When does One plus Two equal Two?

Just read what I wrote and I'm not sure if it makes any sense. What I meant, Jim, is that the way you did it - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 with the bold on 1, 3, 5 and 7 does indeed work, but for me to get it up to any kind of tempo, my mind will make that into 1& 2& 3& 4&a - and to go super fast, 1-2-3-4&a.... And then I can fly. It is a trick to take the subdivisions of the beats and distill it down into something that can go really fast.

In a related matter - I had a band director tell me that little word rhythms were bad for band kids. If you are doing a measure of sixteenth notes, you should count it as 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a... And that my my trick of saying Al-a-ba-ma... was teaching them wrong.

I disagree for a few reasons. First, I don't just teach Alabama - I also show them how the syllables fit in with the counts. Second, you can go wicked fast if you do it that way. Third, my students who compete usually place high, meaning they can fly through 16th notes.

And when you get right down to it, the judge doesn't know what you are thinking. They are just amazed at how fast you can go through it, and how well you can count.

When it comes to performing, you do what works for you. The listener won't know how you arrived at your performance, but they will hear it and judge. The longer I teach, the more I understand that some things need to be flexible.
 
Hey Jim, I was wondering when you might show up. The cut and paste you show is just what I mean by the 2 = 3 business. I couldn't figure out how to express it.

When I hear the Baltic 9/8 styles my ears hear triples. When I watch these same vidieos I see many two strokes and hammer-ons. While I acknowledge that anyway you can get the notes in is acceptable My counting goes to the strokes of my right hand, as a means of maintaining a solid rhythm.

I heard too many rhythms in the Brubeck piece for me to keep and accurate count. The slip jigs gave me no problem and had what I would characterize as a rock solid rhythm.
 
I donno what you're all trying to figure out, but I think I agree with VegasGeorge. All the notes/rests in a measure have to add up to the beats specified in the time signature, and that's the way it is!

However, I will add that I really enjoyed the Balkan Gypsy Folk music. Those guys are on fire! You see the girls and the old lady and the baby all gettin' down! THAT'S the way most music should be, I think. FUN! PARTEE! And no sheet music--play it or dance.

Really made my afternoon--Thanks! :eek:ld:
 
Ukejenny, I just gave this fellow a listen again and I think it's a little beyond me. My ears can't really grasp a way of counting accurately at that speed. By the way, although I do count 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a... I also use methods like your "Alabama" to teach, and I agree with you that if it sounds good, it is good.
 
Ukejenny, I just gave this fellow a listen again and I think it's a little beyond me. My ears can't really grasp a way of counting accurately at that speed. By the way, although I do count 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a... I also use methods like your "Alabama" to teach, and I agree with you that if it sounds good, it is good.

Yes, the little tricks help, but it is good to know the real theory underneath them. We are doing a piece now entitled Mambo Loco, it is a movement from Hershen's Divermento for Symphonic Band. Wicked fun to play, but I had to start out so slow, and now can groove at any speed. So many meters going on, juxtaposed against one another at times. Wild stuff! Here's a link.

http://grooveshark.com/s/III+Mambo+Loco/4xAzln?src=5
 
Ukejenny, I just gave this fellow a listen again and I think it's a little beyond me. My ears can't really grasp a way of counting accurately at that speed. By the way, although I do count 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a... I also use methods like your "Alabama" to teach, and I agree with you that if it sounds good, it is good.
Jim do you really sub-vocalize when you count? Would someone provide a link to the "Alabama" methods please.
 
If I'm trying to figure out an unfamiliar syncopation, I will "sub-vocalise", but not while I'm playing.
I believe Ukejenny meant that she uses familiar words like "Alabama", to illustrate the rhythm of a piece much as clawhammer banjo players often use "bum-ditty" or "bumpa-ditty" to illustrate a rhythm or guitar players might illustrate a strum rhythm with "boom-chick" or "boom-chicka" or a tuba player might say "oom-pah". Is that called "onomatopoeia"?

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth Ukejenny. Please correct me if that's not what you meant.
 
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Jim do you really sub-vocalize when you count? Would someone provide a link to the "Alabama" methods please.

I don't know if it is a real method, but when you are counting rhythms quickly, it helps to sometimes use words instead of numbers and subdivisions.

rhythms.jpg

Line four would be 1& rest& 3e&a 4. To replace it with words I'd use 1& rest& Alabama 4. Just one small difference.

Line five would be Alabama Alabama 3& 4.

Line six would be Alabama 2& Alabama 4.

This type of thing really helps when you have lots of rhythms in a row. 8th and 16th combinations and such - triplets.
 

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Starting in measure 13,

1&2&3&Alabama 1&AlabamaAlabama4& Blackberry2&BlackberryAlabama

Measure 16 -
1&BlackberryButterscotch4& AlabamaButterscotchBlackberryAlabama Rest&a2&Alabam_Alabama.

That's just the way I would count those rhythms if I were playing through a piece of music. There are no pitches, really in these exercises, they are all on the C space, but this is a quick and easy way to sight read through music or nail down the rhythms quickly.

So, after 8th notes, 1&2&3&4& you start using words.

four sixteenths are Alabama, or Mississippi, or Guacamole - anything with four syllables.

An 8th note with 2 16ths would be blackberry Reverse that to 2 16th's and an 8th and it is butterscotch

Triplets would be buffalo.... buffalo buffalo buffalo....
 
If I'm trying to figure out an unfamiliar syncopation, I will "sub-vocalise", but not while I'm playing.
I believe Ukejenny meant that she uses familiar words like "Alabama", to illustrate the rhythm of a piece much as clawhammer banjo players often use "bum-ditty" or "bumpa-ditty" to illustrate a rhythm or guitar players might illustrate a strum rhythm with "boom-chick" or "boom-chicka" or a tuba player might say "oom-pah". Is that called "onomatopoeia"?

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth Ukejenny. Please correct me if that's not what you meant.

No, that's it!!!! BumDitty would be, for me, Blackberry!
 
Jenny can you re-post the rhythm sheet as an attachment please? It came up to blurry to read. I usually pronounce Alabama as three syllables.
 
View attachment 73160

Starting in measure 13,

1&2&3&Alabama 1&AlabamaAlabama4& Blackberry2&BlackberryAlabama

Measure 16 -
1&BlackberryButterscotch4& AlabamaButterscotchBlackberryAlabama Rest&a2&Alabam_Alabama.

That's just the way I would count those rhythms if I were playing through a piece of music. There are no pitches, really in these exercises, they are all on the C space, but this is a quick and easy way to sight read through music or nail down the rhythms quickly.

So, after 8th notes, 1&2&3&4& you start using words.

four sixteenths are Alabama, or Mississippi, or Guacamole - anything with four syllables.

An 8th note with 2 16ths would be blackberry Reverse that to 2 16th's and an 8th and it is butterscotch

Triplets would be buffalo.... buffalo buffalo buffalo....

Bloody hell....I'm not sure why ...but I'm all hungry now!!!!

And I want a Sour Mash Whiskey !!!
 
I need to make you a whiskey ginger, then.

I'm having a Whiskey (Scotch I have no JD at the present :mad:) with Twisted Lemon Juice at the moment..it is lemon juice with an infusion of Chillies and Cayenne pepper......oootcher -- as we say .

Whiskey Ginger sounds good ....go on give us the recipe ??please !!
 
I also have a way of working out runs using dotted rhythms. For a dotted 8th/16th rhythm, I say dayto dayto dayto
And for a 16th/dotted 8th rhythm we say butterrrrrrr butterrrrrr - putting the emphasis on the errrrr.
 
I also have a way of working out runs using dotted rhythms. For a dotted 8th/16th rhythm, I say dayto dayto dayto
And for a 16th/dotted 8th rhythm we say butterrrrrrr butterrrrrr - putting the emphasis on the errrrr.
Oh deary me! I was doing so well too. Its time for a Mitchners cinnamon flavored whiskey. Please elaborate on what your saying here Jenny. Your attachment took but the link was clearer. I say Alabam' unless of course the meter dictates otherwise.
 
Zoltán Kodaly came up with a method of teaching music that included Rhythm syllables much as Jenny uses. This was taught in Ontario Teachers' Colleges in the sixties and perhaps still is.

quarter note - ta
eighth note - ti
two eighth notes - ti ti
triplet - triple-ti
four sixteenth notes - tafatifi
dotted eight and sixteenth - teemri

There were others, but these come to mind right now. You could Google Zoltán Kodaly, if you're interested.
 
The official drink for counting complex rhythms..... The Whiskey Ginger.

Take a highball and fill it with ice. Put a jigger of whiskey in there. Top it off with ginger ale. Take a large lime wedge - about a fourth of a lime - and squeeze it on top. Place the wedge down in the glass.

Happy Counting! Now, paradiddle, paradiddle, paradiddle, flamaque, flamaque, flamadiddle.........
 
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