People cycling out of UU

I wrote a paper in graduate school that was predicated on the notion that anger is not a feeling, but rather a strategy or manipulation designed to change behavior of others.

Pretty much all "feelings" can be attributed to reactions to events that are beyond our control. Sadness comes from a sense of loss. Fear from perception of impending doom. Love from a sense of uniquely rewarding affiliation. Joy from strong satisfaction with what is going on around you.

Strangely enough, none of these natural feelings are unique to humans. Both research and common observation have clearly demonstrated that nearly all but the simpler organisms demonstrate sadness, fear, joy and love. What those same animals don't demonstrate is anger (snarling tigers and grizzly bears are not angry, they are hungry). And, perhaps that is because anger requires a cognitive process where the behavior of others is evaluated and found to be unnacceptable; thereby triggering an over the top reaction that has as its primary reason for being; to get the other person to change their behavior. Just ask yourself if there was ever a time that you got angry and could not relate it to the unnacceptable behavior of others (or yourself as in hitting your finger while trying to drive a nail or chopping onions).

So, yes, some people get angry during debates, (though most do not.) But, in my view, that anger, when expressed, is is a choice and not a natural feeling. Attempts at manipulation rank pretty low on my scale of acceptable human behavior. There are a lot of things that people might do well to lighten up over, but giving in to manipulative outbursts is not one of them, in my view.

People who see a need to defend their right to use anger as a tactic are likely to see things differently from me. The "ignore" feature is here for a good reason.

I find my view to be opposite to yours entirely. Anger is perfectly natural and derives from the opposite to " Joy from strong satisfaction with what is going on around you."

Anger is not always a tactic , though it can be.

But on a forum it would be quite the opposite for some people who may lose a bit of control over their cognitive process as as the red mist descends.

I am put in mind of "bezerkers" who did use anger as a tactic ,but in a physical sense ...though it would be interesting to see what a vikingr beserker would make of a forum ...LOL

Provided that the anger does not descend into abusive invective and openly insulting language then a free and frank exchange should be possible and

allowed.

Sometimes it really does feel like having to tiptoe on egg shells and then you stare in amazement at some of the lofty and outrageous things that are written by other contributors.



Furthermore , it is often not "anger" that gets one into trouble but the quip or put down to someone else that is either taken too seriously to heart .....I mean at the end of the day these are just conversations.....
 
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It comes in handy from time to time but really, how hard is it to just ignore what someone's written if you don't like it? I mean - this is an internet forum, if we don't like it, we don't have to look. Easy peasy.

Because if someone is a belligerent ass and they trigger my shenpa, it makes me want to post a reply, and I prefer to refrain as much as possible now. If I can see the post I will have read part of it before I realize who it is. You're a reader, you probably read whole blocks of text in a few seconds too. I have around 10 people on my ignore, in fact I added another this week. I sort of hope his ban is permanent but I think it's taken more as a personal merit badge.
 
I put somebody on ignore once. He was a horrible troll. Know what happened? I kept un-ignoring him because I had to see what outrageous thing he had said. He is still on ignore, but he got permanently banned.

Was that the guy about 3 or 4 years back who claimed to know it all and begged people to ask him any question they wanted...???
 
Man is all this talk of ignoring people very Aloha?

To me you get angry when you get hurt feelings. From my perspective its your weakness not mine should you feel the need to ignore or lose control of your emotions and get angry or hurt at things others say.

I do so tire of the Internet tough guy excuse or they must be angry like any can read emotion into text all of a sudden? The answer to the question a few days ago is Yes people do talk to other people in real life as they do here, worse even.

The difference is here being a member of a forum we put our "thoughts and ideas" on the Internet for others to see and react to days, weeks, years later. In real life if we disagree greatly we would likely just not bother with each other. As someone stated "why would you be in my living room?"

Many people have a problem detaching their "thoughts and ideas" from their physical self feeling any attack on a thought or idea they have is personal and only to try to make them look or feel stupid and they get angry. If my ideas or thoughts are attacked and they cannot survive then I had weak thoughts and ideas that deserved to die this only makes me grow. Its been a very longtime Ive allowed wasted emotion on a person whom I never met that didn't physically harm me.

The forum rules of don't be a jerk are so open to interpretation by the moderators. We are all different people me I'm an old school tattoo artist, since the late 80's I have dealt with many different types of people including but in no way limited to the criminal element. I grew up in and around Bridgeport CT. I would expect an older person from a quieter location to think at times I'm quite rough, rude or gruff. They might see me the aggressor and not see that I'm merely reacting to the situation at hand.

Hell in 1990 in Jasper TX I was pulled over (while walking) for not waving to a police officer while looking like I was "not from round here." (long hair and tattoos) In another county I also had a woman at a liquor store throw open the register and yell out that me and my friend can take anything we want. We asked if it was OK if we just shopped as we didn't know what we wanted and Jasper's a dry county it was an hours ride back. Recommended for a job by my friends uncle to only be called hoodlums by a guy who never roams further than Beaumont.

EDIT: Im so long winded but. With the cop in TX it was funny I made jokes about waving at a cop in my hometown getting me thrown in the car and taken for evaluation. We had a laugh. The lady at the liquor store seeing the look of shock on our faces then our laughing while we were asking if it is OK to shop made it funny. Later one night after learning he had been called a hoodlum my buddy was pretty down, jobs were tight in 1990 in Jasper TX. I made a joke about Porky (god was this man who owned a lumber yard HUGE) being dropped by magic into the middle of Father Panik Village in BPT CT and his possible reactions to being out of his element thrown into a real hoodlums realm. My buddy cheered up as we both used to do AAA towing in the area.

Not everyone has had the experience of visiting a very different region than the one they are used to. I could easily say get outside more but its more PC to say I suggest everyone try it.

EDIT: In the best words never really said: Can't we just all get along?

~AL~
 
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I find my view to be opposite to yours entirely. Anger is perfectly natural and derives from the opposite to " Joy from strong satisfaction with what is going on around you."

Anger is not always a tactic , though it can be.

But on a forum it would be quite the opposite for some people who may lose a bit of control over their cognitive process as as the red mist descends.

I am put in mind of "bezerkers" who did use anger as a tactic ,but in a physical sense ...though it would be interesting to see what a vikingr beserker would make of a forum ...LOL

Provided that the anger does not descend into abusive invective and openly insulting language then a free and frank exchange should be possible and

allowed.

Sometimes it really does feel like having to tiptoe on egg shells and then you stare in amazement at some of the lofty and outrageous things that are written by other contributors.



Furthermore , it is often not "anger" that gets one into trouble but the quip or put down to someone else that is either taken too seriously to heart .....I mean at the end of the day these are just conversations.....

Maintaining that anger is perfectly natural ignores the reality that most of our reactions to the world around us are learned. Some people learned early in life that anger is ineffective as a social interaction unless what one is looking for is to intimidate others. In that regard, anger can be effective. But, it is not natural. We are not born with the need to intimidate others. We all learn that and some of us choose to keep it in our bag of tricks. Others make every effort to limit inclinations to intimidate. Unfortunately, all it takes is a general persusal of daily headlines to realize the toll on human lives that is taken when people feel justified in acting out of the anger that they feel is natural and justified for them.
 
Sometimes, when I'm bored, I go all the way back to the beginning of some of the threads to look for names that I know and there just aren't any. I wonder where all those people are now and if are they are still playing ukuleles.

I wrote a comment somewhere about the newbys who are buying expensive ukuleles, and, then, one never hears from them again. I wonder what they do with them if they don't learn to play them. Are they wall hangers now?

I was in another forum where people joined, asked where to find free music and then disappeared. No one ever conversed much, except for our group of old musicians who talked about whatever came into our minds. It was lots of fun for awhile, but it broke up. Ahhh well . . .

The old days are always beautiful and golden. I wonder why they didn't stay that way . . . :eek:ld:
 
Maintaining that anger is perfectly natural ignores the reality that most of our reactions to the world around us are learned. Some people learned early in life that anger is ineffective as a social interaction unless what one is looking for is to intimidate others. In that regard, anger can be effective. But, it is not natural. We are not born with the need to intimidate others. We all learn that and some of us choose to keep it in our bag of tricks. Others make every effort to limit inclinations to intimidate. Unfortunately, all it takes is a general persusal of daily headlines to realize the toll on human lives that is taken when people feel justified in acting out of the anger that they feel is natural and justified for them.

I still totally and utterly and very calmly disagree with you . Anger is a natural emotion. You don't learn how to be angry ...you just become it ...

you do not learn to love,hate or any one of the other "feelings" that we have. Or perhaps I should say that we do not "conciously" learn them.

We do learn what triggers those responses and which are preferable and which are not so desirable. Give me a cake or a Pint of ale I will love you...kick my sandcastle over ..not so much.

Anger is something that can be controlled better by some and not so well by others. Whatever one does with the anger is a learned process , I will give you that ...however , what I maintain is that it is not anger , but assertiveness that causes the problems we do have .

You are asserting a proposition that I take an opposite stance to. Now we both have the right to that assertion , but there are contributors who will not accept that both sides have opinions which are valid .That's when it gets runny !!

But anyhoo this is supposed to be a uke forum not Social Studies Philosophy and Psychology 101 (what does that term 101 actually mean ..we don't use it in the UK?)
 
if you've been banned more than once on UU, then you don't get it. Most people leave but a few continue to come back. I like to push it on certain topics I strongly believe in but haven't been banned...YET! LOL
 
Aloha Nongdam,
Most of these new member trolls are confrontational and like to say they want discussion, which is just a guise for their bad behavior and flaunt their intelligence, um I mean wit, ..you will see them so easily, look for the long meanless threads and posts.... it really tarnishes the UU
there are some old time members who promote this type of behavior and go along and praise them....so sad to see, we who love UU have to see them ruin our beloved
forum....what is wrong with these people who just want to flaunt their wit and post blah blah blah yada yada yada threads with no actual useful content
I see low self esteem and self confidence and being anonymous behind the computer screen that gives them courage.
I used to like the posts where members actually ask questions because they want to know, .not just for discussion and to be more populary known
It was a pleasure to answer and help those, maybe many are not here for that simple reason, make sense?.... aside getting the same questions again and again? I'd would rather help those who ask the same questons over and over if they are sincere to know....get it
to all the trolls, get a life... or simply fade away from UU.... you think we dont know who you are or want you here? Can I say it any clearer
 
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Aloha and love to you, mm stan. I hope your Christmas is very, very nice, and your New Year the very friendliest. May your ukuleles bring forth all the music that you love best.

Keep being your nice, happy self. :eek:ld:
 
I'm still here, I come in to read once in a while. Sometimes I log in to see a photo of a ukulele for sale. There is a few old timers I miss, Also I have not been here as much after MGN passed away, it seems like a piece of UU left with him.
 
I still totally and utterly and very calmly disagree with you . Anger is a natural emotion. You don't learn how to be angry ...you just become it ...

you do not learn to love,hate or any one of the other "feelings" that we have. Or perhaps I should say that we do not "conciously" learn them.

We do learn what triggers those responses and which are preferable and which are not so desirable. Give me a cake or a Pint of ale I will love you...kick my sandcastle over ..not so much.

Anger is something that can be controlled better by some and not so well by others. Whatever one does with the anger is a learned process , I will give you that ...however , what I maintain is that it is not anger , but assertiveness that causes the problems we do have .

You are asserting a proposition that I take an opposite stance to. Now we both have the right to that assertion , but there are contributors who will not accept that both sides have opinions which are valid .That's when it gets runny !!

But anyhoo this is supposed to be a uke forum not Social Studies Philosophy and Psychology 101 (what does that term 101 actually mean ..we don't use it in the UK?)

I didn't state or suggest that natural feelings are learned. I am talking about a pseudo feeling that many people seem to want to justify as being beyond their control. My point is quite simple. Anger is a reaction, as opposed to a feeling, to seeing, hearing or otherwise experiencing that things are not going the way you want them to. Given that the world is populated with many people who don't get angry under those circumstances but rather mobilize the resources within their control in order to correct their problems, it is just not accurate to suggest that they are being "unnatural" when they choose not to get angry.

I spent nearly 20 years as a therapist for many people who had killed others. To the last person their opening line was some variation of the premise that they killed out of anger. It wasn't often that "The devil made me do it", but frequently the main theme was that they acted the way most would have under the same circumstances. They came from a position that anger was natural and for many, that gave them cover for what they did. People always wonder why murderers frequently don't show remorse. Well, feeling justified for having acted out of a "natural" feeling has given many people both the impetus to act out as well as the basis for not accepting responsibility for what they did.

Yes, we have very different views on this subject. For a topic that relates to this thread only as it pertains to the fact that some people come on forums and act out toward others, some might see it as tangential. But, defending anger as natural serves only to give cover for bad behavior. There is a reason why there are anger management classes. And, the basic premise behind any successful anger management intervention is to develop the skills to not get angry in the first place. It's a choice to all but those who reserve the right to believe that getting angry is out of their control.

I'm going to go play my uke.
 
The only other forum I regularly visit is an airplane pilot's forum. It is toxic. I came here to learn about ukuleles. I like everyone here a lot. But I come from a world of meat eaters, both figuratively and literally. Thin skin people need not apply. That is how I grew up, and that is how I spent most of my adult live. I try to be better than that. I try very hard to not say anything that can be construed as offensive. I've deleted posts as soon as I've posted them because I thought there might be a possibility that someone would find offense in what I said, but more, that someone might just disagree with me. I've found here that disagreement is disagreeable for some. I consider myself a guest here. I don't want to wear out my welcome. But it isn't always easy coming from my world and trying to fit in to this world. Sometimes I am not sensitive enough to be sensitive enough. I just want to say, that the aloha spirit is always with me, even if it does not always make it to the top.

As as post script, I can promise you all, that no one here is ever going to say anything that will hurt my feelings, or that will make me angry. While I might not be the most sensitive soul, I seldom get angry. So feel free to speak your mind with me.
 
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I lost track of some very good friends from the past. I don't really know why. I guess when one's life experiences change we just drift away from old friends. It's too bad that we can't keep them all our lives and add more new friends, but we don't seem to do that. And the new friends aren't always the same.

I read many comments that UUers make about strummers who usta be friends "when the UU was good," and I guess it was very nice--all that "Aloha Spirit" and all. But it certainly doesn't make us newbies feel very welcome. And that's not very "Aloha" either. Ahhh, well . . .

Some of the people who are chastising us for not having the "Aloha Spirit" are really puttin' it to those of us who don't comment the way they think we should. Is censorship part of the Aloha Spirit? Aren't Hawaiians part of America? We mainlanders have old beliefs too, and though, freedom is almost wiped out, some of us still believe in it. Ahhh, well . . .

I guess human nature must be kept in check at all times as bborzell and buddhuu say. Ahhh,well . . . :eek:ld:
 
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I didn't state or suggest that natural feelings are learned. I am talking about a pseudo feeling that many people seem to want to justify as being beyond their control. My point is quite simple. Anger is a reaction, as opposed to a feeling, to seeing, hearing or otherwise experiencing that things are not going the way you want them to. Given that the world is populated with many people who don't get angry under those circumstances but rather mobilize the resources within their control in order to correct their problems, it is just not accurate to suggest that they are being "unnatural" when they choose not to get angry.

I spent nearly 20 years as a therapist for many people who had killed others. To the last person their opening line was some variation of the premise that they killed out of anger. It wasn't often that "The devil made me do it", but frequently the main theme was that they acted the way most would have under the same circumstances. They came from a position that anger was natural and for many, that gave them cover for what they did. People always wonder why murderers frequently don't show remorse. Well, feeling justified for having acted out of a "natural" feeling has given many people both the impetus to act out as well as the basis for not accepting responsibility for what they did.

Yes, we have very different views on this subject. For a topic that relates to this thread only as it pertains to the fact that some people come on forums and act out toward others, some might see it as tangential. But, defending anger as natural serves only to give cover for bad behavior. There is a reason why there are anger management classes. And, the basic premise behind any successful anger management intervention is to develop the skills to not get angry in the first place. It's a choice to all but those who reserve the right to believe that getting angry is out of their control.

I'm going to go play my uke.

Umm, I'm not defending anger ..or defending getting angry..I am just saying that it is a natural feeling ...however undesirable.
If getting angry is not a natural procedure , then why do we need lessons in how to control it for those to whom it is difficult ? Rhetorical.

Twenty years as a therapist to murderers eh. I'll see your twenty and raise you another 12 .

Prison Officer and Senior Officer two of the most maximum security establishments in the UK. And we interact and mentor and guide as well as supervise and police our charges. Not like a lot of US establishments were it is very hands off. So,you see , you aren't the only kid with big toys.

And now in deference to mmstan and the others ,and sincerely and genuinely this part of the thread for me is finished and like you I shall go and play some uke.

What is your preference? Oh I note you are a Tenor man ...I prefer the
Soprano ,Concert sizes myself and the banjo uke.....I will hazard a bet that you are more a finger - picker . I try that on the Concert . Bit of light jazz or Russian tunes ..among others.
 
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To get back to the OP's original question as to why so many of the "old timers" have cycled out of the UU, the course that this thread has taken should answer the question.
 
To get back to the OP's original question as to why so many of the "old timers" have cycled out of the UU, the course that this thread has taken should answer the question.

I know Greenie44, he'll understand..but threads drift like a conversation when they get so long ...Is that a bad thing ? I mean a conversation has many

twists and turns and convolutions.

I understand your point though DKCrown, and you have adjusted the thread.

Politely,pleasantly and with aplomb.:D
 
To get back to the OP's original question as to why so many of the "old timers" have cycled out of the UU, the course that this thread has taken should answer the question.
I think this is true to an extent. There does seem to be a tendency for some posters to want to justify anger rather than to accept that UU might not be the most appropriate place to display too much of it. But, as CeeJay says, conversations meander a bit and, although the opinions in this thread differ, the actual discussion has been conducted pretty well. A bit of sarcasm, but nothing to call the cops about. As opinions and feelings are pretty entrenched, I think this just illustrates that it is possible to exchange conflicting views in a reasonable manner, thus making failure to do so all the more unnecessary.

At the end of the day, people will conduct themselves as they choose. Those whose conduct is compatible with UU rules will remain and those whose conduct is incompatible will depart. As for the leeway that the mods have with the Golden Rule, "Don't be a Jerk", well that's a good thing because it allows for leniency as well as rigour. Indeed, if it weren't for our tendency to exercise restraint there would be more jerks banned than there have been. People are usually given quite a lot of chances to chill out before being shown the door.
 
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