Painful ukulele experience on Molokai

Never having been popular or cool growing up, I think I know the feeling that Ryan got. The unspoken uncomfortableness / awkwardness of the situation. Yep. And yeah it sucks and you can sense it. Sorry you had a crap time there. But at least you got a story out of it... not a good one, but it sounds like you made some better memories and better stories after that!
Also, post some pics of this magical leprosy-filled place that most of us will never get to experience if you have a chance. And maybe throw your uke in there too so we can have all of our senses blown.

hilot.h. said:

That's life in the Islands.Sometimes it's cool .Sometimes not.Just walk away,and say F**K 'EM.

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Icelander53 said:

I think that would apply everywhere.

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Yeah, it can happen anywhere. I can remember a few threads like this, both on this forum and on guitar forums. When it happens on the Islands, however, it tends to have its own, unique additional flavor.

That said ... like anywhere else, most Island jams would either be truly open, or state their rules up-front.

I completely understand where you're coming from Ryan, I'm also very sensitive to how I'm treated, especially in a new situation. (I'm a photographer, graphic designer, ex-studio prop man, and son of Jewish Holocaust survivors, so sensitivity certainly runs in my tribe). My recent experience was with a group I joined shortly after starting to play ukulele a year ago.

They're pretty advanced, way beyond me, and I certainly was intimidated all the time, but I hoped being part of it would help me improve, so I kept on. At first I was welcomed, but after a while, one of the guys started giving me the cold shoulder (I manage my parents apartments and over the last 30 years I really learned how to read people) and another harped on me about learning theory. I know I was way behind them, but during a rehearsal he called me out for not keeping up when we went into a new song in a much quicker tempo than we had done before, even though most everyone else also had flubs.

It really hurt and embarrassed me to be singled out like that in front of everybody. For the next few days I really had to evaluate the situation and I realized that I bit off more than I could chew and dropped out. I'm also a member of basic strum and hum group that is all about camaraderie and acceptance, I really enjoy being a part of that.

Just a stray thought about the Molokai incident.

I live in an area which has a seasonal influx adding 40% to the population. Most of the snowbirds are pleasant folk and good seasonal neighbors. However, a significant percentage are downright boors who think of the locale as a "land-locked cruise ship" with everyone as their servants. Makes me appreciate reruns of "Upstairs, Downstairs."

When tourists visit an area there sometimes is an expectation that everyone who lives there full-time loves having tourists around. Just because tourism may be a major industry in a locale doesn't mean everybody loves tourists, especially those tourists who force their way into local events with the expectation that the event and participants are there solely for the tourist's pleasure. While many tourists are pleasant folk, not all are , but instead are demanding, superior-attitude persons who expect everyone who lives in a locale are "hotel staff" there for their convenience. If a couple of folk like that were recent visitors to the jam, it can tend to sour the full-timers on being tourist-tolerant.

When visiting a locale as a tourist, it's important to remember that while you are there for fun, the locals are there working full-time and what little free-time they have they may not want to spend entertaining tourists. On their free time, especially those who deal full-time with tourists for a living, they may not want to "work" with tourists 24/7.

So, when one finds out about unpublicized local events, it's wise to check if it's an intended-for-locals-only (visitors accepted by invitation) or an open tourist event. After all, there's probably a good reason why the event isn't advertised as a tourist-centric event, because even the locals need a break from work, and catering to tourists is work.

Hawaii like any other place in the world has it's good folks and real jerks. I spend 5-6 weeks in Hawaii every summer and have met real hostile locals and also super friendly people. My wife is kamaaina and grew up in the Kalihi area.
I swim at Ala Moana Beach Park and know a few of the older guys who swim there. Some I have known for 15 years. I was sitting on the wall along the beach talking to one of the guys I know. There was Native Hawaiian man sitting nearby playing his uke. We struck up a conversation and he even let me play his instrument. He was really nice and we talked for quite awhile. He actually thought I was a local. I mentioned that we visit every summer to see my wife's family and would be leaving in a few days. He shook my hand and told me to be sure and come by next summer when we visit. He couldn't have been nicer, even complimented me on my playing. I also wandered into an ukulele class at the Asian Market Place and was invited to grab an instrument and sit in.
I also have had situations where I was treated with hostility by locals. Hawaii doesn't own the patent on that. My wife and I moved in 96 to a smaller town not too far from the town I grew up in. I grew up in a very racially diverse city and played with kids of all colors and ethnicities as a youth. The town we moved to is primarily white Yankee/Redneck. My wife's ancestry is Chinese and I'm Italian/Irish. We walked into the local Dairy Bar for lunch shortly after moving there. It was painfully obvious that we were not welcome when we sat down, we were actually given the stink eye from a couple of guys. They were the kind of guys who wear John Deere baseball hats and never remove them when entering an establishment.
What happened to you in Molokai could have happened anywhere. Small communities tend to not want outsiders invading their hangouts. Ignorant people tend to remain that way from cradle to grave. Move on, plenty of other good, friendly people in Hawaii.

I don't believe the OP was thinking about or mentioned anything about race, or income class.

peanuts56 said:

Hawaii like any other place in the world has it's good folks and real jerks. I spend 5-6 weeks in Hawaii every summer and have met real hostile locals and also super friendly people.

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In the movie, Blue Crush, the locals wouldn't let actress Kate Bosworth surf on their waves. Even beat up that actor--I forget his name, but he was the boyfriend in Legally Blonde; he always gets the good boyfriend parts because he has dimples--just because he was on "their" beach, necking with Kate Bosworth. So I know what you write about, peanuts56, really exists over there.

Sorry about the pilikea, Ryan. Musicians like Aldrine Guerrero have received the same treatment on the islands. It's not just associated with Hawai'i, there are many musical jam sessions that have bad feelings toward outsiders. Don't let this stop you from having fun with the 'ukulele. Ric

Bruddah! I just got back from the houseboat and saw this. I told you that you have to wear clothes when you do that! ;-)

Totally different island and set of people, but Gabby Pahinui had a saying, "Come. Listen. Play." Usually, when he had his get togethers, which were on the weekends, the way he had the younger people learn to play slack key guitar was simply by listening. He gave them no books, or pointers. Just listen, and respect the regular players. But all were invited to attend, and play if they could keep up.

I have no idea if this is what applied here. I know he didn't tell people that they weren't welcome to sit in, but not telling anybody the secret key that he was playing in was part of the learning experience.

Reading this thread immediately makes me think of what I have read about Bluegrass..and how fiercely that seems to be protected by it's exponents......sometimes less than pleasantly.....as for Hawaiians having things "stolen"....well is the Ukulele not a rip off (in the nicest possible meaning of the phrase) of the Portugeuse Machete ?

So why do some people get really precious about "their" music.......seems sad to me....music should be about fun,interaction and getting along......this bollox about "you can't play here ..you don't look as if you know what you are doing" is just that ...and I think that the OP has behaved with gravitas and dignity........

and what is a haole ?...and can you eat it ?

CeeJay said:

...and what is a haole ?...and can you eat it ?

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First question: It's the "H" word - cannot answer without being politically incorrect.

Second question: At one time it was common to do so there, but now it's illegal (but is it still practiced???)

SteveZ said:

First question: It's the "H" word - cannot answer without being politically incorrect.

Second question: At one time it was common to do so there, but now it's illegal (but is it still practiced???)

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UhOh ...stepped foot on landmine ...now cannot take it off....forgot about 2nd part of your answer ......Captain cook and all that (though that was supposed to be a misunderstanding...quite a large on though I would say , but still all forgive and forget eh what ?!!) Cool Beans and LOLs all round.......Mines a double Mr Potato

......yerssssssssssss.....I think may be getting the drift on the "H" word.....hmmmmmmmmm.......

CeeJay said:

Reading this thread immediately makes me think of what I have read about Bluegrass..and how fiercely that seems to be protected by it's exponents......sometimes less than pleasantly

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That is very true, some of the old timers can be jack-asses if you try anything they consider nontraditional. Even (and sometimes especially) from some of the more famous ones.

I think that it is common for people to think that other people who have the same interests are loving and inclusive. Kind of like we are all brothers and sisters in ukulele. I've seen it in other endeavors as well. But that isn't the case all the time. I found a local group that has made it pretty clear to me that they aren't interested in expanding. They actually call themselves and exclusive ukulele club. I do not take it personal and I don't think anyone who is not included in any group should. They are probably all friends and do it on a regular basis. They know each other. To me it is like you are sitting in a restaurant with a bunch of friends, and some stranger wants to sit down with you. Sometimes it is just an exclusive group. So I wouldn't feel bad about it. Just say, "that's cool", and enjoy the day.

CeeJay said:

Reading this thread immediately makes me think of what I have read about Bluegrass..and how fiercely that seems to be protected by it's exponents......sometimes less than pleasantly.....as for Hawaiians having things "stolen"....well is the Ukulele not a rip off (in the nicest possible meaning of the phrase) of the Portugeuse Machete ?

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From my experience with bluegrass musicians, there is a lot of pride and tradition that goes into it. "True" bluegrass players stick with traditional instrumentation and style, and you have to prove yourself prior to even being allowed to sit in on a jam. So, for someone like myself that plays an electric-upright bass, while I could easily hang in a bluegrass setting, it would be completely out of place and frowned upon, maybe to the point of being seen as a sign of disrespect to their musical tradition. So, to approach something with respect for the genre first and foremost is needed.

And it's not just bluegrass. I regularly play with a folk singer, and brought my electric-upright to a folk festival. The amount of sneers and looks I got for even defiling the stage with that instrument was crazy. And yet, after hearing me play, they were all smiles. Go figure.

I'm assuming the same could be with this ukulele group that we're discussing. There is a difference here (I play a mean uke, but I know little to nothing on the Hawaiian aspects of the music) in terms of style and genre, and I'm sure the people in that group are very proud of the heritage and tradition of their music (esp since the OP mentioned showing up to the gathering was more as a sign of respect).

It happens, and the OP handled it amazingly well.

CeeJay said:

Reading this thread immediately makes me think of what I have read about Bluegrass..and how fiercely that seems to be protected by it's exponents......sometimes less than pleasantly.....as for Hawaiians having things "stolen"....well is the Ukulele not a rip off (in the nicest possible meaning of the phrase) of the Portugeuse Machete ?

So why do some people get really precious about "their" music.......seems sad to me....music should be about fun,interaction and getting along......this bollox about "you can't play here ..you don't look as if you know what you are doing" is just that ...and I think that the OP has behaved with gravitas and dignity........

and what is a haole ?...and can you eat it ?

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"Haole" means, literally, "foreigner." Now it's applied to Caucasians. Whether it's meant as derogatory depends on who's speaking, and how they are speaking. (Ethnic inter-relations are ... different there. Hard to describe.)

As for losses ... Hawai'ians also lost a large part of their population to Western diseases, and never quite recovered from that loss. At one point, all of their cultural traditions and language were criminalized. They lost their sovereignty and their land. No matter where you are, people tend not to LOL-and-forget such things.

Despite all of that, Hawai'i is far from being a hotbed of hostility and conflict. Still, like everywhere else where humans are found, all attitudes, positive and negative, are present.

hmmm....too bad, as for me, I would just sit there and enjoy their playing. If they wanted me to join I would join.....no real biggie, you are in Hawaii!!!

Roselynne said:

"Haole" means, literally, "foreigner." Now it's applied to Caucasians. Whether it's meant as derogatory depends on who's speaking, and how they are speaking. (Ethnic inter-relations are ... different there. Hard to describe.)

As for losses ... Hawai'ians also lost a large part of their population to Western diseases, and never quite recovered from that loss. At one point, all of their cultural traditions and language were criminalized. They lost their sovereignty and their land. No matter where you are, people tend not to LOL-and-forget such things.

Despite all of that, Hawai'i is far from being a hotbed of hostility and conflict. Still, like everywhere else where humans are found, all attitudes, positive and negative, are present.

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IF the word "Haole" can be used in a derogatory manner then it should not be acceptable in any use ..if it can be used like a certain "N" word that most of europe ..well western europe at least has consigned to the bin of shame I see no good use for it .....

History is for the History Channel and this is a Ukelele Forum .

I made the off the cuff comments about Captain Cook lightly and tongue in cheek as a resident from near Whitby and not all wishing to fall out ...

I still maintain my point about Ukelele being a ripped off Machete... Braguina....

@One Bad Monkey .. your point is well made and to me illustrates the oddness of human beings who are like minded and yet so intransigent ....and bluegrass Tradition ...well ..again it is another rip off....U K, Irish (Eire) and a smidge of African -American music (if my source is correct !)...well rip off is a bit of an emotive phrase ....lets say adaptation .....good job those transplanted Brits were okay about mucking about with their tunes wasn't it .....? Wahay :music::nana: