The grade of Koa and the effect on the sound

Well I saw some factory solid Koa tenors price around USD600 (and seem really well-constructed), and wonder how much does the quality really differ from those with fancy looking Koa with premium price.

what brand of ukes are you talking about....a 600.00 Koa uke may not be built with Hawaiian Koa...but Acacia...which may not make a difference in tone/sound but how the uke is built will be the most important in uke at this price....

some of these factory ukes sound nice...but many still want a Hawaiian Koa production(factory) uke built in Hawaii...

my 2 cents
 
what brand of ukes are you talking about....a 600.00 Koa uke may not be built with Hawaiian Koa...but Acacia...which may not make a difference in tone/sound but how the uke is built will be the most important in uke at this price....

some of these factory ukes sound nice...but many still want a Hawaiian Koa production(factory) uke built in Hawaii...

my 2 cents

Good point. More than one person has assumed acacia=koa. They don't realize that koa is only one kind of acacia; most acacia is not koa.
 
It can be really easy to overthink this stuff. Koa is beautiful and sounds great. Plain koa and figured koa. There may be some difference in sound that scientists could determine but it's not something I have ever noticed. I also love how mahogany sounds. Every instrument is unique and I have found that I get the best sound by learning how to play that particular ukulele. I take the time to find the sweet spots and what attack and strumming techniques bring out that pretty sound.
 
since you are a newbie to the uke world.... wood patterns or koa grades would not be much good to you except asthetically, there are other factors that apply as builder and design... you wont be able to distinguish the minimum difference anyways concentrate on buying a nice sounding uke that you like and if it feels comfortable...my motto is...Try before you Buy... and no buy with the Eyes
I am sure even some ukers who have played for years cannot even tell the difference...No one knows how a uke will sound until the strings are on for the the first strum...even the builder due the
many variations in the building process....Good Luck and Happy Strummings...
 
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try before you buy... #totallyagree!

The most consistent ukulele [same model/same strings] come from Kamaka, imho<caveat - I have not demo'd two custom models like Ko'o'aus or DeVines or MooreBettahs or Hives etc.>. I sampled two K1TP [Kanilea 1 Tenor Premiums] and the sound was very different as was the koa and the look of the wood. The one I bought was super bright [almost KoAloha bright] and the other one was more warm.
 
Originally Posted by hawaii 50

what brand of ukes are you talking about....a 600.00 Koa uke may not be built with Hawaiian Koa...but Acacia...which may not make a difference in tone/sound but how the uke is built will be the most important in uke at this price....

some of these factory ukes sound nice...but many still want a Hawaiian Koa production(factory) uke built in Hawaii...

my 2 cents

Well there are some relatively unknown Asian brands (eg. Uluru, A'ama), Martin TK1 & Kelii within the USD600 price range. But yes, luthiery is a big concern. I 've got an Kala acacia travel concert it is real nice so far.:eek:

Will save my bucks for a Hawaiian Koa/ custom built tenor when I learn fingerstyle in future.
 
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I have the opportunity to purchase a beautiful "curley koa" at a very modest price. It is made in Indonesia so I suspect it is another acacia than Koa. What kind of acacia available to the Indonesians might this be. The uke is highly figured.

One poster indicated that Curley Koa is rare. I understand Koa is very common in Hawaii. What size/age of tree is harvested and what environmental conditions favor high grade decorative curley koa? What size/age of tree is harvested and what environmental conditions favor plain tonal guality Koa?

what brand of ukes are you talking about....a 600.00 Koa uke may not be built with Hawaiian Koa...but Acacia...which may not make a difference in tone/sound but how the uke is built will be the most important in uke at this price....

some of these factory ukes sound nice...but many still want a Hawaiian Koa production(factory) uke built in Hawaii...

my 2 cents
The CF Martin Co. standards of craftsmanship are Ne Plus Ultra whether made in Nazareth or Mexico.
 
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I have the opportunity to purchase a beautiful "curley koa" at a very modest price. It is made in Indonesia so I suspect it is another acacia than Koa. What kind of acacia available to the Indonesians might this be. The uke is highly figured.

One poster indicated that Curley Koa is rare. I understand Koa is very common in Hawaii. What size/age of tree is harvested and what environmental conditions favor high grade decorative curley koa? What size/age of tree is harvested and what environmental conditions favor plain tonal guality Koa?


I think all Koa is called Acacia Koa....

but to be called Koa...it has to be grown in Hawaii.....many other types of Acacia Koa come from many countries....Indonesia,Australia....
most of the Koa used in Hawaii are from fallen trees...not sure they harvest Koa anymore....but I am guessing....

my 2 cents
 
Pretty sure curly koa comes from trees that have grown under stress, such as growing out from the side of a mountain. I imagine "tension" and/or "torsion" would be better adjectives.
 
While koa is genetically disposed to being curly, only a small percentage of trees have a good degree of curl. The prettiest stuff will be grown at elevations higher than 6000 feet.
 
Hawaii 50...not quite.

There are dozens and dozens of Acacias around the world; do a Google search. The one native to the Hawiian islands is "Acacia koa", but it could be grown elsewhere if anyone wanted to. We have several Acacias here in my area, Santa Cruz, and the one of note for me is Acacia melanoxylon...aka black Acacia which came to California from Southern Australia and/or Tasmania where it's called Tasmanian blackwood.

Acacias grow quite quickly; the black Acacias typically have a life span of 75 to 100 years, and they grow quite large. I have about a ton of log quarter sections from a tree that was about 38" in diameter when it was cut down (to keep it from falling on house). Sometimes the black Acacia develops nice curl, but usually it's pretty straight but nicely striated. I find it to be a bit harder and more like Indian rosewood than a lot of the Acacia koa I've had, but that does vary quite a bit.

One acacia known as "shittem" (yes, the real name) was the wood from which the Ark of the Covenant was made...that chest supposedly currently residing at a monastery on an island in Ethiopia. Yeah, look that up, too...fascinating.
 
I'd be very interested to find out what a solid chunk of figured Tassie Blackwood would cost, purely for the purposes of having a 6 string solid body electric built. One good thing about solid electrics, you can use anything, the type of wood makes exactly 0% difference to the sound.

Really? Put premium electrics and bits in a cheap strat and it wont sound premium. Not knocking your comment but as a guitarist since a teen i think in a guitar forum this comment would make a never ending thread.

Eg, Les Paul, mahogany & maple cap. Why bother?

Strat, alder. Cheaper ones can be basswood. Why waste alder?

SG, mahogany, why not a cheaper wood?

etc etc.
 
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I am sadly amused by Big Kahuna's utterly incorrect assessment of what goes into a good electric guitar. That is ignorance at it's height. Pickups are just windows into the sound and soul of an electric guitar. Wood and construction style are the heart of these instruments. I have a lot of experience in this, by the way, having been directly involved in making at least 4,500 solid and semi-hollow amplified instruments as well as making acoustic ukes and guitars.
 
Tonewood makes no difference to the sound of a solid body electric guitar. Construction does. Scale length does. Pickups do. Bridge design does. The actual wood that is used in the manufacture of a solid body electric guitar body, neck and fingerboard, makes absolutely zero difference to the sound. I don't care how many guitars you've built Rick, the opposite viewpoint to your own is also held by people who have built considerably more, collectively. You might want to google the many videos and discussions on the subject.
 
Here, I'll do some of the work for you:



This is just one of many, and there are also several which discuss the scientific reasoning behind this. There are a handful of videos by people claiming that tonewood does affect the sound, but these are almost exclusively people with a financial interest in getting the suckers to believe it.

Uk3player78, you've been playing guitar for 16 years. I've been playing for 37, including a bunch of years in the business, as the guitarist for a large branch of Carlsboro Sound Centres. None of which makes a damn bit of difference, it's irrelevant.

The theory is proven many times over, despite the people who need you to believe it makes a difference, in order to sell their instruments.
 
Nope. I'm not going for it. I've made my Model 1s in mahogany, koa, basswood, and alder as well as ones with a Western red cedar body core with various caps for tops and backs. They all sound a bit different with exactly the same pickups and electronics in them. One outstanding version had Brazilian rosewood for top and back over cedar; it was my favorite of all of them. Tap tones differ in frequency and Q, and thus the effect on the strings changes. If pressed to describe the plugged in tone of my "featherweight" models...redwood or cedar body core...as opposed to my mahogany ones, I'd say they are a little more open and acoustic sounding...maybe more transparency in the upper mids and highs.

Les Paul was adamant about having the Gibson Les Paul Standards be mahogany with a maple top and having the Les Paul Customs ("Black Beauties") be all mahogany, though in the dreaded Norlin years, Gibson cheated and just painted maple topped ones black. Les and I talked about this when I visited him in Mawah when I was (for a brief time) Gibson's technical rep to Les.

A mahogany bodied Strat does not sound like an ash or basswood one. Basswood and alder sound close. At Westwood Music, we were putting together spruce bodied Strats and Teles. They did not sound like factory instruments.

The two major sonic issues with different woods are attack and sustain. Other effects are in the frequency response and susceptibility to going into feedback easily.

All the same issues that affect just how the strings vibrate (it's a mechanical feedback loop from strings to neck and body and back to strings) that are present in acoustic instruments are there in solid and semi-hollow body instruments. In short, to a great degree the strings vibration signature is determined by what they're attached to. The body and neck act as a kind of 3D tone control on the strings affecting both frequency response and phase response. At the highest level of understanding acoustics and the physics of stringed instruments, the same rules apply all the way across with the possible exception of whether the instrument is connected to a Helmholz resonator or not. I've been through this with everyone from Prof. Michael Kasha, to one of the top harpsichord makers in Paris (Hubbard Atelier) to some of the best minds in music physics research at Stanford, and everyone understands that if you change what's at the end of the strings, the strings' vibration pattern will change. This even gets down to the size of frets and the material the fingerboard is made of. Any decent Strat player knows that a maple 'board sounds different from a rosewood 'board, for instance.

And back to Les Pauls, Paul Reed Smith believes that the early maple topped mahogany bodied instruments sound better because the glue joint was hot hide glue...known to be very hard, very thin (it shrinks as it dries, literally pulling the wood tighter in the joint), and acoustically transparent...as opposed to the more modern ones...Titebond...kind of like a thin (but not as thin) layer of semi-hard rubber.

If all wood sounded the same in solid body guitars, then it would all sound the same in acoustic instruments. And it doesn't. Same rules, just different ways of exciting the air.
 
The sheer amount of ridiculous statements in that post has given me a headache. You carry on spouting this nonsense if you want to, there are obviously enough gullible idiots who think you're the oracle to keep your order book full.
 
My, my there is certainly a lot of lively exchange here. I don't think anyone here is wrong, we're not here to make each other wrong. As far as who I'll listen to about tonewoods, I beleive a guy who has had his hand in 4500 instruments, and is still doing it. It's silly to discount any real evidence or proof.
 
To the tone deaf there is no difference among woods or anything else that guitars, basses, or ukes are made from.

I rest my case.
 
Tonewood makes no difference to the sound of a solid body electric guitar. Construction does. Scale length does. Pickups do. Bridge design does. The actual wood that is used in the manufacture of a solid body electric guitar body, neck and fingerboard, makes absolutely zero difference to the sound. I don't care how many guitars you've built Rick, the opposite viewpoint to your own is also held by people who have built considerably more, collectively. You might want to google the many videos and discussions on the subject.

I am no ukulele expert. I only have 2 good ones, a Mya Moe and a Collings. I do have experience playing and comparing acoustic guitars extremely similar in design, build and woods. Many pre-war Martins and copies of them. The variance in acoustic instruments is very noticeable. Of course we are talking solid body electric in a uke forum. I have little experience in the electric world. It should be easy for you to quantify this with a simple test. Buy two necks, pickups and wiring components. No switches or pots to keep it simple. Then cut out and route your favorite electric, i.e. Les Paul or Tele or Strat. One from Basswood and one from Ebony. Bolt on the necks and string up. I am not a luthier but something tells me they wouldn't sound identical. It would be interesting to hear your results. If they sound the same then lots of manufacturers could build cheap import guitars with cheap woods and they would sound just like the hand built models people spend so much money on.
 
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