Stagg US10 Soprano

What? First off - please don't have me down as a Spector fan (the avatar) - I just think his hair looks funny is all. Don't let that rub you up the wrong way to the point of ranting at me.

Re my reviews - I bought this myself from Amazon - I wanted to see exactly what a non-setup version of what is their 'best selling' ukulele would arrive like. There was zero point in buying from a good uke dealer to do that, as they would have done setup on it - i.e. - EXACTLY my point.

But check out all my reviews before generalising. The main dealers get a LOT of my money, and the main brands also send me loan ukes direct. I keep them balanced across all sources in order to keep them as realistic as possible. I would dearly wish that everyone supported their local music stores, but in reality they don't - and this is the sort of thing that Amazon knock out.

Also - read all my reviews to see that I am hardly reviewing 'primarily' to promote stores - what horse s**! I review to tell would be buyers what I think of the ukes and nothing else. I ALWAYS state how I got the uke though and from where. The majority actually come very well setup by good dealers so your statement that they 'appear to you to be ukuleles straight out of the box' is just plain wrong. This one is straight out of the box precisely because that is what you get if you order it from Amazon. And a beginner thinking they have a £20 bargain may well take it to a tech to sort out - but that costs more money and the bargain price starts to diminish.

When I buy a uke, unlike your shoe comparison (odd choice) - I recognise that they are technical instruments and I DO expect dealers to ensure that what goes out is capable of the basics of play and tuning.

So, sorry to disagree with everything you say, but there you are. What matters to me is total impartiality from a range of suppliers, stores and elsewhere. I believe the range of reviews has that, and is not skewed towards any sort of cause you may hint at.

But... do I think this uke is s**? Yes I do. Do I think that Amazon check nothing - yes I do. Do I think reputable dealers check what they send out - yes I do.

EDIT - really do think you need to see my full list of uke reviews on http://www.gotaukulele.com/p/ukulele-reviews.html and now tell me that I am skewed to something or other, and that I don't disclose where they come from.

EDIT 2 - Avatar changed for fear of offending others who think these things matter...

Well first the avatar I had already adjusted for but thanks for the effort.

As to the first point, of buying from Amazon, it does appear to me that is a review of Amazon and not a ukulele. (however I do admit a ukulele review is included) Edit: BTW anyone who saw a picture of that thing would know it is not quality.

I have seen reviews for example of the plastic uke that if I recall had pink rabbits on it. You did express a few concerns admitted that you liked the uke in spite of that. So being biased in that regard is not an accusation I intended to make. (Although I believe you mentioned that uke was given to you by a dealer it makes little difference)

I believe I said:

If your message is "support your local music store" that is fine, but you say you are offering advice to people about buying.

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because in the quoted part of that message you said :

I believe in giving my money to independent music stores who need all the help they can get.

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So lets both keep that in context.

My shoe comparison was chosen because it is also an item that serves a certain purpose a consumer has certain expectations and comes in a variety of different qualities from the very cheap to the very expensive. Just like your expectations of a uke shoes have basic requirements.

Moving down the list to your next point I have already stated where and why the topic of the reason behind your reviews. I do take you at your word. It was only mentioned because of your comment.

Do we agree the uke is s** ? Yes, Do I agree Amazon checks nothing ? I already stated Yes, Do many dealers check qualtiy before they send it out ? Yes but I don't find that relevant. I do find it relevant that damaged refirbished ukes can be passed off as new and improved.

I don't think I made an issue of you not mentioning where the ukes come from. You may have read my question of asking HOW you get them if Amazon doesn't get your money. (because you said in the quoted post they did not get your money)

Again thanks for the avitar it wasn't a big issue, it was something I didn't even realize I may have been doing because I couldn't remember who that was in the picture. Thank you for that effort.

What again? The review makes it clear I bought it from Amazon. My comment in this thread is just that - a comment in response to a point in a thread. I fear this back and forth is down to nothing more than a misunderstanding of why I typed what I did.

Would I buy from Amazon for a uke I wanted for myself? No I wouldn't. Did I buy this from Amazon? Yes I did - for the reasons explained - that this is their best selling uke so lots of people buy them there. Zero point in buying elsewhere if you accept my view on my reviews being a range. In order to provide a range of uke reviews there are a fair number I buy myself rather than relying on a dealer to ship one with a request for a review.

At risk of repeating myself - my reviews come from a variety of sources as an attempt to keep things as broad as I possibly can. Some from dealers, some from luthiers, some from brands direct. Some I buy, some I am loaned and then return. How might I make things more impartial?

Read some more of the reviews - you will see the breadth of sources to them. The Woodi is the one with rabbits on it - it was loaned to me by a distributor.

I honestly try as hard as I can to keep as much balance to every review - I don't ally myself to one store or another, one brand or one distributor. Some brands refuse to send me ukes, but they can't stop me buying them. The idea is to give as broad a church as I can. Clearly it would be crazy for me to buy this one uke from a variety of sources for the review?

(I still disagree with the shoe comparison. I prefer a comparison with buying a bicycle - I expect a shop to ship those with a check on build and basic safety (as good cycle stores do - by law in the UK I believe in fact). Ukes are technical instruments with elements that are designed to be adjusted. A good dealer will check those a bad dealer will not.

I reviewed the Stagg for a few reasons actually

1. I was increasingly asked by my readers to review a Stagg
2. As I say, the 'best selling uke' angle was hard to resist
3. I genuinely believe quality control at the cheap end is on the slide. I think that shows that. And Amazon or otherwise, a misplaced bridge should never have even left the factory
4. I was accused a little while back of only reviewing high end instruments. As much as the review list should show that is false anyway, I do try to keep my reviews mixed between ukes of all prices.

But finally - I fail to see how any of this is even worthy of debate. People can feel free to agree with the review, to disagree or claim a conspiracy for all I care. I all ask is that they don't ever take one of my many reviews as just a single rant, see it in context of other reviews and understand how I am trying with all steps I can take to keep everything impartial.

Sorry to make this post a wall of text, but I think showing what I am responding to will help matters.

bazmaz said:

What again? The review makes it clear I bought it from Amazon. My comment in this thread is just that - a comment in response to a point in a thread. I fear this back and forth is down to nothing more than a misunderstanding of why I typed what I did.

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Very possibly, as mentioned above I think that we might be misreading each other.

Would I buy from Amazon for a uke I wanted for myself? No I wouldn't. Did I buy this from Amazon? Yes I did - for the reasons explained -

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Okay, I think you are responding to what I said and apologized for being a little smug about. I was trying to point out you were claiming they don't get your money and don't buy from Amazon "like I did".

that this is their best selling uke so lots of people buy them there. Zero point in buying elsewhere if you accept my view on my reviews being a range. In order to provide a range of uke reviews there are a fair number I buy myself rather than relying on a dealer to ship one with a request for a review.

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I believe that the term "best seller" may not be entirely accurate on Amazon just like I believe that people who viewed that item did not always buy the suggested items. That is just my belief I have nothing to back it up. But if it is their best seller is it not possible their best selling saxophone might be a toy plastic model ? People by ukuleles for many reasons playing them is only one.

At risk of repeating myself - my reviews come from a variety of sources as an attempt to keep things as broad as I possibly can. Some from dealers, some from luthiers, some from brands direct. Some I buy, some I am loaned and then return. How might I make things more impartial?

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Well at risk of making things worse, possibly by only reviewing items in which you had reason to believe to be good quality and paid for. The leading Consumer magazine in this country had trouble in this regard a few years back. But the things you mentioned do seem to be an honest effort. I will not go into the statements you have made about ukuleles you have only heard things of second hand.

Read some more of the reviews - you will see the breadth of sources to them. The Woodi is the one with rabbits on it - it was loaned to me by a distributor.

I honestly try as hard as I can to keep as much balance to every review - I don't ally myself to one store or another, one brand or one distributor. Some brands refuse to send me ukes, but they can't stop me buying them. The idea is to give as broad a church as I can. Clearly it would be crazy for me to buy this one uke from a variety of sources for the review?

(I still disagree with the shoe comparison. I prefer a comparison with buying a bicycle - I expect a shop to ship those with a check on build and basic safety (as good cycle stores do - by law in the UK I believe in fact). Ukes are technical instruments with elements that are designed to be adjusted. A good dealer will check those a bad dealer will not.

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I like the shoe comparison better. One is not expected to be able to make their own adjustments to shoes. And you imply in your review it is difficult for someone to make adjustments to their own ukulele. A bike on the other hand can be adjusted with a common wrench. Spokes for example can not and problems like those should be adjusted by the manufacturer imo.

I reviewed the Stagg for a few reasons actually

1. I was increasingly asked by my readers to review a Stagg
2. As I say, the 'best selling uke' angle was hard to resist
3. I genuinely believe quality control at the cheap end is on the slide. I think that shows that. And Amazon or otherwise, a misplaced bridge should never have even left the factory
4. I was accused a little while back of only reviewing high end instruments. As much as the review list should show that is false anyway, I do try to keep my reviews mixed between ukes of all prices.

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1. You chose that one of all of their possible instuments ? They also have a $200 tenor that actually looks like it could be something but you want to focus on the $40 soprano ?
2. I understand the "best selling uke angle" I have already addressed that point.
3.I agree a misplaced bridge should not leave the factory as you believed in your Flying V review. From a company that my first post said is often the rightfully the target of critique.
4. That is good to know.

But finally - I fail to see how any of this is even worthy of debate. People can feel free to agree with the review, to disagree or claim a conspiracy for all I care. I all ask is that they don't ever take one of my many reviews as just a single rant, see it in context of other reviews and understand how I am trying with all steps I can take to keep everything impartial.

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Are you saying people should just take what you offer ? Should people just take what "Stagg" offers ?

Brian1:

I'm not sure how much you frequent reddit or other sites where people who know nothing about ukuleles ask about what ukulele to buy. It seems that 80% of them or so seem to ask about what to buy with a 30 to 50usd budget. Those are the ones who even bother asking.

These brand spanking new players really have no clue what a ukulele is supposed to sound like or how its supposed to play until they get more experience. For someone buying one of these super cheap ukuleles that come straight from factory QC it's highly likely they are going to have a negative experience. Likely anyone in the neighborhood will have any negative views of ukuleles reenforced.

People with experience in ukuleles might (and I stress *might) be able to salvage a stagg like this. But they wouldn't be looking at an instrument like this.

bnolsen said:

Brian1:

I'm not sure how much you frequent reddit or other sites where people who know nothing about ukuleles ask about what ukulele to buy. It seems that 80% of them or so seem to ask about what to buy with a 30 to 50usd budget. Those are the ones who even bother asking.

These brand spanking new players really have no clue what a ukulele is supposed to sound like or how its supposed to play until they get more experience. For someone buying one of these super cheap ukuleles that come straight from factory QC it's highly likely they are going to have a negative experience. Likely anyone in the neighborhood will have any negative views of ukuleles reenforced.

People with experience in ukuleles might (and I stress *might) be able to salvage a stagg like this. But they wouldn't be looking at an instrument like this.

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That is a valid point, I can't argue my first uke was a Kohala $35 soprano. But if they are asking what to get in the $50 range then maybe more reviews are warranted for the $53.99 Kala KA-s from Amazon that I earlier mentioned I would buy. (instead of paying $42 and change after taxes on that Kohala.)

I think if you get a $50 uke from the factory you are going to end up(edit could end up) with a decent ukulele. Look at the reviews of TOM shipped from China to Norway for $50. It didn't have time to get distorted sitting in a warehouse and the consumer did not have to pay the middle man. That is why I tell people looking for a uke on a budget to buy TOMs.

Edit: I have never endorsed the Stagg soprano. I do believe that anyone who sees a picture of the one in question knows what they are getting. The company that labels that may get different ukes from differnt places in differnt qualities. But to say "Stagg" not Stagg S10 (or whatever) puts a mark on their other models. THat may or may not be better quality and may or may not be a value.

Maybe there should be a fire wood page on the underground , must say that I do enjoy the got a ukulele site , it seems a very expensive way of heating the home and maybe people would be better off buying normal fire wood instead of the ukulele shaped variety like the stag , I suppose the old saying of you get what you pay for is quite apt

Brian - I give up - I have already answered the points - you seem to be arguing non points now. You don't have to read my reviews nor even agree with them - that is your call.

Why the final line 'should people just take what you offer' ? No - nor am I asking them to. Sorry but this whole back and forth convinces me that you have not read many of my reviews, and just singled this one out for some reason

End of the day, the Stagg is junk. Had I bought it from a host of other non-specialist music shops in the UK it would likely have not arrived setup and still junk. Regardless, it also left the factory with build issues which probably mean it would never be capable of cost effective setup, and be junk. All junk either way. Yet you still think something in the review is wrong.

Not a debate I have the time or inclination for I am afraid -your response to bnolsen shows that I would be damned whatever I review, unless I do it the way you prefer on a model you agree with. Not going to happen I am afraid.

Don't like them? Don't read them. But don't claim things that you are just 'assuming' either.

Speaking as someone who has sent ukes to Baz to review, I can say in the particular case of my own brand uke which I made to my specifications - I awaited the review with what could best be described as fear! I had confidence in my uke, but didn't know if Baz would agree - and was certain if he didn't he would say so!

bazmaz said:

Brian - I give up - I have already answered the points - you seem to be arguing non points now. You don't have to read my reviews nor even agree with them - that is your call.

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Give up what? I simply responded to your post hoping to clarify we were talking about the same thing. But apparently you are projecting some other issue into my post.

Why the final line 'should people just take what you offer' ? No - nor am I asking them to. Sorry but this whole back and forth convinces me that you have not read many of my reviews, and just singled this one out for some reason

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that "final line" simply implyed that someone who gives out unsolicited reviews should not be shocked when he is reviewed. - If you look back at my posts I think I reffrenced at least four of them how many of your reviews should I be reading before I am considered worthy of replying to your posts ?

End of the day, the Stagg is junk. Had I bought it from a host of other non-specialist music shops in the UK it would likely have not arrived setup and still junk. Regardless, it also left the factory with build issues which probably mean it would never be capable of cost effective setup, and be junk. All junk either way. Yet you still think something in the review is wrong.

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I am not sure where you get the impression that I think it should be A) set up or B) that is not junk. You accused me of not reading your reviews, it does not seem like you are reading the posts that you are replying to. If you recall my major issue was telling people they should not shop Amazon.

Not a debate I have the time or inclination for I am afraid -your response to bnolsen shows that I would be damned whatever I review, unless I do it the way you prefer on a model you agree with. Not going to happen I am afraid.

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WTF? I did agree with your review. And what did I say to bnolson that suggests you would be "damned" whatever you review ? And how do I prefer ?

Don't like them? Don't read them. But don't claim things that you are just 'assuming' either.

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What do you imply that I am assuming ?

Are we in the same conversation ? It seems like you want me to be saying something that I am not.

And I remain of the view that the reviews as impartial as they can be - and more impartial than most out there. That really is the nub of it.

I also remain of the view that Amazon deserve the bad rep I hope I gave them. This uke should not have left the factory. The 'if you saw a picture of it you would know what you are getting' angle is total nonsense. In no way should it justify anything - as I say in the review - there are alternatives that are not this bad for the SAME money.

But I will keep on doing them the way I have always done them thanks. I have more ukes coming to me than I really have time to get through now - because one can only assume that people see the merit in them.

Doesn't mean they have to agree with them of course, but they just form part of a picture for buyers research.

( I kind of knew someone would take issue with it!)

Thanks Matt

I would like to think I always made it clear to you that my reivews have to come with no 'pre authorising' from those who have loaned instruments.

It's natural for dealers and brands to then get nervous, but in the same way as I don't just write reviews that big everything up as being amazing, equally there will be some where I simply have to say they are terrible.

Some people have disagreed with what I have really liked too!

And that is all cool. Sorry to Brian, but I do tend to react at any insinuation that funny business is going on or that a review is aimed at something else in a hidden way. It serves to undo all the impartiality I've spent 5 years trying to build. If the Stagg had been decent, I would have said so. It wasn't.

I’ve read a lot of Baz’s reviews in recent weeks, and they’ve been a great help in learning about different options at various price levels. I would say that his reviews do seem to be completely impartial, and that’s extremely helpful. I’ve only managed to see one uke which Baz reviewed, which was a Godin, and although I only played it acoustically for a few minutes, when I later checked out his review it matched very closely with my opinion. I think I was less keen on the colour of the back than he was, but that’s just personal preference. I much prefer to read accurate reviews which point out flaws as well as positives. It’s then up to me to decide whether or not I can live with that particular set of features. I’ve bought a few things in the past which had glowing internet reviews, only to discover fundamental problems with them once I’d bought them.

As for Amazon, I don’t have a lot of experience buying from them, but I do know folk who’ve bought a couple of items and had problems with their packaging. One was for an expensive book (over £100) which was rattling around in an over-sized box, and looking very sorry for itself when it arrived. After three attempts to try and get a copy in good condition, the order was cancelled. Most recently, an order for an Amazon gift voucher in one of their fancy metal tins has had to be returned twice so far, each time the tin has been severely dented – Amazon send them in a plain cardboard envelope with no padding or protection. If they can’t properly pack something as simple as a book or a small metal tin, I don’t hold out much hope of them taking much care over a cheap uke.

I haven’t followed the ‘discussion’ between Brian and Baz, so I’m not exactly sure what the gist of it is, but if I were looking for a uke in that price range I’d be extremely grateful to discover its flaws without having to go through the hassle of finding out for myself.

Baz's reviews are always very interesting to read. It's easy enough just to say that the Stagg US10 is a crummy ukulele. The thing about Baz's review is that it's well informed and substantiated. In other words; it is trustworthy. This whole discussion on this thread seems a little strange. Don't we all agree that the Stagg is beyond redemption as a musical instrument?
Looking forward to the next ukulele review from Baz...be that expensive uke or cheapo uke. Good reading, even if I won't be buying anything.

Thanks guys

Okay, because my pleas for clarification of what you are accusing me of have failed I will try it one step at time.

bazmaz said:

And that is all cool. Sorry to Brian, but I do tend to react at any insinuation that funny business is going on or that a review is aimed at something else in a hidden way. It serves to undo all the impartiality I've spent 5 years trying to build. If the Stagg had been decent, I would have said so. It wasn't.

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What did I insinuate was FUNNY BUSINESS ?

And this is an open question for anyone to answer because Bazmaz does not appear to want to answer it.

Brian1 said:

If your message is "support your local music store" that is fine, but you say you are offering advice to people about buying. Shouldn't you say that promotion of uke stores is the primary reason for your reviews ? You seem to come off as a consumer advocate, but if buying from a uke store is your motivation it is like you are part of a business league- without that disclosure. Your reviews appear to me to be of ukuleles that are straight out of the box

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Wrong

- sorry if 'funny business' didn't wash - sounded like it to me.

And my comment above was NOT intended to re-ignite a disagreement - only a means to explain why I reacted in the first place.

bazmaz said:

Wrong - sorry if 'funny business' didn't wash - sounded like it to me.

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Again you seem to be more interested in making blanket accusations against me than clarifying your comments.

If there is something I have said that was out of line I am more than willing to apologize for it, or clarify why I made the "accusation". (But I don't recall making any accusations.)

Edit HOld on I just realized what you typed.
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Back, on first glance, I thought you replied to my last post I gave it a closer look with my glasses on you are talking about this:

If your message is "support your local music store" that is fine, but you say you are offering advice to people about buying. Shouldn't you say that promotion of uke stores is the primary reason for your reviews ? You seem to come off as a consumer advocate, but if buying from a uke store is your motivation it is like you are part of a business league- without that disclosure. Your reviews appear to me to be of ukuleles that are straight out of the box

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As I stated before that was in direct response to your post saying :

I believe in giving my money to independent music stores who need all the help they can get.

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(as I pointed out in post #22 in which I clarified that was a question not an accusation by underlining the word "IF")

I later said that I will take you at your word, that is not the case.

And it may not be a term used in your country but a business leauge is a highly ethical corporation in the US. (to the point they are granted tax exemption) I also pointed out I have no issue if that is the motivation for your reviews, but you have assured me that it wasn't so I dropped the issue.

Which I later dealt with - as I said - wasn't quoting that to reignite anything - just an explanation for why I reacted.....

Well, as I said I didn't understand what "funny business" I was accusing you of, but at worst I was saying you were acting like a chamber of commerce. :

Just for clarification:
http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Other-Non-Profits/Business-Leagues