heel shaping

jcalkin · Sep 17, 2015

Just rediscovered a couple pix.

Here's a nice way to shape a neck heel that I learned in a Charles Fox workshop 19 years ago. Note the temporary fillers in the truss rod slot & the dowels in the fillers (this is a guitar neck, for a uke the dowel holes could be drilled directly into the centerline of the neck).

The dowels ride in the fence slot. There is a stop block in the miter slot of the saw. The neck is moved horizontally to advance the shape. A smaller blade might work better for ukes.

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mzuch · Sep 17, 2015

This is my preferred method as well, as learned from the Hana Lima construction manual.

andy_mahardika · Sep 17, 2015

I'm a self taught ukulele builder for almost 3 years and this are my first time seeing this method.. seems like gonna help me a lot with my tablesaw..
I surely will try this..

thank you mate...

RPA_Ukuleles · Sep 17, 2015

Cool idea!

(but don't show this to Pete) :rofl:

Pete Howlett · Sep 17, 2015

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Red Cliff · Sep 17, 2015

I use one of these - I just hold the neck in my hand while a friend inches the machine forward - perfectly safe...

Reminds me of electric bread knives - like it is really difficult to cut bread?

jcalkin · Sep 18, 2015

mzuch said:
This is my preferred method as well, as learned from the Hana Lima construction manual.

I actually didn't use this method for very long. I made a fair batch, and I think I still have one. Then I switched to shaping free-hand on the belt sander. But I still think it's a smart way to get a heel that's perfectly symmetrical.

FVGuitars · Sep 18, 2015

cool idea!
but I always prefer to do it by hand and eye, in fact, in my instrument, they are all almost imperceptibly different...
probably one of the most beautiful passages of construction
why take away this pleasure?

SkiAloha · Sep 19, 2015

I'm with Red Cliff: Why stop at the table saw when there are bigger & badder tools out there that can do it faster?

I've only built one uke so far, so my point of view hardly counts, but I'm siding with Pete on this one. I thoroughly enjoyed hand carving the Spanish heel I built.

Beau Hannam Ukuleles · Sep 19, 2015

I love carving heels. I wouldn't want to do this but its a good fast way to do it.

Timbuck · Sep 19, 2015

This method just gives a basic shape to start with , there's a lot of carving still to do round the back of the heel..I use a template and router table to start my heels off..then get the rasps and files out.

Pegasus Guitars · Sep 20, 2015

John, I continually find it interesting that ideas from the past resurface and seem interesting to me, when originally they did not. I've certainly known about this for at least 30 years and never gave it a second thought. Most hand made instruments do not have symmetrical heels, or anything else symmetrical for that matter. However, this idea might work for doing some initial cuts on a heel. Might eliminate some of the dust. Currently I do as much work as possible on a stationary sander and then do the final work with a Foredom and a 2" sanding drum. I find chisels only minimally useful and rasps really can ding the wood deeply. Just looking at one of my heels, it actually seems I would need a larger diameter blade, not a smaller one. My 10" table saw is too much curve and my 12" miter saw is still a little too much of a curve. Maybe a couple of nibbles , adjusting the distance to the blade in between, might work with a smaller blade. I admire the folks that find romance in heel shaping, but to me it's just dusty work. I'm mainly using Spanish cedar on uke necks, and the dust from that stuff is terrible. My mahogany guitar necks are not so bad. Hope I can remember this idea long enough to try it out, and that's the other minor problem these days. Hope you're having fun.

jcalkin · Sep 20, 2015

Bob, dust is the main reason I try to take a lot of my rough work to H&D. Better dust collection and more open floor space make clean up easier. At the moment I find more romance in efficiency than in hand work. I've amassed so many half-finished projects in the course of working up stories that all I want to do is get them out of my shop. Should I pull this off I can drop back to building one thing at a time and perhaps some of the joy will return to lutherie.

Another old trick I may return to is shaping a squared up neck shaft with a big quarter-round router bit mounted in the drill press turned up to max speed. Its a hairy proposition, but more dangerous to the work than the operator. I'll try to post pix later. It doesn't create my preferred shape, but its a good shape, it's symmetrical, super fast, and cuts clean. The heel still has to be shaped on the belt sander and the headstock faired into the neck by hand, but all-in-all it's a good way to get the job done.

I well remember how satisfying all the hand work used to be, but I'd also like to get to the gun club, read a bunch of books, walk in the country, and otherwise maintain my sanity.

Pegasus Guitars · Sep 20, 2015

John,
I've always done the neck round over with a router bit in the drill press. I kept an old heavy Taiwanese drill press just for that purpose. Also fitted it with a cross vise and used it as a milling machine. Occasionally the chuck would drop out, but otherwise it worked fine. Last year I finally bought a small tabletop milling machine and it is so much nicer to use for the neck round over.

Pete Howlett · Sep 20, 2015

This IS NOT a prime use for a table saw and IS dangerous. As soon as the crown guard and riving knife are removed on this machine, you have converted a safe tool into a finger chopper and missile launcher!

For the amateur and occasional woodwork machinist I can see so many things going wrong with this setup, particularly the working 'in air' aspect. If the billet was square it would at least be safer but even then a saw is meant to cut, not shape. If you really must use a table saw like this, fitting a suitable dado head with a series of stops used in conjunction with a purpose made sled would be safer.

My router setup set up carries a low risk of injury, creates profile symmetry and leaves you with your fingers intact and nowhere near a cutting edge.

All you who use this method - all the best! You are braver than me.

jcalkin · Sep 20, 2015

Pegasus Guitars said:
John,
I've always done the neck round over with a router bit in the drill press. I kept an old heavy Taiwanese drill press just for that purpose. Also fitted it with a cross vise and used it as a milling machine. Occasionally the chuck would drop out, but otherwise it worked fine. Last year I finally bought a small tabletop milling machine and it is so much nicer to use for the neck round over.

What kind of milling machine, Bob?

Pegasus Guitars · Sep 20, 2015

John--It's just a small one from Little Machine Shop. I also have a metal lathe of theirs. Both are very solid machines. Pricey though. Very satisfied with both. I use the mill to make bridges, do the neck roundover, and make a few small aluminum and brass parts for jigs. Although I only use 3/32" and 1/8" bits for bridges, even with a 1/2" shank roundover bit for the neck, it runs smooth, does not slow down, and is very accurate.

jcalkin · Sep 21, 2015

Pete Howlett said:
This IS NOT a prime use for a table saw and IS dangerous. As soon as the crown guard and riving knife are removed on this machine, you have converted a safe tool into a finger chopper and missile launcher!

For the amateur and occasional woodwork machinist I can see so many things going wrong with this setup, particularly the working 'in air' aspect. If the billet was square it would at least be safer but even then a saw is meant to cut, not shape. If you really must use a table saw like this, fitting a suitable dado head with a series of stops used in conjunction with a purpose made sled would be safer.

My router setup set up carries a low risk of injury, creates profile symmetry and leaves you with your fingers intact and nowhere near a cutting edge.

All you who use this method - all the best! You are braver than me.

Pete, I felt safe enough using this technique. The saw only cuts in the direction it was meant to, never by pushing the work across the blade. So the heel is only shaped 1/8" at a time, or whatever the blase thickness may be. I've only bought one table saw new, and one of the first things I had to do was throw away the safety equipment. It was in the way of many operations I wanted to do, and caused dangerous situations of its own. Forty years later, my table saws have never drawn blood, which is more than I can say for my band saw. Every machine operation has to be well thought out before hand, and I've never had an accident of any consequence. Working as a factory mechanic for a year was a whole other matter.

jcalkin · Sep 21, 2015

Pegasus Guitars said:
John--It's just a small one from Little Machine Shop. I also have a metal lathe of theirs. Both are very solid machines. Pricey though. Very satisfied with both. I use the mill to make bridges, do the neck roundover, and make a few small aluminum and brass parts for jigs. Although I only use 3/32" and 1/8" bits for bridges, even with a 1/2" shank roundover bit for the neck, it runs smooth, does not slow down, and is very accurate.

Thanks, Bob.

BR Ukuleles · Sep 21, 2015

I've got a large knee mill that I do a bunch of jobs on, but to date have been doing heels in a similar method as what John has demonstrated, but using the sliding table on my saw.

Keen to see what you are doing with neck shaping on the milling machine.

heel shaping

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