I'd like to buy a mic...

cml said:
How about this one, you reckon it's ok?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BTSKY-Cond...=1463335305&sr=8-1&keywords=bm+800+microphone
According to reviews it seems pretty good, and definitely good value if true. It's even cheaper on Ebay.
Click to expand...


Never heard of that brand BTSKY- but I'm just guessing that it's a generic Asian company, and you may find the same mic under different brands.

If you really want to spend so little for a large-diaphragm condenser, you can get a Behringer, Samson, Nady or even Audio Technica model in the same price range, likely also ALL made in China.

In any case you still need a way to power such a mic with 48 volts phantom power, usually with a mic preamp, in order to use with a PA system, or you need a mixer that provides phantom power...

For recording, you STILL need to spend money for something to get audio into your computer, usually via USB.

There are USB audio interfaces from like 8 dozen different brands ranging in price from as low as $30 for a 1-2 channel unit, all the way up to an 8-channel unit for ~$800, and while they make 12 and 16 channel USB interfaces (~$1,200+), you are going to max out either the USB bandwidth (at about 9 channels of round-trip CD-quality audio @ 16-bit/44.1khz) or need a super-fast computer (like a 16-core Xeon or Opteron chip) and a MINIMUM of 16GB RAM and all SSD's for the computer to keep up with both the inbound audio stream for recording and the outbound audio stream for monitoring...

For more than 8-channels you really want to go with a Thunderbolt audio interface, and for that you are looking at something from Apogee, MetricHalo, MOTU, RME, Tascam, Mackie, AVID, A.R.T. or something comparable, and these devices typically sell new for at least $1,800 for the basic models...

So, if you were to get the BTSKY mic, and want to go low price, you could try to use one of the Behringer USB mixers that Anthony mentioned in a previous post...

For myself, I chose the Apogee MiC (thanks ANDREW! - fellow UU brother libranian told me about the Apogee Refurbs around Black Friday 2014), and due to:

1. the simplicity of using it
2. the pristine audio fidelity
3. the fact that I have a SINGLE device that works on Mac, Linux and iPad with no special drivers (due to being CLASS COMPLIANT AUDIO USB- which MANY audio devices are in fact NOT, and require special drivers that can also destabilize your computer)
4. price is VERY competitive when you consider that you get what you pay for...

I am very happy with it.

Apogee is considered a VERY high-end audio equipment company - just go to their web site (http://www.apogeedigital.com/products) and look at the less-than dozen products they make - and consider - how can they be such a big deal with such a small product line?

The answer is SALES VOLUME. Every major recording studio in the world has Apogee equipment in it and it is used on a daily basis. :)
 
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i have an h2n and i've tried it with recording but it doesn't seem focused enough or very intimate. i think its a good ambient area type mic but just not quite right for a single performer.
 
bnolsen said:
i have an h2n and i've tried it with recording but it doesn't seem focused enough or very intimate. i think its a good ambient area type mic but just not quite right for a single performer.
Click to expand...


The H2n has FIVE different mic capsules inside - are you sure that you've tried all the possible configurations?

There's also a firmware update available currently, and if you've misplaced the manual (haven't we all) you can download both from their web site - see here: https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/handy-recorder/h2n-handy-recorder
 
While looking at the ZOOM site just now, it seems they have 2 new AUDIO INTERFACES just in time for this conversation, a 2-channel and a 4-channel, lots of features:

from the Zoom web site said:
ZOOM U-24 -2in/4out, Handy Audio Interface

The U-24 is a compact, 2-in/4-out audio interface that provides all of the essential tools you need for recording and performing with high resolution, 24-bit/96 kHz audio—anywhere you go. Get incredible sound quality thanks to high-quality, low-noise preamps—the same ones found on our acclaimed H5 and H6 Handy Recorders. Connect to your PC, Mac, or iPad via USB and record mics, instruments, and more. The U-24 delivers the same great sound as our U-44 interface, with a more streamlined feature set.
Click to expand...

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/production-recording/audio-interfaces/u-24-handy-audio-interface

from the Zoom web site said:
ZOOM U-44 - 4in/4out, Handy Audio Interface

The U-44 is a compact, 4-in/4-out audio interface that enables you to record and perform wherever you are. Small enough to fit in the palm of your hand, the U-44 comes equipped with the features you need to record 24-bit/96 kHz audio anywhere.

The U-44 offers the same high-quality, low-noise mic preamps as our acclaimed H5 and H6 Handy Recorders, plus compatibility with Zoom’s Interchangeable Input Capsules for incredible possibilities. Use the U-44 with your PC, Mac, or iPad via USB—or as a standalone AD/DA converter and mic preamp. No other audio interface provides this much versatility, value, and performance.
Click to expand...

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/production-recording/audio-interfaces/u-44-handy-audio-interface

So these might be worth checking out - but I do not seem them for sale from Sweetwater yet - they might be too new and have not been out to distributors as of now.
 
Booli said:
The H2n has FIVE different mic capsules inside - are you sure that you've tried all the possible configurations?

There's also a firmware update available currently, and if you've misplaced the manual (haven't we all) you can download both from their web site - see here: https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/handy-recorder/h2n-handy-recorder
Click to expand...

I've been running it in 4 channel mode (XY and MS) and doing some post analysis on the capture. I played some with MS mode earlier but its about impossible to actually fine tune many settings on the fly, there's just too many. If they added the ability to capture all 5 capsules for post mixing that would be the best option.

It's not a bad mic, it's just not trivial to operate it independently on the fly.
 
bnolsen said:
I've been running it in 4 channel mode (XY and MS) and doing some post analysis on the capture. I played some with MS mode earlier but its about impossible to actually fine tune many settings on the fly, there's just too many. If they added the ability to capture all 5 capsules for post mixing that would be the best option.

It's not a bad mic, it's just not trivial to operate it independently on the fly.
Click to expand...

XY and MS mode are designed more to give a wide sound field and ambient, environmental recording, and this is likely why your recordings sound unfocused.

Have you tried to set it for a single element in cardioid mode, or the figure-8 mode? Those modes should give you a 'tighter' and more focused recording since they are not stereo or ambient modes.

It's been a while since I had hands on with one of these and I dont recall all the settings - I can look at the manual and follow up via PM since I dont have a unit to play with right now - the one I had was lent to me by a friend for a few weeks, who did not want to read the manual - he wanted me to figure it all out and then just show him, which I did, and I wanted to get one, but would not use it often enough for it's intended purpose to justify the cost, since I already have lots of other equipment with functions that overlap the Zoom.

Let me know if you want to pursue this further, as I am happy to try and help. :)
 
Booli said:
XY and MS mode are designed more to give a wide sound field and ambient, environmental recording, and this is likely why your recordings sound unfocused.

Have you tried to set it for a single element in cardioid mode, or the figure-8 mode? Those modes should give you a 'tighter' and more focused recording since they are not stereo or ambient modes.

It's been a while since I had hands on with one of these and I dont recall all the settings - I can look at the manual and follow up via PM since I dont have a unit to play with right now - the one I had was lent to me by a friend for a few weeks, who did not want to read the manual - he wanted me to figure it all out and then just show him, which I did, and I wanted to get one, but would not use it often enough for it's intended purpose to justify the cost, since I already have lots of other equipment with functions that overlap the Zoom.

Let me know if you want to pursue this further, as I am happy to try and help. :)
Click to expand...

that particular instance was 4 channel mode (created a pair of stereo files).

I played around with MS mode before, changing the balance between mid and stereo imaging, etc. But I like to get the files into audacity and work with the mixing there. I have a low tolerance for the amount of fiddling I'm willing to put up with.

I do use it for recording a grand piano. The wide patterns make it very effective for that use.
 
Thanks for the really detailed replies. I will give this some additional thought, but while I am certain the Apogee is hands down the better mic, its also about 10x more expensive.

I might just take a gamble with the BM-800 (it's indeed a generic mic, but the model no carries over between brands). It doesn't seem to need a USB (but can be plugged in directly to a computer mic input), and a phantom power supply is appearently for laptops and the like, for a desktop, which I have, it should work according to the info on amazon.
If nothing else, you get a shockmount for 25$ ;)...

EDIT: It's 12£ on Ebay, so I pulled the trigger just to try it! Will report back when I get it, but shipping is 8-25 days :p.
 
Last edited:
cml said:
Thanks for the really detailed replies. I will give this some additional thought, but while I am certain the Apogee is hands down the better mic, its also about 10x more expensive.

I might just take a gamble with the BM-800 (it's indeed a generic mic, but the model no carries over between brands). It doesn't seem to need a USB (but can be plugged in directly to a computer mic input), and a phantom power supply is appearently for laptops and the like, for a desktop, which I have, it should work according to the info on amazon.
If nothing else, you get a shockmount for 25$ ;)...

EDIT: It's 12£ on Ebay, so I pulled the trigger just to try it! Will report back when I get it, but shipping is 8-25 days :p.
Click to expand...

Carl-Michael,

One thing you may not be aware of is that since the invention of Adlib and SoundBlaster computer sound cards in the early 1990's, all of the 'mic' inputs on computer sound cards use a variation of what is called 'plug-in power' which is a similar idea, but NOT the same as 48v phantom power.

The plug-in power mics require a dc voltage of 1.5 to 2.2 volts to be injected into the signal path with the positive lead from the mic, with a network of a few resistors and capacitors to isolate the audio signal from the power signal, as well as 'bias' the audio signal for proper impedance.

All of these electronics are usually built-in to the sound card on ANY laptop or desktop computer audio interface, but they are NOT the same as 48v 'phantom power', the explanation of which would be far outside the scope of this thread and I feel that few would be interested in the painfully detailed electronics lesson - so I'll save that for another time and another thread if there is sufficient interest - however I will say kindly that 'Wikipedia is your FRIEND' :)

These plug-in power mics typically have a 3-conductor 1/8" or 3.5mm sized plug that is labeled as TRS, which means TIP-RING-SLEEVE. This is different from a guitar plug, which is TS, tip-sleeve, and while similar to a headphone plug which is ALSO TRS, both internally and the electronics a headphone plug connects to is are wired completely different from a TRS plug-in power mic.

So keep this in mind, this BTSKY mic and all other 'soundcard' type microphones are a completely different animal from XLR mics whether they be condenser or dynamic mics.

A plug-in power mic is typically an ELECTRET mic, which is at it's core a tiny 3-5mm piece of tungsten or copper film membrane stretch across the poles of a capacitor, and requires the 1.5-2.2 volts of power in order to operate and carry an audio signal.

Many MANY companies advertise an ELECTRET mic as a CONDENSER mic, and the underlying principal is the same idea, but most electret mics that are under about $200 are made with really inexpensive parts and what the equates to as the end user is that they cannot handle higher SPL (or sound pressure level) before just giving a buzzing or distorted sound and little in the way of usable audio.

Many SHOTGUN mics are in fact ELECTRET CONDENSER mics, but that is a whole other can of worms.

The handling of SPL is most important for TRANSIENTS, such as the hit of a snare drum, or percussive flamenco strumming, or the blast from a trumpet at close range, and these smaller and cheaper electret mics simply cannot handle the sudden change in dynamics from softer sounds to louder sounds without going to distortion or buzzing.

If you really must go on the cheap, you are SO MUCH better off to get any, yes literally ANY cardioid dynamic mic, which has no requirements for plug-in nor phantom power and even the cheapest mics, Pyle, Nady, Behringer and Samson (prices from $9 to ~$44 on Amazon) because they will ALSO handle transients MUCH better and typically SPL up to 100db or more. You would need to get a cable that goes from the XLR of the mic to the 1/8"(3.5mm) input of the computer or the required adapters, which are going to put a lot of stress in the actual mic input jack, due to the their weight.

I would not have high expectations for that BTSKY mic for music recording purposes.

ALSO, using the built-in soundcard of your computer is not a wise decision if you care about the audio fidelity. The inside of ANY computer is riddled with all kinds of EMI and RF 'noise' and most computers have little if any internal shielding if the audio circuits. What this means to the end user is that this NOISE will BE HEARD in your recordings most of the time.

By having the audio circuitry OUTSIDE the computer in it's own box that sends either a USB or Thunderbolt signal back to the computer will NOT have this 'noise' from the computer in the audio signal since most, if not all such devices are in fact shielded pretty well.

Having said all this, if you are really hurting on a low budget, and want to simply record at home, I'd advise you to get one of the following instead of that BTSKY if you cannot go up to the $150+ range:

Samson Go Mic
Samson Meteor Mic
Blue Snowball
Blue Nessie

if you want to spend a bit more, you can look at

Blue Yeti
iRig Mic Pro
Apogee MiC
Audio-Technica AT-2020 USB

Mind you ALL of the recommendations in this post EXCEPT for the discussion of the cardioid dynamic mics, go DIRECTLY to USB and do not require anything other than a USB cable to operate.

I remember that Rode and Shure also make USB mics, but I have not used them so I did not discuss them since anything I might say would just be heresay.

So, Carl-Michael, please consider what I've said here. I cannot go inside your mind and I am not the one spending the money, so this is a decision only you can make.

There is a saying:
"Buy cheap, buy twice"
​

I can only offer my experience and knowledge and there will be no love lost here if your solution is completely different from my suggestions, for after all, the main point is to just make music, however possible.

Whatever works for you, it's all good.

Please keep us posted whatever you do, for we can all learn from each other's experiences.

Mahalo - Booli :music:
 
Last edited:
First off, big thanks for another very informative post. I know next to nothing about recording etc, so this was very helpful.
My main purpose for a mic is that I've been toying with the idea of just recording a little uke play, to start with to see where my mistakes are and eventually maybe join in on the seasons.

You are probably right and I value your advice and experience, and since I havnt got a clue about these things, it's great to get the help.
Maybe I should have forked up for a more expensive unit such as the Apogee or the Blue Yeti, but done is done and the BM-800 already on it's way (they were damn fast in shipping it, so cant cancel the order either). I am in no terrible hurry so I'll wait for it and evaluate and if it doesnt work out, then I'll be sure to take your advice Booli. And even if the mic fails, I'll have a shock mount for 12£ (cost for the BM-800 incl shipping), that's pretty ok isnt it ;)?

Regarding the soundcard, that's interesting and I didnt know that you got more interference from using a built in one rather than external (but it makes sense) but since I dont want to spend unnecessary cash, I'll try without an external first.

But to dumb it down a little for myself, your main concerns are:
  • Cheap and probably bad quality
  • May not be compatible with the voltage from my computer, and if it is, then it's probably an ELECTRET mic?
  • Can have difficulties handling high levels of SPL

I'll evaluate it to the best of my extent when I get it, for only 12£ (17$) at least maybe we can learn something from it :).

Thanks!

Booli said:
Carl-Michael,

One thing you may not be aware of is that since the invention of Adlib and SoundBlaster computer sound cards in the early 1990's, all of the 'mic' inputs on computer sound cards use a variation of what is called 'plug-in power' which is a similar idea, but NOT the same as 48v phantom power.

The plug-in power mics require a dc voltage of 1.5 to 2.2 volts to be injected into the signal path with the positive lead from the mic, with a network of a few resistors and capacitors to isolate the audio signal from the power signal, as well as 'bias' the audio signal for proper impedance.

All of these electronics are usually built-in to the sound card on ANY laptop or desktop computer audio interface, but they are NOT the same as 48v 'phantom power', the explanation of which would be far outside the scope of this thread and I feel that few would be interested in the painfully detailed electronics lesson - so I'll save that for another time and another thread if there is sufficient interest - however I will say kindly that 'Wikipedia is your FRIEND' :)

These plug-in power mics typically have a 3-conductor 1/8" or 3.5mm sized plug that is labeled as TRS, which means TIP-RING-SLEEVE. This is different from a guitar plug, which is TS, tip-sleeve, and while similar to a headphone plug which is ALSO TRS, both internally and the electronics a headphone plug connects to is are wired completely different from a TRS plug-in power mic.

So keep this in mind, this BTSKY mic and all other 'soundcard' type microphones are a completely different animal from XLR mics whether they be condenser or dynamic mics.

A plug-in power mic is typically an ELECTRET mic, which is at it's core a tiny 3-5mm piece of tungsten or copper film membrane stretch across the poles of a capacitor, and requires the 1.5-2.2 volts of power in order to operate and carry an audio signal.

Many MANY companies advertise an ELECTRET mic as a CONDENSER mic, and the underlying principal is the same idea, but most electret mics that are under about $200 are made with really inexpensive parts and what the equates to as the end user is that they cannot handle higher SPL (or sound pressure level) before just giving a buzzing or distorted sound and little in the way of usable audio.

Many SHOTGUN mics are in fact ELECTRET CONDENSER mics, but that is a whole other can of worms.

The handling of SPL is most important for TRANSIENTS, such as the hit of a snare drum, or percussive flamenco strumming, or the blast from a trumpet at close range, and these smaller and cheaper electret mics simply cannot handle the sudden change in dynamics from softer sounds to louder sounds without going to distortion or buzzing.

If you really must go on the cheap, you are SO MUCH better off to get any, yes literally ANY cardioid dynamic mic, which has no requirements for plug-in nor phantom power and even the cheapest mics, Pyle, Nady, Behringer and Samson (prices from $9 to ~$44 on Amazon) because they will ALSO handle transients MUCH better and typically SPL up to 100db or more. You would need to get a cable that goes from the XLR of the mic to the 1/8"(3.5mm) input of the computer or the required adapters, which are going to put a lot of stress in the actual mic input jack, due to the their weight.

I would not have high expectations for that BTSKY mic for music recording purposes.

ALSO, using the built-in soundcard of your computer is not a wise decision if you care about the audio fidelity. The inside of ANY computer is riddled with all kinds of EMI and RF 'noise' and most computers have little if any internal shielding if the audio circuits. What this means to the end user is that this NOISE will BE HEARD in your recordings most of the time.

By having the audio circuitry OUTSIDE the computer in it's own box that sends either a USB or Thunderbolt signal back to the computer will NOT have this 'noise' from the computer in the audio signal since most, if not all such devices are in fact shielded pretty well.

Having said all this, if you are really hurting on a low budget, and want to simply record at home, I'd advise you to get one of the following instead of that BTSKY if you cannot go up to the $150+ range:

Samson Go Mic
Samson Meteor Mic
Blue Snowball
Blue Nessie

if you want to spend a bit more, you can look at

Blue Yeti
iRig Mic Pro
Apogee MiC
Audio-Technica AT-2020 USB

Mind you ALL of the recommendations in this post EXCEPT for the discussion of the cardioid dynamic mics, go DIRECTLY to USB and do not require anything other than a USB cable to operate.

I remember that Rode and Shure also make USB mics, but I have not used them so I did not discuss them since anything I might say would just be heresay.

So, Carl-Michael, please consider what I've said here. I cannot go inside your mind and I am not the one spending the money, so this is a decision only you can make.

There is a saying:
"Buy cheap, buy twice"
​

I can only offer my experience and knowledge and there will be no love lost here if your solution is completely different from my suggestions, for after all, the main point is to just make music, however possible.

Whatever works for you, it's all good.

Please keep us posted whatever you do, for we can all learn from each other's experiences.

Mahalo - Booli :music:
Click to expand...
 
cml said:
First off, big thanks for another very informative post. I know next to nothing about recording etc, so this was very helpful.
My main purpose for a mic is that I've been toying with the idea of just recording a little uke play, to start with to see where my mistakes are and eventually maybe join in on the seasons.

You are probably right and I value your advice and experience, and since I havnt got a clue about these things, it's great to get the help.
Maybe I should have forked up for a more expensive unit such as the Apogee or the Blue Yeti, but done is done and the BM-800 already on it's way (they were damn fast in shipping it, so cant cancel the order either). I am in no terrible hurry so I'll wait for it and evaluate and if it doesnt work out, then I'll be sure to take your advice Booli. And even if the mic fails, I'll have a shock mount for 12£ (cost for the BM-800 incl shipping), that's pretty ok isnt it ;)?

Regarding the soundcard, that's interesting and I didnt know that you got more interference from using a built in one rather than external (but it makes sense) but since I dont want to spend unnecessary cash, I'll try without an external first.

But to dumb it down a little for myself, your main concerns are:
  • Cheap and probably bad quality
  • May not be compatible with the voltage from my computer, and if it is, then it's probably an ELECTRET mic?
  • Can have difficulties handling high levels of SPL

I'll evaluate it to the best of my extent when I get it, for only 12£ (17$) at least maybe we can learn something from it :).

Thanks!
Click to expand...

No problem at all - happy to help.

This whole process is renewed for me to see it through the eyes/ears/experience of those who have not trod down this path many times before (unlike myself) and there may be something wonderful discovered by a recording neophyte such as yourself, and despite my experience, I try to keep an open mind.

Please share your experience with this mic, and if you need any help just let me know and I will do my best.

Even IF it is an electret mic element, that does NOT mean that it is a bad mic by any means - and one thing is for sure that we've seen already is that while the asian companies have a bad reputation for churning out piles of crap to feed the insatiable consumerism (WalMart anyone?) - they also have these HUGE efficiencies of scale and that if they DO get it 'right' and the item is good and NOT crap, we all will benefit from the lower cost of the item...and may end up discovering a diamond in the rough.

I spent a lot of time and money buying audio gear from many different sellers in China (Shenzen) via eBay over the past 10 yrs, and was surprised a few times, but mostly disappointed, especially if it was not a brand name known in the USA, but the end result is the same - I do not like doing returns, and I do not like waiting 30 days for shipping from China with parcel tracking that is abysmally inaccurate, if even available.

I am hopeful that the mic you ordered works well, and am looking forward to you being happy with it, and possibly sharing a sound sample or two...:)
 
Any mic that plugs directly into a sound card isn't going to be good for anything beyond teamspeak/skype type lofi chatting.

Onboard sound is notorious for being noisy as the card is influenced by all the stuff going on inside the computer.

But honestly you might be okay. For some of us it's fun to play around with some mics.
 
uke1950 said:
I bought a USB mic, came highly recommended, but it needs a pre amp to use it properly, & I don't have one, so that would add another £24 on top of the £40 I paid for it!
(Though I can use a software pre amp in a sound recording app I have, but not in my video editor.)

Presently, I just use an ordinary digital camera to record, & then transfer it to my computer to upload to Youtube. :)
(I've been using this method for a couple of months now for my Seasons entries.)
Click to expand...

Keith, be interested in any info. you have on microphones. I use a Kindle Fire to record on and there is only one microphone which actually plugs into this. Looking to find something that I can use independently, but am completely clueless. If one were to have an independent microphone - not plugged into a computer and etc. - what would one need? Have read about pre-amps. but don't know what they are and presumably the whole gubbins could be plugged into an amp.???
 
Hi Lil, probably the best bet would be what is called a Field Recorder, they are independant recording devices, that store the recorded sound onto SDHC/microSDHC cards.

These are some of the things being spoken of in this thread
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/mai...2CI&isAmazonFulfilled=0&seller=A2U91MYQLVFFQO

I use my Lumix FZ45 digital camera to do my recording at the present time, (seems to have quite good built in mics), just remove the storage card, plug it into my computer, transfer the files, then upload to Youtube, very 'low tech' approach.

The respondents on this thread are very knowledgeable about 'proper' recording, so it is worth considering what they are saying.

Also might be worth sending a P.M. to Seasonista Tootler/Geoff, as he uses some of the equipment mentioned here, so would be able to guide you through the ins & outs of it better than I can. :)
 
If this is something you want to continue doing for a while, then like most of us who've gone down that rabbit hole, it can lead to an ongoing cycle of upgrading mic, preamp, interface, lather, rinse, repeat.

I would recommend going with the best and most capable gear that fits your budget.

A really capable setup that's actually amazing for the price is the Scarlett 2i2 Bundle. It has everything you'll need with the exception of a mic stand. There have been several in depth reviews and tutorials done on this setup. The one in the link below is by producer Warren Huart, who's done albums and projects for the likes of Aerosmith and Kiss's Ace Frehley.



All that being said, everyone needs at least one SM57. :D
 
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