Pure Blasphemy!Geared Tuners-Fluke & Flea-installed-photos & explanations

Pardon my ignorance, but I have to ask...

What is 'lash'?

By the context above I would guess that this is the proper name for what is seen as the root cause of slop in the performance of the turning of the button and the rotation of the shaft due to wear in both the worm gear, and the gear cog that is screwed into the tuner shaft - is this correct?

If I am wrong, please clarify. Also, do you have a photo of lash vs. no lash so that we may understand more clearly.

Mahalo!

That's it. Sorry, no graphics, but you might find one if you do a web search for it.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but I have to ask...

What is 'lash'?

By the context above I would guess that this is the proper name for what is seen as the root cause of slop in the performance of the turning of the button and the rotation of the shaft due to wear in both the worm gear, and the gear cog that is screwed into the tuner shaft - is this correct?

If I am wrong, please clarify. Also, do you have a photo of lash vs. no lash so that we may understand more clearly.

Mahalo!

In this case lash refers to the free play between the gears. With a geared tuner the lash is the amount of movement the driving gear (gear attached to the button) makes before the driven gear (gear attached to the string post) moves. We always tune up in tone (tightening the strings) to compensate for lash.
 
Hello friends, today I put some Grover 9GW's (gold with white buttons) on my tenor-scale Fluke. All went well, and again I put the first and fourth tuners in an upside-down position. I would observe that Jens may have a valid point in a previous post, as I do notice the performance of the fourth-string gear to be a little rough, although the first-string gear still does fine. On that fourth-string gear I can see where the reverse pull is ever-so-slightly keeping the post gear and the button gear from engaging with each other as snugly as they normally would. Perhaps the tenor scale makes for a little extra pull as compared to a soprano or concert scale?
IMG_20170204_1534094_rewind.jpg
 
Hello friends, today I put some Grover 9GW's (gold with white buttons) on my tenor-scale Fluke. All went well, and again I put the first and fourth tuners in an upside-down position. I would observe that Jens may have a valid point in a previous post, as I do notice the performance of the fourth-string gear to be a little rough, although the first-string gear still does fine. On that fourth-string gear I can see where the reverse pull is ever-so-slightly keeping the post gear and the button gear from engaging with each other as snugly as they normally would. Perhaps the tenor scale makes for a little extra pull as compared to a soprano or concert scale?
View attachment 97583


Congrats! Looks fine to me.

The added pull of the string tension when going from soprano to concert scale there is an approx increase in string tension of 20%, and then from concert to tenor scale approx an ADDITIONAL 20%, measured in 'foot-pounds' of torque, or just 'pounds' if imperial or kg if metric.

I've tested soprano string sets as low as 23 lbs of total string tension, and tenor sets as high as 47 lbs of total string tension.
 
Thanks, Booli! I use Martin M600's on the (concert-scale) Flea, and M620's on the (tenor-scale) Fluke. Based on your observations, it stands to reason that the tuners are being "taxed" a little more in the latter situation than in the former. The upside-down first and fourth tuners on the Flea seem to handle it without flinching, whereas the upside-down first and fourth tuners on the Fluke aren't so comfortable with it, and do in fact seem to show some "lash factor" (sounds like a brand of makeup, doesn't it?) by virtue of the gears being pulled away from each other rather than toward each other, and are somewhat harder to turn. Once in tune, however, they seem to hold just fine. My only concern would be that over a long period of time, the upside down tuners on the Fluke might begin to show premature "wear and tear", but I guess I'll just monitor the situation and see what happens!
 
Oh, also, to the extent this may be a factor, I tune the Flea to gCEA and the Fluke a full step down to fBbDG.
 
Thanks, Booli! I like the UPT option. A lot. I love basic Grover geareds (and had some installed on my Ohana concert cedar-top), but I'm not wild about the look on the Fluke headstock. The UPTs aren't that different than the stock geareds (which work fine, for geared tuners). I'll go the UPT route if I upgrade. And I'm likely to do that the first time I do a string change on my Firefly. That sucker is touchy!
 
Rick's point is well-taken, as not everyone will dig the look of the Grovers on the Flea or Fluke headstock, regardless of how well they might work, and the UPT option is certainly worth considering!
 
A WORD OF CAUTION---- last night I set about putting a fresh set of strings (Martin M620's) on my tenor-scale Fluke-- the one on which I had just recently installed the Grover geared machines, with the first and fourth machines oriented upside-down so as to enable them to fit better on the headstock... and it suddenly became clear that both the first and fourth machines (the upside-down ones) were getting VERY difficult to turn-- so much so, in fact, that I was not even able to get those particular strings up to pitch! It did indeed appear that the "reverse pull" factor was impeding the proper engagement of the button gear and the tuning post gear on each of those machines. So, I removed the Grovers and put the original frictions back on. Now, on the concert-scale Flea, on which I have also done the Grovers with the first and fourth machines upside-down, that uke seems to be just fine, I'm guessing simply because there's less pull involved on its concert scale, and with its M600 strings. But I hope I haven't caused Booli or any of the other folks on here to run out and alter their Fluke, only to have it turn out not-so-good! Live and learn, I guess... -Bill
 
Reviving this thread: I finally decided to swap tuners on my three MFC ukes. I bought Grover 6’s because they SHOULD just drop in and go, right? Not so fast. The first set went in the Fluke like a charm. The other two did not. The shafts are infinitesimally too big for the holes on the Flea and the Firefly. I’m baffled. I have a tapered reamer that could widen the holes from the outside of the headstock, but how could I get it to fit squarely to widen the holes from the inside? Any advice? I would hate to use a drill, because I’m afraid I’ll make a major mistake and ruin the neck.

Thanks!
 
Reviving this thread: I finally decided to swap tuners on my three MFC ukes. I bought Grover 6’s because they SHOULD just drop in and go, right? Not so fast. The first set went in the Fluke like a charm. The other two did not. The shafts are infinitesimally too big for the holes on the Flea and the Firefly. I’m baffled. I have a tapered reamer that could widen the holes from the outside of the headstock, but how could I get it to fit squarely to widen the holes from the inside? Any advice? I would hate to use a drill, because I’m afraid I’ll make a major mistake and ruin the neck.

You could try using a 1/4" hex-drive step-bit, aka "UniBit' with a male-to-female 1/4" hex extension and put the step-bit cutting the hole from the INSIDE of the headstock and then you put the extension into that (via the opposing tuner hole), and then with a hex-driver (female) meant to accept hex screwdriver bits, cut the hole by hand, with a similar method to using a reamer.

(Computer tool kits have these hex-driver handles as do many of the $5 multi-tip screwdriver kits from Lowes and Home Depot in the USA.)

Similar to what I showed here, which is actually friction-fit and NOT hex on the UniBit nor the 'socket wrench' head I used (note: I hammered this together and it is nearly impossible to take apart without a bench vise):

clhXuha.jpg


I too would NOT use a drill.

Once you cut the hole wider, you will have very little wood on the face and back of the headstock and string tension on the tuner can tear the Fluke/Flea headstock in half over time because of the tension.

I had installed the Goto UPT-L tuners on my concert Flea, and that was a mistake because there was VERY little wood left on the front and back of the headstock after widening the hole from about 6mm to about 11mm. I have since removed the Gotoh tuners and replaced them with the Grover 9NB geared tuners (~$15 everywhere), hoping that the metal plate of the tuner serves to reinforce that part of the headstock.

This is not reversible really, nor is the Gotoh UPT-L tuner installation, but I refuse to be tormented by friction tuners and nowadays the PegHeds stick out too far to the side for my liking, for it makes the Fluke/Flea headstock look like the neck bolts on the Frankenstein monster to me.
 
Booli,

Thanks for your insights. I do worry about the integrity of the headstock. What I may do is get a pack of o-rings or washers and keep the 2’s. At least the tuners should adjust more smoothly. I have an Ohana soprano with basic friction tuners that would be awesome with an upgrade to 6’s. And I can always sell the spare set on eBay.
 
Thanks! I like the idea of the Grover 9NB tuners, for the DIY aspect, the geared tuning, and the "out of site" buttons.

Sure thing! Glad to help. I've got the Grover 9NB geared tuners installed now on a LAVA black concert Fluke, Mango orange tenor Fluke and also a Hibiscus red tenor Flea.

The walnut with birch rosette tenor Flea was sold to another UU member about 1 yr ago, since it was redundant for me to have both tenor Fleas.

My LAVA black concert Flea has the Gotoh UPT-L installed and my Koa tenor Fluke cam with Pegheds, which are very nice as well.

(yes I have quite a few instuments from Magic Fluke Company)

I'll try to post an updated photo later on. :)
 
I thought I'd be doing this up grade when I first got my Fluke, and maybe I will eventually.
But so far the stock frictions have been without issue for me.
Though I am less fussy about the perfect pitch than real musicians.
 
Lazarus thread! Here's another video of someone installing Grover 9B style geared tuners on a Fluke. He disassembled them, and filed the sides of the plates down so they wouldn't overhang the headstock edges, and also cut down one end, and moved a screw hole. Not sure that would be necessary if flipping the orientation, as Bill Sheehan did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlDgZDmgPX0
 
Lazarus thread! Here's another video of someone installing Grover 9B style geared tuners on a Fluke. He disassembled them, and filed the sides of the plates down so they wouldn't overhang the headstock edges, and also cut down one end, and moved a screw hole. Not sure that would be necessary if flipping the orientation, as Bill Sheehan did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlDgZDmgPX0

Hi John and all! Just to clarify, after awhile I realized that flipping the orientation of two of the geared tuners (the first and the fourth, to allow them to fit without physical modification) was a big mistake, as the "reverse pull" on those two tuners eventually caused them to malfunction badly! So, even though I was proud of my idea at the time, I came to conclude that it was NOT wise! Just want to make sure I'm no longer on record as recommending that course of action! :eek:
Here's what it looked like...
IMG_20170204_1534094_rewind.jpg
 
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Anybody try Gotoh stealth tuners? Would they fit? I put pegheds on my walnut fluke a month after I got it. I bought the reamer and was, careful, and it worked out fine. It made the fluke playable as I need to have ukulele in tune and stay in tune. Pegheds did the job. That said, I’m really not that big a fan of pegheds. I’d rather had UPTL but think they look funny hanging over the edge. Saw, this thread and wondered about stealth tuners?

I’m really surprised that MFC have not addressed the tuner situation years ago. First, the stock friction tuner are junk. Much better ones out there if you are inclined. Much easier and cheaper to do from factory standpoint. But, can’t help but think there is still a better solution. For the price and on a USA made instrument

Given Booli has tried so many options and is still trying to find the best solution tells me, more people want a better set of tuners , even for the laminate, basic version of fluke and flea. .... just curious.......
 
.....I've actually been working on a way to adapt the existing stock Fluke/Flea friction tuners to work better. I'm currently in what might be the final test, right now, and this is after like 100 iterations of trying nearly all friction tuners that I could get my hands on, (including ALL the Grover, Gotoh and Schaller friction tuners), and an endless combinations of washers, bushings and springs, etc.......

Haven't seen Booli around here for a while, but ran across this 2016 post of his about tuner options for Fleas/Flukes. I wonder what the Grover 2 improvement was that he mentioned?
 
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