Baritone Strumming

Hey thanks again Southcoast - and to both of you guys for the intro to the other artists. I picked up a few of their tunes on iTunes and have been listening the past few days. I didn't realize Doc had ukulele albums out - I will look for those too!

I'm certainly interested in giving some new strings and turnings a spin on the Bari and I think I'm going to do that down the road. Lately I've been really into learning how to play songs first on the standard uke up and down the neck, then switch over and learn the same song on the Bari up and down the neck. It's just an exercise that has helped me to see the fretboard and chord relations much more clearly. I think it's a great exercise for learning

I realize that'd I'd still be able to do that same exercise with either of the ukes tuned any which way - and that'd probably be a great exercise to do next. But for now there's something about having a DGBE transposed against the GCEA that facilitates it for me - having the I and V chord there in the same spot. I've been having fun with that

The other take away that I got from my failed gypsy jazz guitar efforts, was I that I learned to see soloing in terms of arpeggios rather than scales. I was always thinking in terms of scales when solo'ing but these gypsy jazz guys always kept saying - no it's about arpeggios. That unlocked something for me as well in seeing the fretboard - and again practicing songs back in forth in the two turnings really has been a great learning experience -

I have various tenors (and another one on its way!) but only one Bari. I'm gonna keep that Bari the way it is for now. But I may explore around with some different strings and turnings on the tenors.

That Kala archtop tenor that is hanging in the background of the video - I've yet to find the right set of strings or tuning to make that thing really sing. It's super sexy looking uke - and has a sweet enough tone - fun to play - but it's super super quiet. Sometimes it's good to have a super quiet uke. Like 5am in the morning. But I know that thing is capable of more than what I'm getting out of it if you have any suggestion -
 
That Kala archtop tenor that is hanging in the background of the video - I've yet to find the right set of strings or tuning to make that thing really sing. It's super sexy looking uke - and has a sweet enough tone - fun to play - but it's super super quiet. Sometimes it's good to have a super quiet uke. Like 5am in the morning. But I know that thing is capable of more than what I'm getting out of it if you have any suggestion -

Can it take ball end strings?
 
I believe that it can - its bridge is a mockup of an archtop guitar bridge for aesthetic purposes and seems like it would support ball ends

You might like to try a set we have on the Linear page, the HML-CMs. "CM" stands for "Classical Metals" and they give a sort of steel string sound without the danger of using actual steel. I'm not sure about whether it would give more true volume, but I'd guess it would project better, and that sort of sound would seem appropriate on an Archtop.

On your Tenor it would give you C tuning, but so as not to hijack the thread (at least not too much & at least not again), put these on a Baritone and you'll be right where Scatman was in tuning and sound on that earlier video. They have tons of sustain, but played like you do that's easily controlled, and for those who sing and have a repertoire of songs in C tuning a capo on the 2nd fret puts you right back there.
 
I find that the four string format, with the linear DGBE ('Chicago tuning') makes jazz rhythm playing much easier. On that kind of tuning - on guitar or baritone ukulele - I can play jazz tunes in any key. Barre chords are so much easier, and keys which are difficult for me on six strings, such as for instance Eb, is a breeze on four strings.

As far as tenor guitar (or banjo, as you'd have it) goes, I 100% agree that Chicago tuning is far, far easier than "standard" or original tenor guitar tuning (CGDA, like a cello.) However, the chord voicings are quite different. I think the CGDA tuning has a more naturally jazzy feel inherently, but it's not as though you can't pull off jazz in DGBE. It's laughably beyond my understanding of pythagorean theorems, but it has to do with the space between the notes of the open strings, or tuning to 4ths as opposed to 5ths.

Anyone here ever try CGDA tuning on a uke?
 


This is a great example of strumming ... has anyone found a tutorial on this type of strumming they could share?

Thanks.
 
Sam, since we have the same baritone (with the cutaway being the only difference), I didn't feel that it sounds muddy when strummed with the Ko'olau strings. I do feel that it's missing the sparkle in upstrokes, but that is likely because of the linear tuning. But it didn't strike me as blurred.

I bought a couple sets of high-d Living Water strings from Ken (would like to try Dirk's at some point also, but England is closer), so I'll give this a whirl and see how I like it. I believe Dirk said before that dGBE (high-d) is a better tuning for baritones in general as the resonance tone of most baritones is D#, but I may remember that incorrectly.
 
I'm late to this thread, but I have to wonder what you mean by "muddy"? To me, muddy would mean no articulation, no clearity, or note separation. I have a Pono baritone, in spruce/mahogany, and do not find that to be the case in the least. I have tried a few different tunings on it and am currently back in normal linear DGBE tuning for now. I prefer Bb tuning on the Bari, but like to change it up every now and then for some variety.

The Bari is quite different from the other uke scales, and is not for everybody. I doubt your Pono is an inferior instrument, maybe try a higher tuning. The tuning and resonance of the body can make all the difference in the world. That is one of the reasons I don't like low g on my tenors, to close to the resonance of the body and just sounds to "boomy" and that low just drones on to much for my taste. Many absolutely love it, so whatever works for your ear.
 
one of the reasons I don't like low g on my tenors, to close to the resonance of the body and just sounds to "boomy" and that low just drones on to much for my taste.

I feel the same way, though I had tried low-G on my tenor for about five minutes before putting a high-G string back and tuning it re-entrant Bb, so I didn't give it much of a chance. I now also experience this now with my baritone with a low-D. It's very low and boomy, which initially I thought was powerful, but after a few hours started to "feel" uncomfortable in the ears. I can't really describe it well, it just seemed to overwhelm my ears? It's why I'll try the high-D set as soon as it comes in the mail (should be a week or so).
 
I've found that strumming with a low-D string on a baritone improves with the scale length. A 20"+ scale baritone will sound better strumming than a smaller 19" scale. Alternatively switching to high-D will make strumming sound "better" (ie. the tigher, closer sound we expect in reentrant tuning).

On my 19" scale bari, I use low-D, but I play almost exclusively, slower, finger-style pieces. On my 20" bari, I use a high-D and it works great for strumming.
 
As far as tenor guitar (or banjo, as you'd have it) goes, I 100% agree that Chicago tuning is far, far easier than "standard" or original tenor guitar tuning (CGDA, like a cello.) However, the chord voicings are quite different. I think the CGDA tuning has a more naturally jazzy feel inherently, but it's not as though you can't pull off jazz in DGBE. It's laughably beyond my understanding of pythagorean theorems, but it has to do with the space between the notes of the open strings, or tuning to 4ths as opposed to 5ths.

Anyone here ever try CGDA tuning on a uke?

I know there are people who do this sort of thing, but we've always seen problems with Linear 5ths tuning on any Ukulele. The wide spacing simply works better with steel strings than with classicals.

We do have a page of 5ths tuning sets, however. A number are out of stock at the moment, as we are in the midst of material updates. But these are reentrant 5th tuning sets which we feel work much better on Ukuleles and with classical strings. They are still traditional forms, however, coming from both the Banjo and the Tenor Guitar.

If you go to that page on our website, there are two sound samples. The first is the true "strum" set, or as in the case of this demo, a beautiful chord melody. It's the original Eddie Freeman set-up on a Tenor Guitar. You'll have to use your imagination for how this will sound on an Ukulele, but it's still a deep-toned set-up that can be used for chord melody or strumming.

The second sample requires little imagination, as it's a Tenor Banjo tuning known as high 4th, and in this video it's played on an Ukulele. It's shown more or less in a picking style, which it's well suited for, but it can also be a strum set as well. It won't have as deep a sound as the EFS (most 5ths set-ups are not particualrly deep sounding) but is more versatile.
 
https://youtu.be/RElarmDDVrE

Here's Ed Grosso, a veteran master strummer who's got several ukulele videos on youtube. He plays the soprano, or this lower tuned tenor/baritone uke. The sound is so so, but all of Ed's videos are prime examples of strumming, not to mention barre chords all over the neck. Unfortunately, Mr Grosso hasn't posted for several years, though as far as I know, he's still with us. I have learned a lot from the stuff he's put out, and I'm happy to share it.
 
https://youtu.be/RElarmDDVrE

Here's Ed Grosso, a veteran master strummer who's got several ukulele videos on youtube. He plays the soprano, or this lower tuned tenor/baritone uke. The sound is so so, but all of Ed's videos are prime examples of strumming, not to mention barre chords all over the neck. Unfortunately, Mr Grosso hasn't posted for several years, though as far as I know, he's still with us. I have learned a lot from the stuff he's put out, and I'm happy to share it.

Thank You for sharing, this man is a very great player, just as you are.
Do you know if it is possible to find baritone songs sheets of his performances.
 
https://youtu.be/RElarmDDVrE

Here's Ed Grosso, a veteran master strummer who's got several ukulele videos on youtube. He plays the soprano, or this lower tuned tenor/baritone uke. The sound is so so, but all of Ed's videos are prime examples of strumming, not to mention barre chords all over the neck. Unfortunately, Mr Grosso hasn't posted for several years, though as far as I know, he's still with us. I have learned a lot from the stuff he's put out, and I'm happy to share it.
Wow... this is some great stuff: thanks! I followed Mr. Grosso's Google+ link (https://plus.google.com/108459820581085292294/posts) and learned a bit more about him, including the fact that his father was Eddie Grosso, a fine reed player with Fred Hall's Jazz Band cr. 1928...

I'll be watching his stuff hoping to learn just a little bit of the fine stuff he does. Thanks again.
 
Do you know if it is possible to find baritone songs sheets of his performances.

Grosso never published anything but the videos, I suppose. The songs are old standards, which are obtainable from a variety of sources. To avoid straying from the OP's subject; his tenor/baritone videos prove that strumming can be done on a DGBE instrument, and to great effect at that.
 
... I find that the four string format, with the linear DGBE ('Chicago tuning') makes jazz rhythm playing much easier. On that kind of tuning - on guitar or baritone ukulele - I can play jazz tunes in any key. Barre chords are so much easier, and keys which are difficult for me on six strings, such as for instance Eb, is a breeze on four strings. So now, I may double as a pianist AND a rhythm guitar/uke player in swing, dixieland or trad New Orleans jazz bands. I like that a lot.

Let me throw out another possibility for a tuning for your new career, Doc. We've always said you get a cleaner sound out of a Baritone in linear tuning if you move up from G tuning to A. This is a tuning you don't hear that much about - B flat has some notoriety because of Cliff Edwards (Tenor / reentrant) and because a lot of Jazz is written there to accomodate horns.

Now I don't know what sort of bands you're thinking of playing in - a horn band may very well be what you have in mind. But possibly for you, and even more likely for those thinking of playing with guitars, A tuning could be the ticket. I say "could be" because I seldom play in a group setting, so I don't know about these things from first hand experience. But A tuning was practically invented by a "neighbor" of yours, Axel Richter from Germany - the author of the Ukulele Handbook. For those who haven't seen that book, it's a just simple chord book, but a complete one and in 6 different tunings. It's still in print from Mel Bay.

What Axel told me a number of years back (I hope he's still around) is that he found that tuning to be perfect for playing with guitarists. The transposed chords, he said, were easy to play and sounded great. His friends were mostly guitarists, and his "invention" gave him a sound that fit him right into the groups. He was likely talking about reentrant tuning, and again you may know about this better than me, but I had heard that reentrant A tuning was widespread throughout Scandanavia on the Tenor Ukulele in the '80s & '90s because of his book.

It occured to me that you might want to consider it (or at least others playing in different types of bands), simply because of the clearer sound, the altered phrasing and a pitch that is likely to differentiate the sound from guitars.
 
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Please can you remind what the A reentrant tuning is.
 
I have one of my baritones tuned one step up from standard tuning to E, A, C#, F# this is in linear tuning. I don't know if that is the tuning Dirk is referring to or not

Do you have audio or video where I can hear this tuning, thank you.
 
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