Should These Tenors with Pickups Sound That Different?

Ok so a little bit of background first ...

I'm entirely new to pickups. I wanted to give it a try so I had a MiSi system installed on a KoAloha tenor (KTM-00R). Man, I couldn't put it down. So I had a pickup installed on my Kamaka tenor (HF3) also. I also got a Yamaha THR5A and I really like the sound.

There was an issue with the Kamaka. Having done a great job with my KoAloha, I really trust these guys. They showed me that the MiSi element was too wide for the HF3 saddle slot. So they recommended using a Fishman Matrix element with the MiSi system. Not only had they done this before on HF3's but also confirmed with MiSi that this would be fine.

But wow they sound VERY different plugged in! If I had to say, I like how the KoAloha sounds but the Kamaka sounds like I'm playing a uke through a electric guitar amp using the same settings.

Here is a video showing the difference (and sorry for the Pineapple Mango massacre - I'm still trying to get down this chorus lol) ...



Is this how they should sound? Again, I am entirely new to this.

I've also ruled out other variables. I thought maybe strings - I swapped them, same thing. The Kamaka has a bone saddle, tried swapping back the stock Tusq saddle, same thing. Both have been powered up for the recommended 120 seconds for the first few power ups and both were tuned prior to playing.

Ok so I just shared this with the tech as well and he also says that Fishman element sounds like its got too much output. We'll be looking into this.

Two different ukes, two different pickup elements, two different installs. Lots could happen with that margin of error to make them sound different. The ukes themselves unplugged sound quite different. Granted, a pickup will homogenize the sound a bit, but I'm not at all surprised at your results.

That said, I've always thought the Fishman sounded more aggressive and thin than the Baggs.

A different amp or PA might be more kind to the pickups as well.

Wow you really think that all those differences explain the huge difference in the output shown in my video? I've confirmed with the tech that this is not at all right. He's certain the "little strip thingy" (evidently, "element" is not the right word for it as I was just corrected in another thread) was not seated properly and has seen this before with the Fishman "little strip thingy".

No offense, just very odd someone clearly as experienced as yourself things this is actually explained by natural differences. Thank you for your feedback though.

I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced this is how "its supposed" to sound like as subjective as that phrase can be hence the quotations.

I'm seeing the tech tomorrow he seems to think its definitely not seated right. I've watched Aaron's video countless times. I'm not sure I hear as much of a difference as I do in my case. Hey thanks for the clarification on terminology in the other thread. Again, I'm new to this.

As an aside, may I ask what your reservations are on the Misi capacitor charge? I admit I'm always suspect when comparisons to NASA are made for consumer products. But again, I'm new to this.

[edit] I would add that if, after my techs looked through all this and makes sure everythings as it should be, it still sounds like this ... then wow, I really hate the Fishman piezo strip. It sounds like I'm plugged into an electric guitar amp with electric guitar settings.

Fishman matrixes never sound good. However they do cut through a mix and offer a lot of gain. Which is very useful in certain situations. It will never sound good compared to an acoustic ukulele in your bedroom. It does help a lot to have the microphone inside the box to make it sound a bit more natural.

Thank you both for the feedback. I've heard about MiSi show stopper but not sure if its the same one.

Well, if it turns out its not going to sound much different than it does now, I'm definitely going to go with a different piezo strip. I'll report back. The whole reason for the Fishman strip is because the Misi strip was just a tad too wide for the Kamakah HF3 slot - the edges would have likely pinched. I think how it sounds on the KoAloha is just perfect.

the.ronin said:

Thank you both for the feedback. I've heard about MiSi show stopper but not sure if its the same one.

Well, if it turns out its not going to sound much different than it does now, I'm definitely going to go with a different piezo strip. I'll report back. The whole reason for the Fishman strip is because the Misi strip was just a tad too wide for the Kamakah HF3 slot - the edges would have likely pinched. I think how it sounds on the KoAloha is just perfect.

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If you're stuck with the Fishman piezo because it "fits", I'd suggest a Matrix pre.

If you're stuck with the Misi pre, I'd suggest using the stock UST.

The caveat in changing the Piezo from Fishman is the angle of the hole - the Misi piezo should go in with a ramped angle, the Fishman is a 90 degree hole. Not a show stopper eitherway, but you'll have a big hole on one side. The Misi will require 2 holes, one on each end of the saddle slot.

In this situation, I'd probably go with the Fishman (coming from a person who prefers Baggs), based on what's already done to the Kamaka. My opinion, from a builder's perspective. Of course, that could potentially be a compromise in tone, maybe. If you have to opportunity to try this, I would. I think the Fishman will sound so close to the Misi anyway, you'll leave it in, and enjoy the high gain of the Fishman. Would be interesting to see what you thought of this.

My guess is you'll end up installing the Misi, which would make sense for you, since you already prefer that sound.

Really great points about the differences in install! Thank you for bringing that up I'd forgotten that the Fishman piezo is at 90 degrees.

Keep updating on not only what you end up with, but also how you get there.

Ok so it turned out there was an issue with the Kamaka - the saddle was not making as good a contact on the bass side so the G string was not outputting as much as the other strings.

BUT ... the real issue was with the KoAloha!! Having had that pickup installed first, I kept using that as a baseline. Turns out it is outputting far less than the setup on the Kamaka. But with that as my baseline, I had my gain and volume cranked up on my amp (you can see all this in the comparison video). And when I plugged in the Kamaka, it was just too much gain and volume. They weren't able to quickly isolate the problem so it may be a faulty MiSi system. They are keeping ti for a couple days.

SO ... now I've set everything up on my amp using the Kamaka and I have TONS of headroom on my gain and volume. I'm still tweaking it and I seem to keep changing my mind what sounds good. But at least the difference between the two has been identified and is in the process of being fixed.

Have you spoken with the people at MISI beyond the first "will it work"?
I recall an adjustment within the MISI amplifier that could be adjusted for output, not only in the version with the volume adjustment but on the plain one too. It has been five years since I installed mine so this is but a vague memory.
-Vinnie in Juneau

Thanks for the tip - I have not. Although I normally try and do stuff myself I deliberately left this one up to the professionals and I'm glad I did. I'll bring it up with the tech but I'm hoping he is already aware of that.

I just noticed when I view the vid and the master setting pegged (assuming this is a gain knob), that can only be bad, for any pickup; read - distortion.

As stated early on, I would expect the Fishman to need a lower gain setting, BUT, I wouldn't expect the Misi to have to be pegged.

Also noticed your 2nd settings, with the master and tone down, which could only serve to thin out the tone. You say you're new, but this is where the fun starts. Play with the settings, a lot. And you'll end up buying more gear, just for fun!

Kekani said:

You say you're new, but this is where the fun starts. Play with the settings, a lot. And you'll end up buying more gear, just for fun!

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I am discovering this!! lol ... aside from those settings, I actually think I'm getting better sound with the other mic models (the THR5A has mic models as opposed to amp models). Thing is, what I might think sounds good at one point, I find myself looking to tweak the sound later. What I'm finding really cool is being able to add some reverb to jazzy pieces like Take 5. Most of all though, what I notice using an amp is that it forces you to be way more accurate because every little mistake is ... well ... amplified LOL. I REALLY like this Yamaha THR5A acoustic amp (I've tried a Vox Pathfinder 10 we have laying around for an electric, a Blackstar Fly3, and a THR10C).

Kekani said:

...Play with the settings, a lot. And you'll end up buying more gear, just for fun!

Click to expand...

If a little battery powered amp that you can clip on your belt is of any use to you, the Danelectro Honeytone is fine for what it is, but what I liked best with it is that it comes with a little paper sheet that shows the volume, tone & gain settings for a whole range of sounds, with names such as "Western Twang", Brit Pop, Cool Jazz, Rock Crunch, etc. Not having much experience, playing around with it was educational for me & almost worth the $30 for the mini amp.

-Vinnie in Juneau

mvinsel, actually the Honeytone and Pignose were a couple of the super compact amps I'd looked at along with the Kala dedicated uke amps as well as the Roland Mobile Cube. I ended up with the Blackstar Fly3. But then I decided I wanted something more catered to acoustic so started looking at the Fishman Loudbox because its sound is amazing but decided I wanted something much more compact and battery operated so ended up with a Yamaha THR. Actually the THR10C first thinking the "clean sounds for jazz and blues" might lend itself well to acoustic - but then I found out they made a acoustic specific THR5A and returned the 10C for that ... lol adventures in amp buying ... guitar center return policy FTMFW (even though the final purchase of the THR5A was through Amazin but I told them I got it on their website so they didnt feel so bad lol!!)

Well, the tech said he couldnt find was wrong, re-assembled everything on the KoAloha with the MiSi. We plugged it into their Fishman loudbox, and sure enough, it was outputting the same as the Kamaka. I get home, plug it in, back to outputting far less than the Kamaka. Tried charging, still back to the super low output. Tried a different amp just to see (Vox 10) and still low output. Very frustrating!!! So I'll be taking it back and they'll be replacing the whole MiSi system with another one. Evidently, this is a bunk MiSi that I got.

mvinsel, I mentioned the output control on even the non-volume MiSi and they decided just better to replace the whole thing - I agree. I've spent as much on gas than I have on this install at this point LOL WTF.

On the other hand, I am loving- LOVING - playing the Kamaka plugged in. I'm so glad I did this! I'm eyeing my Taylor GC3 to get a pickup next LOL.

By the way kekani and mvsinsel, thanks a lot for your advice and feedback during this. Really what a good forum is for.

You are most welcome. I am honored to be thanked here!
-Vinnie in Juneau

Guys sorry for the late update. I've had my uke back for a while now just been busy playing it lol. They have no idea what the problem was. They tried another Misi set and still there was no output coming out of the KoAloha. But when he replaced the pickup strip with a Fishman (like they had initially installed on my Kamaka because the Misi strip was too wide for its saddle slot), it worked perfectly. On the one hand, I am really thankful and glad that they made this right - and they didn't charge me for the pricier Fishman pickup strip. But on the other hand, its like WTF how do you not know whats going on??? Granted, I work with electronics myself and I know there are just those times when its best to just move on because you just run around in circles trrying to figure out where that short or bad connection is. Anyway, because of that, I prefer not to call out these guys even though personally, I would absolutely bring another instrument back to them.

I was hoping to give this Cubase AI recording software a try that supposed to come with my THR5A amp but turns out it didn't come with one lol. I thought it was a download. I will try make some recordings with another software or just my trusty Zoom.