good_uke_boy
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Strange thread regarding Rick Turner Guitar Company
- Thread starter bearbike137
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SteveZ
Well-known member
Why is this situation so charged? This has gotten to sound like those times when a sound-bite news report gets whipsawed into he-said/she-said stuff, folk decide guilt not knowing anything exceot an abbreviated story written to favor one opinion, no personal-repeat-personal knowledge of at least most of the facts - but that's what ruins lives and reputations.
The last time I checked, neither party with a financial interest in this situation has any obligation to discuss the matter with a bunch of folk on an internet forum, especially when a lot of those folk take great pains to maintain anonymity. The "musical" factor was lost a long time ago and now it's become nasty gossip.
The folk who are directly involved in this situation are adults. They should know how to handle the situation as adults. Turning this into a "trial by media" is ludicrous, especially one which goes after the reputations and integrity of both of the parties involved.
An earlier poster chided about the apparent demise of the "aloha spirit." Boy, that's an understatement when we're now into well over 100 posts, many of which seem like nothing more than gossip-mongering eager to condemn without fact. If I were an instrument vendor, this string would tell me with whom I would avoid any future business transaction if only to avoid future problems.
The last time I checked, neither party with a financial interest in this situation has any obligation to discuss the matter with a bunch of folk on an internet forum, especially when a lot of those folk take great pains to maintain anonymity. The "musical" factor was lost a long time ago and now it's become nasty gossip.
The folk who are directly involved in this situation are adults. They should know how to handle the situation as adults. Turning this into a "trial by media" is ludicrous, especially one which goes after the reputations and integrity of both of the parties involved.
An earlier poster chided about the apparent demise of the "aloha spirit." Boy, that's an understatement when we're now into well over 100 posts, many of which seem like nothing more than gossip-mongering eager to condemn without fact. If I were an instrument vendor, this string would tell me with whom I would avoid any future business transaction if only to avoid future problems.
bennyhana22
Well-known member
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Ukulele Eddie
Well-known member
If you haven't, read just the OP's posts in the other forum. In addition to the the invoice, there are pics of the loaner guitar Rick Sent him and there was a communication from the company (which was removed because it's not allowed; he apologized for doing that but summarizes the email). Despite the entire experience he describes, his posts continue to be even keeled and he continued to hope to receive the custom product he placed a deposit on, even still praising Rick's artisan talents.
In my $0.02, how he conducted himself (never got defensive, never went on the attack, continued to be open to satisfactory outcome, etc.) despite numerous people assuming him to be a liar, like some did here, has been exemplary and many of us could learn a lesson or three from his approach.
It takes a years to build a reputation like Rick has built. But it can be lost so very quickly. And while it's Rick's right to ignore the thread, I believe doing so will tarnish the brand he has spent many years building. If -- and I do say 'if' -- he has screwed up, it's better to address it and acknowledge what steps he will take to mitigate it happening again. Rick has shared his perspective quite emphatically on many far less important issues than this thread. The fact that he hasn't responded, despite the thread being brought to the company's attention, seems very curious to me.
wow... Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas...
+1. Thanks, Tudorp!
Freedom of speech is one of our most powerful rights. But, as Sheldon told Penny, "with great power comes great responsibility". Or was that from a Marvel comic?
Getting down off the soapbox and back to the comics.
Getting down off the soapbox and back to the comics.
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Aloha Ben...
You Have a Merry Christmas too.. Stan
OP
OP
bearbike137
Well-known member
Rick's Turner's personal guitar at 14:09, now allegedly in the hands of the OP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5D0BThSZIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5D0BThSZIk
coolkayaker1
Well-known member
You must have missed it, SteveZ. One of the involved "adults" posted on UU about his experience and that thread was closed.
So, no one here went looking.
SteveZ
Well-known member
Didn't miss it. Just thought it was a thread properly closed as inappropriate. All of this "Where's Rick?" stuff is what's off. I don't know Rick or the OP. If I was the target of a complaint concerning a private transaction, I wouldn't "defend myself" on an internet forum to the curious. That just fuels a bad situation, making resolution even more difficult. There are systems in place for such private complaints, and deciding not to utilize those systems and instead rely on the "court of public opinion" is, in my humble opinion, poor judgment.
It would not surprise me if the "charged" party has been advised by counsel to ignore the internet "charges" and advised not to respond in kind. Again, internet defamation and such, including that by supporters, is no light-hearted matter. Private transactions are just that - private. Opening a transaction up for public support or comment, especially when the result (unintended or not) could be damaging to a professional reputation, is rarely wise.
To The Moderators - is this really "Uke Talk? or, if to continue, better contained in "General Discussion" ?
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Pukulele Pete
Well-known member
Come on Rick , say this guy is full of s** or say it is true and we have resolved the problem. Simple.
I just watched the youtube video and wow , that Compass Rose Guitar seems to be something worth waiting for.
I just watched the youtube video and wow , that Compass Rose Guitar seems to be something worth waiting for.
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+1 Steve.............
Teek
Well-known member
For anybody interested in the whole soap opera, who are only reading this thread, you need to go read the 30 pages at TGP to get a better view. It would be some effort and bother to do this if it wasn't real. The OP has been calm and factual in both forums, and turned to the forums Rick is a member of to push him into taking some action. I used to do a lot of commissioned oil paintings and also spec work; sometimes the commission ends up being problematic and the process grinds to a halt. The problem really being discussed is lack of honest communication by Renaissance Guitars, not Rick's talent or long history in the guitar world.
Currently (as of last night) it seems the OP has been delivered a gorgeous but used guitar, supposedly Rick's own to use in the "interim" which suggests that it is a loaner until the commissioned guitar is sent. On first look it seems like a nice solution for the moment, but now the OP is actually responsible for a guitar that isn't his in addition to being out $2,100, and RT can tell the credit card company that a product was delivered. The insurance quote on the invoice is $6K (which seems high for scuffed and used), which is a lot for which to be responsible. The OP wasn't asked if this was acceptable as again there was no communication as to the nature of the guitar, only that one was being sent, four days after the credit card company did a charge back, so it is a poor solution. It's been suggested that if the OP finds that guitar a sufficiently acceptable instrument for his money that he just negotiate to buy the guitar outright for his deposit (which might be Rick's intention), and soon (but how to do that with no reliable communication from the builder's end?). Then all involved can theoretically move forward.
In light of what has been discussed by other posters on TGP forum, the OP isn't the only one who has had problems with RT but nobody's perfect and sh*t happens to everybody, even when intentions are good. As for the guitar being RT's "personal" guitar, I would imagine he would have 20-30 pulled off the line that he has kept aside over the years, for personal use and investment; and that this is just one of the above. However that is just my guess, as I always kept my "best" bronzes in an edition aside for myself.
I think the OP's guitar build fell through the cracks, that there was probably honest intention to get it built, and then stuff just kept getting in the way (including more interesting or profitable or higher cachet work), until there was a point where it would have to be admitted that it was never started in the first place, which would look bad, and then that snowball kept rolling. It happens. If it was me on the seller's end I'd either refund with interest or give the OP a choice of other instruments I had in hand that were worth the original full commission price for only the original down payment, and call it square. I would/should have a happy customer for life. It would IMHO be the proper amends.
I am only summarizing since I read the entire TGP thread (and hope I got it all right and wish I hadn't since I just got the new Stephen King novel to read and could have read that instead). and adding personal observations. So please don't flame me.
Currently (as of last night) it seems the OP has been delivered a gorgeous but used guitar, supposedly Rick's own to use in the "interim" which suggests that it is a loaner until the commissioned guitar is sent. On first look it seems like a nice solution for the moment, but now the OP is actually responsible for a guitar that isn't his in addition to being out $2,100, and RT can tell the credit card company that a product was delivered. The insurance quote on the invoice is $6K (which seems high for scuffed and used), which is a lot for which to be responsible. The OP wasn't asked if this was acceptable as again there was no communication as to the nature of the guitar, only that one was being sent, four days after the credit card company did a charge back, so it is a poor solution. It's been suggested that if the OP finds that guitar a sufficiently acceptable instrument for his money that he just negotiate to buy the guitar outright for his deposit (which might be Rick's intention), and soon (but how to do that with no reliable communication from the builder's end?). Then all involved can theoretically move forward.
In light of what has been discussed by other posters on TGP forum, the OP isn't the only one who has had problems with RT but nobody's perfect and sh*t happens to everybody, even when intentions are good. As for the guitar being RT's "personal" guitar, I would imagine he would have 20-30 pulled off the line that he has kept aside over the years, for personal use and investment; and that this is just one of the above. However that is just my guess, as I always kept my "best" bronzes in an edition aside for myself.
I think the OP's guitar build fell through the cracks, that there was probably honest intention to get it built, and then stuff just kept getting in the way (including more interesting or profitable or higher cachet work), until there was a point where it would have to be admitted that it was never started in the first place, which would look bad, and then that snowball kept rolling. It happens. If it was me on the seller's end I'd either refund with interest or give the OP a choice of other instruments I had in hand that were worth the original full commission price for only the original down payment, and call it square. I would/should have a happy customer for life. It would IMHO be the proper amends.
I am only summarizing since I read the entire TGP thread (and hope I got it all right and wish I hadn't since I just got the new Stephen King novel to read and could have read that instead). and adding personal observations. So please don't flame me.
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Pukulele Pete
Well-known member
You have to admit that this has been a very interesting thread to read , . . . .
The Big Kahuna
Well-known member
Thanks for that. You can never have too much speculation...apparently.
DPO
Well-known member
OP
OP
bearbike137
Well-known member
Why do the people that hate and disdain this thread keep reading it?
Pukulele Pete
Well-known member
This is the most interesting reading here in months.
This appears to be a thread full of people either denying that this incident ever happened, or trying to tell the OP how to feel about the fact that he's been stiffed on his guitar order for an extended period of time. It's a bit confusing, and it certainly isn't getting us anywhere.
Ukulele Eddie
Well-known member
and,
**** this thread, and **** a bunch of people who should know better. SteveZ is the only person showing some class so far.
If you're so annoyed by this thread, rather than being so negative/sarcastic, why not just ignore it? Your comments are almost exclusively focused on attacking/deriding others an and nothing to do with the situation that is the thread's topic. From the lack of specifics in your responses, it seems to me you haven't even read the other posts, including the documentation of the situation. It's fine if you have read them and remain skeptical, but maybe you can do so without being derisive.
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