I'd like to buy a mic...

I've been dabbling/experimenting with home recording and I like to go the next step and buy a mic. My ukes have piezo pickups so I can record by going direct into my computer or iPad using my iRig HD. Now I'd like to experiment with using a mic to capture voice and acoustic sound. My needs are basic; this is purely for home recording, maybe a seasons vid if I ever work up the nerve

So… I can go with a USB mic like the Apogee or Blue Yeti or I can go with an XLR mic like the Shure SM57/58 (this would be plugged into an iRig Duo or Focusrite iTrack). I don't know much about sound and recording so I'm not sure if there's an advantage in considering one platform over the other. I'm on a Mac computer.

I know it's an apples and oranges comparison. My needs are so simple I'm sure either solution would provide much more than I need. Just wondering if anyone has any advice or wants to offer any food for thought so I can feel like I'm making an informed decision?


Thanks,
Mike

I bought a USB mic, came highly recommended, but it needs a pre amp to use it properly, & I don't have one, so that would add another £24 on top of the £40 I paid for it!
(Though I can use a software pre amp in a sound recording app I have, but not in my video editor.)

Presently, I just use an ordinary digital camera to record, & then transfer it to my computer to upload to Youtube.
(I've been using this method for a couple of months now for my Seasons entries.)

I just purchased an iRig Mic Studio. Sounds great. $179.

Click the link in my signature. I recorded Christmas Time is Here with it.

I could write a few thousand words on this topic, but in the end I will tell you to get the Apogee MiC, which they have refurbs for sale from time to time here, right now $25 off:

http://www.apogeedigital.com/shop

I have the Apogee MiC (not the 96k version) and think it sounds as good, if not BETTER than using any of my $500 mid-level mic pre-amps and any of my LARGE diagram condenser mics for both uke and vocals. Mic placement is key, but that is another topic.

Apogee products have cables for USB, iOS both 30-pin and lightning connector, and work on Mac, Linux and Windows - but I've only used it myself on iOS, Mac and Linux.

Everything else is either HUGE in size comparison (Blue Snowball, Blue Nessie, Blue Yeti, iRig Mic Pro) or like the Samson Meteor Mic or Samson GoMic have a MUCH SMALLER diaphragm, which makes them less capable to authentically capture the fidelity of the sound you hear with your eardrums. The Apogee MiC is a little taller than a size 'D' battery and about the same diameter, yet it has IIRC a 37mm diaphragm and great spectral as well as dynamic response as I've seen in my own use.

It's ALSO stupid simple to setup and use, plug it in, set your input level on the mic and your software, and then just hit record...

On the other hand if your budget is tight, and you are willing to search for them, the Blue Snowball can be had online for as low as $46, and one advantage is that it has 3 pickup patterns, cardioid, figure-8, and omni, which may be useful in certain situations - the Apogee MiC is cardioid.

Aside from the above, using external mic preamp/USB interfaces and normal XLR mics is fine if you have the space, the time for setup/breakdown, and the extra cash for it all - and you get the advantage to mix and match your components, but every device you add to the signal chain will add audible 'noise' and every cable you add will reduce your signal level from the source all the way to your recording by about 3 db (this is called INSERTION LOSS) - so if you are just getting started and want to buy once and buy smart, again Apogee MiC.

I used to have a setup with the interfaces and various XLR mics, and the miles of spaghetti cables, but since I've been using the Apogee, I'm spoiled that I can be recording in under a minute from taking it out of the storage case. Even when I get the desire to check out my other mics, and hook everything up, some 30 mins later when I can record, I have been quite disappointed. I pack all the stuff up, use some four-letter-words and remind myself that I need to sell it all off so I dont kill an hour or more next time I think of it...and want to fuss around with the other mics.

If I was running a studio or recording for other people, then yeah, I've want to have a whole bucn of different mics, at least a dozen or so, and maybe a dozen more of the exotic or esoteric mics ($$$$) but for a hobby recording, it's mostly a cash drain and time sink, with little to no useful difference in audio fidelity when compared to the aforementioned USB mics above FOR A HOME RECORDING setup or hobbyist recording setup. Most people do not have speakers capable of reproducing the FLAT, and UNCOLORED frequency curve needed to do a proper mix, such as Polk Audio, Klipsch or Bose, all of which COLOR the sound, hence the reason for STUDIO MONITORS when doing recording.

Mind you, all of this I am listening on Yamaha HS-50 and Genelec pro studio monitors (been at this home recording thing a long time as some folks may already know)

I have some videos I did for The Seasons, which I will link in another post when I have time later so you can hear the sound quality, just dont mind my tone deaf singing - LOL....

EDIT: for anyone wondering, NO I am not a shill for, nor am compensated in any way by Apogee. I just think it's a great product. I've done studio recording and production, as well as home recording since 1985, way back when, starting with one-inch 8-track reel-to-reel decks, using OMG analog tape ALL the way to the most current computer-based DAW systems, so I have just a bit of experience here.

vcs700s said:

I just purchased an iRig Mic Studio. Sounds great. $179.
Click the link in my signature. I recorded Christmas Time is Here with it.

Click to expand...

Sounds great vic! Nice playing and good choice of song (it's a favorite of mine).
In the usb category I had also considered the iRig Mic.
(BTW I like the Fuji X blog too)

Booli said:

I could write a few thousand words on this topic, but in the end I will tell you to get the Apogee MiC

Click to expand...

You had me back at "I"

so if you are just getting started and want to buy once and buy smart, again Apogee MiC

Click to expand...

Great info. Thanks for taking the time Booli, I really appreciate it. My preference was leaning toward a USB mic but as I said I wanted to make an informed decision. Now I feel informed
The 48kHz refurb seems like a great way to save a few bucks so thanks for that link. Now I get to buy a new toy...

Thanks for this thread guys. Someday, when I feel confident enough, I'll post a playing video, and I have no idea how to do it, or what to use! This helps.

I make my recordings with a mixer and xlr cabled microphones. I record with 2 microphones. One for voice and one for ukulele and adjust the basic mix through the mixer. I record in iMovie using the inbuilt camera, drop the file onto Garageband to adjust the sound and then create a mpeg video for upload.

The advantage of this approach is that the gear is quite cost effective AND multipurpose as I use the same microphones and mixer for live performance. Live performance may not be on your radar yet but it can be useful to be able to multipurpose the same gear.

I am perfectly happy with Behringer gear. Some people love to hate Behringer but their mixers and microphones have a good reputation.

An absolute basic setup would be these,
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Q502USB One microphone preamp and a USB interface. Bargin and works quite well.

an upgrade that you wouldn't grow out of in a hurry is this,
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QX1002USB 2 microphone intuts, USB interface and an effects processor. There are a couple of models between these 2. Just remember that you need a USB model for recording.

I like this Behringer microphone and I have a couple, http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XM8500 Just as good as a Shure 57/58 at 1/4 the price. Seriously as good but don't cheap out on the XM1800 model. An all purpose microphone for live or recording.

The mixers I listed will provide phantom power to condenser microphones as well.

And a condensor microphone, http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C3m A basic recording microphone that will allow you to do one microphone recordings but its not a live performance microphone.

You can compare the costs to USB microphones. The advantage of USB is that its dead simple but you have no control or versatility. My recommended approach is far more versatile but a little more complex.

Anthony

Thanks for the very detailed response Anthony.

anthonyg said:

The advantage of this approach is that the gear is quite cost effective AND multipurpose as I use the same microphones and mixer for live performance. Live performance may not be on your radar yet but it can be useful to be able to multipurpose the same gear.

I am perfectly happy with Behringer gear. Some people love to hate Behringer but their mixers and microphones have a good reputation.

Click to expand...

This was something I had thought about. I don't plan on "gigging" per se but I do have a Custom PA50 PA system which has 2 mic and 2 line inputs. A USB mic could probably be used in the aux input jack by running the mic through my iPad as a preamp but no doubt an XLR mic would be easier for that purpose. BTW I have a Behringer preamp and my impression is as you stated; bargain and works quite well. For the home hobbyist it seems more than adequate.

I have a lot of good info to think about and products to research. I can't help but think that if you dabble in music and recording long enough you probably accumulate a variety of gear and sort it out as you go along. It's very helpful to read about other people's experiences though. Thanks again-

Mike

the scarlett interfaces are really good for dual mic recording. i bought a focusrite itrack solo for 79usd a while back. the scarlett solo recently went on sale for the same price (sale over now). Adjusting levels on these is a snap, and there's low latency monitoring for overdub.

Condenser mics are really good but you need to seriusly control your environment. no fans, no fridge, dishwasher, washer/dryer and NO KIDS. dynamic mics are far more forgiving, especially stage mics.

i have a behringer xm8500 which is a good mic. On the low end the pylepro pdmic78 is shockingly good for the price although they wired it unbalanced for some reason (which can be easily fixed if you want).

on the super cheap usb side the samson go mic is good, esp for price and features. Again, low latency monitoring for overdub, not available on mics in its class.

Other than the focusrite stuff, either go cheap or go big (like what booli suggests) on the mic side.

here's one mic test i did with a yamaha upright using an xm8500 and pdmic78. i need to upload another set i did on that piano where i did a lot more piano disassembly.
https://soundcloud.com/traeak/fable

Hey Folks,

First let me say that if you are trying to do any sound comparison using the speaker(s) on your phone or tablet or laptop computer, or anything where there is only a single full-range speaker element (i.e., only a 'woofer' and no 'tweeter' and/or no 'midrange' additional speaker elements) such speakers are physically and mechanically incapable of the audio fidelity required to hear any significant difference in these videos.

Please note that If you cannot tell any difference in the sound of these videos that it is not a failure of my recordings or YouTube compression, but instead the equipment used to reproduce the sound.

Also, such small speakers tend to offer a compressed or normalized sound due to being a 'full-range' transducer (due to volume averaging that is a result of being so small), as well as simply not able to reproduce proper lower bass or higher treble, and usually serve as more of a bandpass filter in the frequency range from about 400hz up to about 6khz (also due to the speaker element itself being so small).

With regard to the above, keep in mind that this is not my opinion, this is science and fact and how physics, transducers, and acoustic sound waves behave.

Home stereo speakers would improve the fidelity, usually at the cost of unwanted over-emphasized bass frequencies, and 'studio monitor' speakers would be significantly truer to the actual recorded sound, but not everyone has these, so in lieu of studio monitors, if you wish to have a better chance of hearing the audio fidelity, you should use headphones, preferably on-ear type (but NOT the Dr. Dre 'beats' - see above note about bass emphasis), but if all you have a the white Apple ear-pods/ear-buds, this will actually be a MORE neutral sound, and enough that you will be able to hear the difference in the recordings.

As promised, here are a few sound samples...
.
.
1. For a baseline comparison, here is a video I made for The Seasons using the mic built-in to the iPad3.

https://youtu.be/a-drVdXprLg

You might notice a certain boomy-ness, and unfocused sound with this mic, which is omnidirectional and hearing reflections from all the room surfaces surrounding the iPad, such as close walls and a hard-wood floor. The iPad is positioned on my desk and the iPad's mic is about the level of my sternum and about 2.5" away from me.

2. Example #1 of the sound of the Apogee MiC.

This is a previous entry I did for The Seasons here on UU.

This first one I did while I had a cold, and thus not a lot of breath to sing, so I am singing and playing significantly softer than normal, and thus the input gain on the mic is a little higher than I usually have it set to in order to compensate the volume level in the recording, but still no clipping or distortion.

Recording notes for the signal path are in the video and on the YT description. To my ears the sound is more focused than the first video above using the iPad3' built-in mic, owing primarily to the fact that the Apogee MiC is cardioid (i.e., unidirectional).

The reverb that you might hear is the natural acoustics of the same room as in the first video above. No post-processing was done here, this is raw audio as heard by the Apogee Mic.

https://youtu.be/V2WSBOLinc8

3. Example #2 of the sound of the Apogee MiC.

This is ALSO a previous entry I did for The Seasons here on UU.

This second video was done prior to the first, and since I had to really belt out the vocal part to hit the high notes, the input gain is lower than the above video, you might need to turn up your volume a bit. Also, the reverb that you might hear is the natural acoustics of the same room as in the two videos above. No post-processing was done here, this is raw audio as heard by the Apogee Mic.

https://youtu.be/jaYC-LGIsPs

---

NOTES:

In both videos, I have the Apogee MiC positioned at about equal to the height of the middle of my forehead, and about 30 inches AWAY from me. This position typically provides a good volume balance between uke and vocal, since going single channel in such recordings, you cannot adjust volume levels on separate tracks after the fact.

I've done a few videos for The Seasons with multi-track audio, but that is NOT what these videos are to show you, and that is a whole other can of worms beyond the scope of this thread....

I don't have lots of time to setup all kinds of cable connections when I want to record, and right now I can only record from my desk, so having the Apogee MiC handy, easily mounted above my computer monitor, and ready to plug in to the iPad, means that I can be recording in seconds.

Also, I used to wear headphones in my videos to monitor myself, but stopped doing that since it seemed to me to distract from my performance since I was wearing the 'recording engineer's hat' while ALSO wearing the 'music performer's hat'. What I do is get ready to go, and using the recording program, I check the input level and make sure it's not in the red when I strum or sing the hardest or loudest, and then I take OFF the headphones and press the RED BUTTON and go.

Most of the time on the iPad I am using program called Movie Pro which has an option to show an audio LED sound meter overlaid on the screen - which is a feature LACKING in the Apple Camera app, and by stealing a peek at this while recording, and can visually monitor the sound level, without being too distracted and also without wearing headphones...

So hopefully this is helpful to those wondering about the Apogee MiC.

Feel free to ask questions here or contact me via PM if I have missed anything important and I will do my best...

Mahalo - Booli

bnolsen said:

the scarlett interfaces are really good for dual mic recording. i bought a focusrite itrack solo for 79usd a while back. the scarlett solo recently went on sale for the same price (sale over now). Adjusting levels on these is a snap, and there's low latency monitoring for overdub.

Click to expand...

I've been "gathering data" for a while on this topic. At some point I ran across the iTrack Pro Dock which has 2 mic inputs and that's what got me wondering about standard mic vs usb. At this point the easiest path for me is to try the usb so I'll probably go that route and see what comes of it. I've bookmarked the other items recommended in this thread for future use The Scarlett interfaces were recommended in another thread a short time ago. They seem to get favorable reviews and the price point is nice too.

Booli, thanks for linking the videos. I have Harmon Kardon Soundsticks on my computer and honestly all three videos have fine sound quality. I'm surprised at the quality of the iPad mic.


Mike

I haven't seen mentioned in this thread the Zoom series mics.
I have the H2n, you can use it as a stand alone recorder, use it as a USB mic, or use it to record off the mixing desk, (if you have something to attenuate the signal.) Or record using another mic! No XLR input or phantom power.
I use mine to record our group practice session, reso, tenor, two sops, bass and percussion. Sit it in the corner, set to auto gain, and it just works.
Excellent piece of kit.
H

Hms said:

I haven't seen mentioned in this thread the Zoom series mics.
I have the H2n...

Click to expand...

I wasn't familiar with this so I looked it up.
Wow! That is one very interesting device...

Thanks for pointing it out.




Mike

photoshooter said:

I wasn't familiar with this so I looked it up.
Wow! That is one very interesting device...

Thanks for pointing it out.

Click to expand...

I forgot to mention these - kudos to Hms for suggesting them.

Aside from Zoom's H series, Tascam and Sony have been making these for a long time as well. They are usually found in the section under 'Portable Handheld Digital Recorders' or 'Portable Digital Field Recorders'.

While their MAIN function is to record standalone to an SD card, some of them, i.e., certain models from each manufacturer can, ALSO act as a USB mic to your computer (or iPad with the correct CCK adapter), and some models have not only the built-in mics, but ALSO have various kinds of inputs, from LINE-input, to 1/8" mic inputs, to XLR/quarter-inch combo inputs on the more versatile ones ($$$) and some of the higher end models can supply phantom power to a condenser mic on the go, but will eat batteries real fast while doing so...

(you are now kind of treading in a similar space as the iRig Pro Duo and other USB audio interfaces, but none of them can record standalone to an SD card)

Also, there is a Zoom model that has interchangeable mic heads, in several different configurations....but if you go that route to get all the add-ons it can get pricey.

IIRC, the basic model Zoom H1 was ~$99, as was the similar Tascam DR-05.

One thing I would be concerned about for these in the $200 and less range is that if your priority is the best possible mic elements in your device, that compromises are likely to be made for a recorder with all kinds of features and ALSO has a mic, and it makes me wonder which piece of the puzzle did they sacrifice to keep the costs down?

Was it the mic?
Was it the recorder circuit?
Was it the preamp?
Was it the USB interface?
Was is the headphone circuit?
Was it the battery and/or charging circuit?
Was it the build quality?

So, one needs to be clear on priorities and expectations of such a device and if certain compromises are an asset or a hindrance.

It might be an advantage in the use case like how Hms said he uses his Zoom recorder, in that you dont need to attach to an iPhone, you dont NEED a computer to record, and the device is so small on it's own that for the most part after you set your recording quality, file format, and gain level (typically only the FIRST ever time you use it), you just turn it on and hit record...and all of these units have a headphone jack for monitoring without latency. Some of them also can layer audio, i.e. up to 4 tracks.

Mostly all if not all of them have a 1/4"x20 standard camera tripod screw (as does the Apogee MiC ) so field use or mounting one should not be an issue for you Mike since i wont even ask you about your camera tripod collection (Bogen?, Manfrotto?, Cullen? aaahhhhhh :drool

Mind you, these portable recorders that Hms and I are talking about, are NOT the Zoom, Tascam or Fostex portable digital multi-track recorders like the Tascam DP-06 or DP-08, which have a bunch of faders on them and a bunch of effects built-in -- for that most folks nowadays use a DAW like Garageband, Audacity, Cubasis, Ardour, etc

So having said all that the Zoom Handy Recorders ALWAYS seem to get good reviews, except for a few people on Amazon who cannot read a manual or watch YT videos - so to get the most of one of these, you'd need to spend a little time to learn how it works, and thankfully MOST manufacturers have the owners manuals available as a free download as a PDF file, so you can check it out in advance of buying it, and see how it works, what the interface looks like and if it has the features and functions that you want/need.

This is what I do, with EVERYTHING. It is a matter of due diligence and saving the time and hassle of doing a return if the device does not meet expectations.

An example of these Portable Recorder units can be seen here:

http://www.sweetwater.com/c1006--Portable_Recorders/low2high/all

B&H and Amazon are also flush with these. If money were no object, you might look at the Marantz or Sony 'digital field recorders' where prices start @ ~$1,200 LOL

Hope this helps.

I use the H5N for everything other than recording on my computer as the Blue Yeti is my computer mic. I utilized the two external mics, plug in an instrument and record with it since it does have XLR & 1/4 inch inputs and phantom power, metronome, etc, Tons of features. It does an incredible job of recording room audio or concerts. I never even thought of using it as a computer mic. I need to see if I can do that. Thanks Booli for tossing out that idea!

blue_knight_usa said:

I use the H5N for everything other than recording on my computer as the Blue Yeti is my computer mic. I utilized the two external mics, plug in an instrument and record with it since it does have XLR & 1/4 inch inputs and phantom power, metronome, etc, Tons of features. It does an incredible job of recording room audio or concerts. I never even thought of using it as a computer mic. I need to see if I can do that. Thanks Booli for tossing out that idea!

Click to expand...

Hi Ukulele Jay - no problem - glad to help!

Coincidentally, right now there is another current thread about the portable digital recorders that might be of interest to those reading this thread -- AND -- Ukulele Jay has ALSO included some really awesome sounding audio samples there:

http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com...st-quot-Portable-Digital-Recorder-for-Ukulele

THANKS UKULELE JAY! :music:

photoshooter said:

My needs are so simple I'm sure either solution would provide much more than I need. Just wondering if anyone has any advice or wants to offer any food for thought so I can feel like I'm making an informed decision?

Click to expand...

I started this thread so I could feel more informed. I must say I'm really grateful for all of the responses. I had no idea the feedback would be so varied. I'm learning a lot about the various tools.
Is there such a thing as being too informed?

photoshooter said:

I started this thread so I could feel more informed. I must say I'm really grateful for all of the responses. I had no idea the feedback would be so varied. I'm learning a lot about the various tools.
Is there such a thing as being too informed?

Click to expand...

Ha Ha brother - maybe it's a case of 'be careful what you wish for'

How about this one, you reckon it's ok?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BTSKY-Cond...=1463335305&sr=8-1&keywords=bm+800+microphone
According to reviews it seems pretty good, and definitely good value if true. It's even cheaper on Ebay.