I'd like to buy a mic...

LimousinLil said:

Keith, be interested in any info. you have on microphones. I use a Kindle Fire to record on and there is only one microphone which actually plugs into this. Looking to find something that I can use independently, but am completely clueless. If one were to have an independent microphone - not plugged into a computer and etc. - what would one need? Have read about pre-amps. but don't know what they are and presumably the whole gubbins could be plugged into an amp.???

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This is the minimum you need to run an independent microphone into a computer, or anything really http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Q502USB Its a Behringer mixer with a USB interface. Its a preamp, supplies phantom power to condenser microphones, its an analog to digital converter and its only $60.

See post 8 for more details.

Anthony

No one NEEDS SM-57's and SM-58's anymore. They are the model T Fords of the music industry. They were IN, in in the early 80's and they are even older than that. Sure (pardon the pun), the Model T is a robust old car, but there are many newer microphones that are better AND cheaper than Shure's.

First things first. A Shure SM-57 microphone is NOT a good acoustic instrument microphone. Its a terrible acoustic instrument microphone. Now your all doing a double take and saying WHAT? Everyone always say's that the SM-57 is a GREAT instrument microphone. The SM-57 is a Rock & Roll instrument microphone. Its used to mic speaker cabinets and Drums. Its an insensitive mic for high volumes. Its terrible with quiet acoustic instruments. Nominally you want a sensitive condenser microphone for acoustic instruments although a sensitive dynamic microphone can work too.

Now some experts will disagree with this and to an extent they are right. If you have and use EXPENSIVE, boutique preamplifiers, then SM-57's and 58's can sound good, but lets keep this in perspective. You guys want a cost effective microphone that produces a decent sound when hooked up to cost effective preamp devices.

A Behringer XM8500 microphone is just as good as an SM-58 at 1/3rd the price. At the same price of an SM-58 you can buy FAR better microphones. Shure microphones have a reputation for durability in the Rock & Roll industry but its nothing to do with them being good microphones anymore.

Look at Audix microphones, EV microphones, Senheiser microphones, AKG microhones and more. I use and like Audix microphones for a neutral sound and smoothness.

Anthony

I'm going to have to disagree a little bit.

In non ideal environments (basically just about anywhere a beginning amateur recordist would be recording) something like a 57 or 58 is great. The proximity effect greatly reduces the amount of room coloring and comb filtering introduced into the track. That same proximity effect makes slight variations in mic placement sound very different, thus helping one learn the black art of mic placement. With a condenser mic, the instrument/mic placement in the room is at least as vital the microphone's placement in relation to the instrument - adding another layer of complexity to overcome to get decent sound. When you hear recordings that sound boxy or have unattractive ambience you can almost bet it was a condenser in conjunction with poor room placement in an untreated room.

I have no experience with the Behringer you cite. I may pick up a few of them on your recommendation and give them a try next time I track drums and electric guitars. I have several other pieces of Behringer gear, and can say with confidence that their quality is all over the map. I really like their patch bays, BDI21 Bass Driver (sounds amazingly similar to a Sans Amp for just over a tenth of the cost) and four-channel headphone amps.

Now, all that being said, I'm going to have to agree that 57s and 58s are definitely not stellar sounding mics. They have a sound that everyone has become accustomed to over the last 50 or so years. They're familiar and comfortable and used by a lot of engineers similar to the way a five year old may cling to their baby blanket in times of stress, LOL! And some people, most notably Paul Rogers, refuse to use anything else.

There is a plethora of outstanding gear out there right now for next to nothing. I have a couple decent mics, but all too often find myself using very inexpensive MXLs, Samsons and CADs because in the environment, in the moment, they often seem to capture the sound or vibe of what's being played or sang in a way that enhances the performance.

So in short - get what you can afford if you're just starting out or learning. If you're OK with constantly trading up or upgrading than all the better. If not, you're probably going to want to be a little more discerning with your purchases. The most important thing is practice and experimentation. If you want to get proficient at recording record a lot, and try anything/everything you can think of. A mic in the stairwell outside the room with the door open? Why not! A mic pointed at the soundhole of another instrument sitting on a stand in the room? Sure! A mic on a boom stand behind you 'looking' down over your shoulder at the instrument? You might be amazed when it sounds exactly like what you hear while you're playing, uh, or not.

I agree that omni-directional, large diaphragm condenser microphones are not for everyone and are difficult to use. Not all condenser microphones are the same though. My main recording microphone is an Audix VX-5 which is a super cardioid electret condenser microphone. It does a great job in less than ideal rooms and there are plenty of other options to Shure when it comes to cardioid pattern dynamic microphones.

The Behringer XM8500 is an equivalent microphone to an SM-58 so you would use it in the same way. Avoid the 3 pack of XM1800's. They're ordinary.

Anthony

bnolsen said:

here's a youtube vid comparing several mics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgU4xOXMNR8

the bm800 actually comes out pretty well, especially when plugged into a focusrite audio interface.

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing this link, it was a very good video. Basically, the BM-800 paired with an audio interface gives great sound at about a total of 80$. I'll still hold off though and try without one first.

anthonyg said:

The Behringer XM8500 is an equivalent microphone to an SM-58 so you would use it in the same way.

Click to expand...

The behringer is a nice mic but not really equivalent to the sm58. At least not with the response curves.

From some reports I've seen a new out of box pylepro pdmic78 has the same response curve as a new out of box sm57 with transformer removed. Youtube vids tend to always test new in box pdmic78s to well broken in sm57 mics. 10usd vs 100usd .....

The pylepro really needs the simple balanced mic wiring mod.

I would take one of the focusrite solo interfaces over the behringer interfaces, especially when they go on sale for 75-80usd. They are really very good.

bnolsen said:

The behringer is a nice mic but not really equivalent to the sm58. At least not with the response curves.

From some reports I've seen a new out of box pylepro pdmic78 has the same response curve as a new out of box sm57 with transformer removed. Youtube vids tend to always test new in box pdmic78s to well broken in sm57 mics. 10usd vs 100usd .....

The pylepro really needs the simple balanced mic wiring mod.

I would take one of the focusrite solo interfaces over the behringer interfaces, especially when they go on sale for 75-80usd. They are really very good.

Click to expand...

I'd considered that Pyle Pro mic once before as a 'beater' mic, and the instructions for the wiring mod are on the Amazon page in the reviews section.

Focusrite is no joke, they've been doing audio for a long time and have some of the best sounding and clean mic preamps with a very low noise floor, whereas 99% of Behringer products have a noise floor around 40-45db and this can be heard in recordings of silence. Not Good.

Behringer products are made in China, and across the board many identical models are also sold under the Samson and Pyle Pro brand names. Behringer stuff works fine if you are on a budget, and the REALLY GREAT thing as evident by all the posts in this thread is that in 2016 we have an embarrassment of riches in ALL of the choices that are both affordable and easily available for home recording. Nice to see that SO MANY ways to the end path of getting a decent home recording.

Even 20 yrs ago, there were not so many choices, there was the WOW stuff that was $$$$$, then there was the average $$$ performing gear, and then there was everything else, that was, basically just crap.

I've been doing audio since 1985 so I've seen AND used LOTS and lots of gear in the past 31 yrs, and now is the best time to be able to use these tools for sure.

The XM8500 microphone is very similar to an SM-58. Where there are differences in the response curves are probably where the XM8500 is better than an SM-58. Quite a number of people think that the Behringer is better than the Shure but I hadn't been making this claim, up till now.

I have both Behringer mixers and a Focusrite Scarlet interface for recordings. Mixers are easier to use and its quicker to get a decent sound than using an audio interface. I'm sure that I can get a cleaner sound using the Focusrite but it will involve a bit of post recording fiddling to get the best from it. The Behringer mixers can be a little variable in regards to noise. I had 2 of them. One is quiet and one had a little noise. They were quiet enough for me to hear faint bird chirping from my indoor recordings.

Anthony

I just wanted to revisit this thread and thank everyone for the education.
I ended up getting a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. I didn't get a mic yet but I plan on getting the XM8500. I'm looking forward to doing some experimenting over the summer.



Mike

photoshooter said:

I started this thread so I could feel more informed. I must say I'm really grateful for all of the responses. I had no idea the feedback would be so varied. I'm learning a lot about the various tools.
Is there such a thing as being too informed?

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I've been reading this thread all along, and at this point I'm not informed, just confused and a little frustrated. But that happens with everything. Why do things have to end up so complicated, and so expensive? I too would like to get a mic. I don't want to necessarily record anything, but I do want to plug into my amp and play at coffee shops, festivals, and other places like that. Places where I need to set up, do my thing, then take it all down. I'm a minimalist. I don't like having a lot of stuff, and I certainly don't like lugging around a lot of stuff. I also am not going to sink thousands of dollars into it. So where is the happy medium? All of this Behringer equipment looks good. It is reasonably priced. Looks like it might be usable without a PhD in the subject. Is it the way to go? I guess it depends on who you are talking to. Anyway, neither my audiences, or myself, are going to be particular beyond reason about it. It has to sound good, not great.

I think all you would really need is an amp that can take both a uke & a mic as inputs.

It's like with everything else, you get the common people, (me & you), & then you get the keen afficianados, who know every detail about the equipment.

uke1950 said:

I think all you would really need is an amp that can take both a uke & a mic as inputs.

It's like with everything else, you get the common people, (me & you), & then you get the keen afficianados, who know every detail about the equipment.

Click to expand...

I think that would work well for me too. And I in fact have an amp like that. I also have another amp that does not have a microphone input, so I would need some kind of mixer, and I'm making and attempt to understand mixers as well. But right now, I just want to get a better microphone, but evidently it is not that simple.

Rllink,

Some months ago, based on advice from this forum, I bought a Kustom PA50 speaker/pa system. Right around a hundred bucks. You can plug in an instrument, a mic and an MP3 player at the same time. If at some point you need more you can connect multiple PA50 units together. It's lightweight, easy to carry, reasonably priced and not complicated in the least.

photoshooter said:

Rllink,

Some months ago, based on advice from this forum, I bought a Kustom PA50 speaker/pa system. Right around a hundred bucks. You can plug in an instrument, a mic and an MP3 player at the same time. If at some point you need more you can connect multiple PA50 units together. It's lightweight, easy to carry, reasonably priced and not complicated in the least.

Click to expand...

I have heard great things about the Kustom PA50. How do you like it and how is the sound quality

My needs are modest but I find it to be a great value for the money. Sound quality suits me perfectly and I like the fact that there's an upgrade path by connecting multiple units.

Rllink said:

I've been reading this thread all along, and at this point I'm not informed, just confused and a little frustrated. But that happens with everything. Why do things have to end up so complicated, and so expensive?

Click to expand...

This is the internet. lots of people have opinions and its easy to express them here!

Rllink said:

I've been reading this thread all along, and at this point I'm not informed, just confused and a little frustrated. ... Why do things have to end up so complicated, and so expensive? ... I also am not going to sink thousands of dollars into it. ...

Click to expand...

It would help you to replace your frustration with understanding if you could ask questions on the topics that you are having trouble understanding.

Where did anyone say sinking thousands of dollars into using a mic? What I see in this thread are a MULTITUDE of options to fit every budget and skill level, maybe there are TOO MANY choices for you and that is more why you are upset than any cost factor?

You can get recording for under $100, and get a PA setup going for under $200, (using close to the least expensive, but not yet crapola options) so your perception of THOUSANDS must be for something else.

Small diaphragm condenser mics like the Behringer C2 can be had for $59 per PAIR like everywhere online, and there are ALSO dozens of brand names offering chinese-made large diaphragm condenser mics for less than $100.

So if you dont want to spend $5,699 for a Neumann U87, then just dont do it. Unless you are a professional, while also annoyed at all of the burdensome tech you have to 'learn' and such a mic would be a complete waste of money for someone doing busking or coffee house gigs.

Some time back Sweetwater has a special on a WHOLE SETUP with the Fishman LoudBox amp, with a mic, mic cable, mic stand, music stand etc, for ~$400, and this amp has won friggin AWARDS!!!! so there is no reason to spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. I'm sorry but this is a very serious mis-characterization of everything that has been previously discussed in this thread.

I'm not going to re-hash or summarize all the great advice in this thread, but if you WANT to learn about OPTIONS, this thread is a really great place to start.

--

It seems that folks as little as ten yrs older than me are always whinging that there are too many choices nowadays, and that they preferred it when literally EVERYTHING was like only three choices of black, white, or grey.

That's not the world today, and I'm sorry to say that folks holding on to such older paradigms like that are going to be left on the wayside by progress.

None of this has to be complicated, but some folks need to find reasons not to try any more as they get older, and 'settle-in' to old-age, which for some people is both a physical and mental state of self-inflicted atrophy.

I refuse to live like that and will either fight to hold on so I can ride the Big Wave, or if I became too cripple, mentally or physically, find a 'way out', whatever that might be.

Rllink said:

I've been reading this thread all along, and at this point I'm not informed, just confused and a little frustrated. But that happens with everything. Why do things have to end up so complicated, and so expensive? I too would like to get a mic. I don't want to necessarily record anything, but I do want to plug into my amp and play at coffee shops, festivals, and other places like that. Places where I need to set up, do my thing, then take it all down. I'm a minimalist. I don't like having a lot of stuff, and I certainly don't like lugging around a lot of stuff. I also am not going to sink thousands of dollars into it. So where is the happy medium? All of this Behringer equipment looks good. It is reasonably priced. Looks like it might be usable without a PhD in the subject. Is it the way to go? I guess it depends on who you are talking to. Anyway, neither my audiences, or myself, are going to be particular beyond reason about it. It has to sound good, not great.

Click to expand...

What is your amp and importantly, does it have an XLR (3 pin) input for a microphone?

If you just need a vocal microphone and your amp does have an XLR microphone input then all you need is a cardioid dynamic microphone (an industry standard microphone type. A Behringer XM8500 is a fine choice and cheap but you can spend more if you want for a better microphone), an XLR microphone cable and a microphone stand. You could spend about $100 all up and get decent gear. I'm assuming your plugging a pickup equipped uke into the amp.

If you don't have an amp with an XLR input you could look at external preamps but you are probably better off getting an acoustic amp with XLR inputs to start with.

Anthony

anthonyg said:

What is your amp and importantly, does it have an XLR (3 pin) input for a microphone?

If you just need a vocal microphone and your amp does have an XLR microphone input then all you need is a cardioid dynamic microphone (an industry standard microphone type. A Behringer XM8500 is a fine choice and cheap but you can spend more if you want for a better microphone), an XLR microphone cable and a microphone stand. You could spend about $100 all up and get decent gear. I'm assuming your plugging a pickup equipped uke into the amp.

If you don't have an amp with an XLR input you could look at external preamps but you are probably better off getting an acoustic amp with XLR inputs to start with.

Anthony

Click to expand...

Neither of my amps have the XLR input. One is a Vox Mini3, and it does work for me, although I think that often times I push it beyond its limits, and that is where the problem lies with the amp. But it has a 1/4" plugin for the mic. I have a cheap Emerson mic that has a headset. I don't particularly like the headset, and the mic picks up a lot of ambient noise, especially outside. I am not happy with, and that is actually what I am wondering about. Just how much I have to spend to get something that will work. The other amp is a Marshall 10 watt amp that has one input 1/4". So that is the one that I may get a mixer and see if I can get it working. I understand amps a little better than some of the rest of the components that make up a sound system. I looked at that Kustom PA50 that photoshooter recommended. It looks interesting. I don't know if that is the way I should go or not, but even so, it doesn't help me choose a mic. Right now, I'm just trying to understand mics.

Booli said:

It would help you to replace your frustration with understanding if you could ask questions on the topics that you are having trouble understanding.

Where did anyone say sinking thousands of dollars into using a mic? What I see in this thread are a MULTITUDE of options to fit every budget and skill level, maybe there are TOO MANY choices for you and that is more why you are upset than any cost factor?

You can get recording for under $100, and get a PA setup going for under $200, (using close to the least expensive, but not yet crapola options) so your perception of THOUSANDS must be for something else.

Small diaphragm condenser mics like the Behringer C2 can be had for $59 per PAIR like everywhere online, and there are ALSO dozens of brand names offering chinese-made large diaphragm condenser mics for less than $100.

So if you dont want to spend $5,699 for a Neumann U87, then just dont do it. Unless you are a professional, while also annoyed at all of the burdensome tech you have to 'learn' and such a mic would be a complete waste of money for someone doing busking or coffee house gigs.

Some time back Sweetwater has a special on a WHOLE SETUP with the Fishman LoudBox amp, with a mic, mic cable, mic stand, music stand etc, for ~$400, and this amp has won friggin AWARDS!!!! so there is no reason to spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. I'm sorry but this is a very serious mis-characterization of everything that has been previously discussed in this thread.

I'm not going to re-hash or summarize all the great advice in this thread, but if you WANT to learn about OPTIONS, this thread is a really great place to start.

--

It seems that folks as little as ten yrs older than me are always whinging that there are too many choices nowadays, and that they preferred it when literally EVERYTHING was like only three choices of black, white, or grey.

That's not the world today, and I'm sorry to say that folks holding on to such older paradigms like that are going to be left on the wayside by progress.

None of this has to be complicated, but some folks need to find reasons not to try any more as they get older, and 'settle-in' to old-age, which for some people is both a physical and mental state of self-inflicted atrophy.

I refuse to live like that and will either fight to hold on so I can ride the Big Wave, or if I became too cripple, mentally or physically, find a 'way out', whatever that might be.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for this post, Booli. It has been very helpful, and I am trying to understand. No doubt, your knowledge of audio systems is impressive to say the least. Please have patience with us settled in older folks as we try to work our way through all this information. We may be slow, both physically and mentally, but we are trying. There is a lot of information flying around here, and It is just so hard for us older folks to recognize where the pertinent information ends, and the obsession with the insignificant begins. Keep riding that big wave.