Konsidering a Kala?

Please refer to the UU Forum Rules, let's keep it civil...

FiL said:

If you buy from a store that doesn't set up its instruments, and doesn't even check to see if they are set-upable, then yes Kalas (or any other factory-made ukes, such as Lanikas, Cordobas, Lunas, etc.) are krapshoot.

If your local music store has an in-house luthier and they're still selling instruments that aren't set-upable, then the real problem is that your local music store is selling instruments that are not set-upable. As someone else said, places like HMS will weed out the ones that can't be set up. Your local music store's in-house luthier should be doing the same. If I were you, I'd direct my anger at the store that let you buy the unset-uppable uke as much as at Kala.

I have mixed feelings about Kala, myself. The one Kala I own is tenor resonator (I forget the year--2013?) that I bought from a non-UU-approved store over the web (at the time they were extremely hard to find), and it has been a bit of a disappointment. But reso-ukes are a special case--they're harder to build than regular ukes--and the common wisdom that there is no such thing as a good, inexpensive reso-uke appears to be true.

- FiL

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FiL, thank you for a reasonable reply. I think you have put your finger on the frustration point. That is, it is the dealers who have allowed the quality to get to a point where they themselves are not being shipped good quality. When they don't reject it, the manufactures and distributors can keep getting by with allowing the quality to continually be downgraded.

I still think my local dealer is a good dealer. They did, after all, send the bad ukuleles back. And I have empathy for them, as they tried repeatedly to obtain a satisfactory baritone and gave up when they couldn't procure one.

Thanks again for your thoughtful insights.

OP: I've had great Kalas. Perhaps the Odds-Gods worked against you, and you had a couple bad draws there.

I think the way the system works is that you buy from a dealer who supports the merchandise he sells. Kala's dealers are in charge of the situation; you don't like your goods, take them back for repair or exchange. This said, there's a large Texas Austin Kala dealer who I wouldn't deal with again.

kohanmike said:

I've been very impressed with my Kala tenor cedar top, acacia koa body

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I do wonder if certain models are just made better. This one in particular, in all the sizes seems to be universally praised for sound and build. I have the concert of this, and it's build quality aside from a little bit of finish flaw in the slot head is impressive. Maybe they are not all being made by the same factories? I bought mine for a steal because the price online was mismarked. It had no setup, but it didn't need one. Action was great out of the box.

Lets be fair though. Kala makes ALOT of ukes. The volume they make is probably orders of magnitude more than any other manufacturer. Many many many people have bought kala's that were fine. But yeah, there are duds.

But I would bet that Kala is less of a crapshoot than any other manufacturer in that lower end space.

RichM said:

Farp's suggestion that UU members are trying to funnel business to specific dealers is unfounded and a bit mean-spirited.

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We don't suggest specific dealers (hms, uke republic, mims) because we get dividends.
We do it because we don't want UU'ers to have problems with their purchases.

spookelele said:

We don't suggest specific dealers (hms, uke republic, mims) because we get dividends.
We do it because we don't want UU'ers to have problems with their purchases.

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Spook, to set the record straight, the comment regarding steering was a throw-away line addressing the idea that every serious ukulele customer needs to shop at just 1 of 3 dealers. Everyone here knows that isn’t workable as a practical matter. Kala sells 300,000 units a year. If they are, say, 10% of the market, which is likely too high, that represents a market of 3 million units a year. If 1/3 of those need setup, that’s over 2700 units per day, every day, something just 3 stores couldn’t handle anyway.

So, let’s get to the heart of the matter; or as you articulated well, “Let’s be fair…there are duds (in the manufacturing of ukuleles).” As I have presented, the percentage of duds has risen too high—over 90% in my experience of the Kala brand baritones in the $280 to $400 range. And as FiL pointed out in Post #19, perhaps the dealers bear a part of the blame. I concurred with that thinking. However, once the dealers, or consumers themselves, identify a recurrent problem, the blame, and hence the responsibility to correct it, goes back to the manufacturer.

My dealer and I identified a serious problem. They reported it to the manufacturer. I also contacted the manufacturer (yes, I recognize Kala doesn’t directly manufacture many of their models). Kala’s response was that either shipping companies were damaging the units, or there were problems related to climate. To that I responded, if shipping damage was the problem, then Kala either needs to change shippers or packaging or both. If climate is the problem, then the products needed to be re-engineered or Kala should fess up and not ship to the Midwest. But, while climate can cause issues, I think we all know that isn’t the major problem. It was a feeble excuse.

What should a manufacturer do then? Well, the first part of solving a problem is to recognize and admit to it. Unless that is done, the problem will likely continue. Kala should have said, as an example, that they had a bad lot of raw material that resulted in a batch of instruments that were not up to their standards; and that they have identified the weakness in their sourcing and have corrected it. Or, they might have replied that they found a flaw in a jig system that resulted in a batch of units having necks that were not up to standards (Spook, this could explain the models that do well versus those that do not). To me, that is what an upstanding company would do.

If something along the lines of that above were done, I would still be a Kala customer. As I said, the best ukulele I have ever played was a Kala; and, yes, I have played other K-brands. However, until Kala stands up to its own standards, we poor consumers are left with a problem: knowing there can be duds, a dud-rate of 3-5% might be acceptable; but 90% per my experience is not.

I have owned several Kala ukes, from my first uke in early 2008 (A Kala spruce top tenor) to yesterday's purchase of an 8-string. I also owned a U-Bass. I still have a Kala cedar top tenor, too, and it's a lovely sound.

I have had no serious problems with intonation or setup. My first tenor buzzed slightly when it arrived, but that turned out to be a problem of the wiring harness of the electronics - one of the wires touched the top inside. I shifted the wires and the buzzing went away.The rest have been fine.

I have played many others in music stores over the years, and played those owned by members of my uke group and friends - between one and two dozen different ukes of all sizes. None had any issues or buzzing.

They are, IMHO, nice mid-range ukes with good value for the price. I recommend them to the group because they are a dependable brand we can easily get here in Canada (and in a small town).

Farp said:

Kala sells 300,000 units a year. If they are, say, 10% of the market, which is likely too high, that represents a market of 3 million units a year. If 1/3 of those need setup, that’s over 2700 units per day, every day, something just 3 stores couldn’t handle anyway.

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Where are you getting these numbers? You really are basing your whole opinion on a handful of ukuleles? Never mind that after buying my BC Rich Warlock from East Coast Music Mall back in the 80's and having to wait a week to pick it up I thought "all" stringed instruments needed a setup. What makes anyone think a ukulele is any different? The fact its not $550 of 80's cash?

Farp said:

So, let’s get to the heart of the matter; or as you articulated well, “Let’s be fair…there are duds (in the manufacturing of ukuleles).” As I have presented, the percentage of duds has risen too high—over 90% in my experience of the Kala brand baritones in the $280 to $400 range.

As I said, the best ukulele I have ever played was a Kala; and, yes, I have played other K-brands. However, until Kala stands up to its own standards, we poor consumers are left with a problem: knowing there can be duds, a dud-rate of 3-5% might be acceptable; but at 90%, it's a Krapshoot.

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I myself have three Kala ukuleles. One my most played ukulele is a SEM soprano bought and setup from ukegirl here on the forums. I had to do a little work to that one to make it mine. The second is a spruce topped mahogany concert bought used sold as setup by mims. My third is a solid maple pocket ukulele that has had no setup I can tell yet plays fine.

Everything in life is a crap shoot if you want to look at it that way. I think one needs to look at other mass production industry like maybe the auto industry to understand how things work on a mass produced level and put things into perspective. Autos get recalls and cost thousands while defects can be life threatening. I think standards might be set way to high for a simple instrument maker.

I think the real problem here is the consumer can now buy things from many different places unlike back in the 80's. Today's consumer is more concerned about educating themselves to find the best deal. Somewhere the knowledge that wooden stringed instruments do not magically just come set up to play optimally from any factory has been lost.

spookelele said:

I do wonder if certain models are just made better. This one in particular, in all the sizes seems to be universally praised for sound and build. I have the concert of this, and it's build quality aside from a little bit of finish flaw in the slot head is impressive. Maybe they are not all being made by the same factories? I bought mine for a steal because the price online was mismarked. It had no setup, but it didn't need one. Action was great out of the box.

Lets be fair though. Kala makes ALOT of ukes. The volume they make is probably orders of magnitude more than any other manufacturer. Many many many people have bought kala's that were fine. But yeah, there are duds.

But I would bet that Kala is less of a crapshoot than any other manufacturer in that lower end space.

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I agree, I wonder if the model Farp sought is produced by a dud factory. Lots of Kalas are perfectly fine; if everyone's experience matched Farp's, there'd be a "DON'T BUY KALA" sticky at the top of every UU forum.

Two experienced musicians of my acquaintance use Kala instruments, I haven't heard any complaints. Theirs are smaller though, a concert and a tenor, I wonder if the bigger size of the Baritone multiplies the size of potential problems?

Farp said:

Spook, to set the record straight, the comment regarding steering was a throw-away line addressing the idea that every serious ukulele customer needs to shop at just 1 of 3 dealers. Everyone here knows that isn’t workable as a practical matter. Kala sells 300,000 units a year. If they are, say, 10% of the market, which is likely too high, that represents a market of 3 million units a year. If 1/3 of those need setup, that’s over 2700 units per day, every day, something just 3 stores couldn’t handle anyway.

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Nobody said you should shop at one of three dealers. People recommended dealers who have provided consistently good service. Many posters have made that point now. At this point, you appear to be looking for nothing more than validation. As such, your thread has become pointless.

RichM said:

Nobody said you should shop at one of three dealers. People recommended dealers who have provided consistently good service. Many posters have made that point now. At this point, you appear to be looking for nothing more than validation. As such, your thread has become pointless.

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Bit strong ? !

To Inksplosive Al, I got the 300,000 number from the Kala web site. The others numbers are pure assumptions for discussion purposes as indicated with the word, "say," that provides the signal flag.

To RichM, it's too bad you don't see the value for the ukulele community to discuss potential problems within the industry. I laid out my credentials in the original post and consider my observations valuable to the community. Like I said earlier, writing the original post wasn't an easy decision. I knew there would be gatekeepers, but what I've seen needs to be either addressed by the manufacturer or called out. The manufacturer said they shipped good product and that shipping or the climate caused the problem. That isn't the case; and certainly anything that's bringing bad product to the market rises above being pointless. I see many threads started with a question. If anyone expresses an opinion to which you do not adhere, are they all pointless?

As far as the three dealer statement, I debunked that as a throw-away several posts ago. I have also stated I want to hold, examine and play an instrument before I purchase it. That is my prerogative. Although I didn't mention it in this thread, I ordered a baritone from a reputable dealer. I put it on the bay and determined not to go through the mail again. For those who do get an instrument through ordering and get a good instrument, that's great for them. It isn't the way I am going to complete a purchase.

Farp said:

To RichM, it's too bad you don't see the value for the ukulele community to discuss potential problems within the industry. I laid out my credentials in the original post and consider my observations valuable to the community. Like I said earlier, writing the original post wasn't an easy decision. I knew there would be gatekeepers, but what I've seen needs to be either addressed by the manufacturer or called out. The manufacturer said they shipped good product and that shipping or the climate caused the problem. That isn't the case; and certainly anything that's bringing bad product to the market rises above being pointless. I see many threads started with a question. If anyone expresses an opinion to which you do not adhere, are they all pointless?

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I see the point of alerting the ukulele community to your experiences. Your first post was useful. Not sure what your other posts have been for. But certainly, thank you for contributing to the community.

RichM said:

I see the point of alerting the ukulele community to your experiences. Your first post was useful. Not sure what your other posts have been for. But certainly, thank you for contributing to the community.

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When being incorrectly labeled as "mean-spirited," it is necessary for one to stand up for himself, no? Then, in Post 26, I did everything I could to refocus the discussion on the key point and subsequently was called "pointless." I stood up for myself again. Again I say, this ain't my first county fair. I am not willing to sit here and be a target for remarks that attack my credibility and are off the point.

Jagadeesh said:

That, for me, is the crux of the issue: you have no credibility. Your first post of any length and opinion to the forum and community was incendiary and proselytizing. Your thread title offensive and belittling (yes, alliteration can be argued and I know shooting craps is a game but I believe you wanted to liken Kala to crap otherwise you could've used "gamble") to those who may consider a Kala to be their dream uke or the finest stallion in their stable. Later posts only serve to further cement (for me) the proselytizing nature of the thread. We don't know anything about you or your uke knowledge/experience/spirit but you want us to gobble up your negative opinion on a well loved brand like a big bowl of loco moco! This is why I am having trouble with your post and may well be the reason others are, too. Just my opinion and observation.

I do wish you the best and hope in the future you post things more in the aloha spirit this community seems to thrive on and nurture. Now why don't we talk about some ukes we love over a big dish of the aforementioned Hawaiian delicacy?
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Wow ...and I thought that I was supposed to be the rude and antagonistic one ......

So ..your opinion is more valid than Farps ? How ironic .....or to explain , how rudely you tell the newcomer (your join date was , errr 8th of February 2015 n'est pas ?? ) that you think that he is being rude...

The guy made an observation. Stated his credentials , he's 65 ..been around Ukes since he was 9.......and he is entitled to explain and lay out his story .....

I love the way that some members on here speak out for Mahalo and Aloha whilst completely trampling the whole ethos of both underfoot ......ah well .....Just saying....

How do you know it wasn't shipping? You do realize a lot of stuff was stuck on the ocean off the west coast for very long periods because of the strikes. The Kala waterman's were supposed to come out at like... Xmas and they still haven't shipped.

I'm not saying there aren't duds. There are. But I dont think its epidemic levels.

Maybe the Bari factory had an issue. It would be fair to say be cautious of model kasomething. But to say the whole company is iffy isn't fair.

Did you contact Kala and ask them to replace your dud? If they refuse I'd take your side on this. But craps doesn't come with a warranty.

Spook, The 12 instruments I've seen came in at least 6 different continental shipments and destined to two different states--Texas and Minnesota. The necks of 7 or more (if not all--I did not check them all) had similar s-curves. Bad shipping would be more likely to promote varying problems with damaged boxing expected. All of the boxes to my closest dealer were pristine. Your thought regarding a factory issue is the likely culprit. It would also explain why some models are in apparent good condition with just the baritones having issues. My dealer did suggest to the company that they take a look at the jig they use for baritone neck attachment. Oh, and one more important note--the company said they "shipped good product." That should leave the off-shore question answered.

Also, I did receive a refund; but I'm still looking to purchase something. Among the difficulties is the lack of music stores within 2-3 hours. All of the ones I have visited--about ten stores--have very few baritones, if any; and the only ones I have been able to see are either low-end brands/models, or more of the same. In all of the ten or so stores, I haven't seen more than 20-25 baritones in total. And anything above $150 has either been Kala or Lanikai. I wish there was a store that stocked a Pono, Mainland, etc., but there aren't any.

One more thing needs to be considered.

Let’s assume for a moment that Kala did indeed ship baritones that had straight necks. What could happen in shipping that would provide a consistent, recurring problem—that of the necks degrading into un-playability and un-steupable-ness, and that only on the baritones?

If there is something a shipper could do to cause the degradation, is there not some underlying defect in the production that would surface if a consumer would also duplicate the cause following purchase? And shouldn't that effect show up on other makes and models when replicated?

Alternatively, if climate were the cause, is there a defect in the engineering of the baritones that abets the changes in the necks as compared to other models and/or brands? If climatic influences cause consistent changes in the necks of the Kala baritones, should not that consistency translate to other makes and models?

I think the foregoing makes it self-evident there is a problem unique to Kala baritones without a basis in just shipping or climate. And that basis lies somewhere in the manufacturing process or materials, precluding near-perfection prior to distribution

If you feel the Kala Baritones are inferior, don't buy one. Contact Kala with your concerns, tell them they've lost a customer, and buy something else. You may also want to mention this thread that'll have a minimum of 5 pages of negative comments regarding their instruments (baritones) that is being read worldwide. If enough people do that, they'll change.