Lack of voice in my Myrtlewood Concert

I'm with Tim on this one. We are talking about replacing bridge patches, removing and replacing bracing and removing bridges? Major surgery here. Lot of work and potential disaster lurks. Sounds like a potential "gumption trap", ie, steals your gumption (as well as time). Maybe just hang it up and start a new one. Live and learn. Good luck. I think it is called engineering by failure.... As far as the mahogany bracing. Great stuff, but maybe best matched to mahogany tops. "Like-to-like" is a great maxim. Can't beat spruce to spruce.
 
You put Aquila High g on an overbraced instrument and stated that it sounds tinny like that shouldn't have been the expectation.

+1 to what Duane said, both times.

Im referencing how the uke sounds compared to others I have with the same strings... I have a soprano that has a louder voice and does not sound as tinny. it has Aquilas.. i have 2 tenors that are louder and have Aquilas and are not anywhere as tinny as the concert. acutally all the ukes I have that have Aquila's on them are louder and do not have as much treble..
So why ask a question like this? Im reading it like.. "what did you expect moron?"
I appreciate the input...
As far as using mahogany... Its a harder wood...Its more dense....
I was just reading about hide glue and they say that the glue is good for instrument building due to its hardness when drying..
The harder it is the more sound it passes on.. Softer drying glues Absorb the sound.. I know for a fact that the harder woods do the same thing..
If Spruce is soft and mahogany is hard I would think the same rule follows.
I do wonder why Stew-Mac and LMII sell bridge patches for guitars that are spruce though..I havent quite figured that one out if mahogany is the kine wood to use for that application.
as far as the french polish goes I was addressing the fact that I cant spray lacquer due to the weather at this time as I spray it outside and I should learn to do Fpolish as this would make that aspect of stopping my finishing the instrument a mute point. Not to mention being able to apply the Fpolish in the winter indoors here as I dont have a place to spray lacquer inside. I dont have a spray booth in my small shop. Not to mention Im not a professional builder as many here are.
 
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I'm with Tim on this one. We are talking about replacing bridge patches, removing and replacing bracing and removing bridges? Major surgery here. Lot of work and potential disaster lurks. Sounds like a potential "gumption trap", ie, steals your gumption (as well as time). Maybe just hang it up and start a new one. Live and learn. Good luck. I think it is called engineering by failure.... As far as the mahogany bracing. Great stuff, but maybe best matched to mahogany tops. "Like-to-like" is a great maxim. Can't beat spruce to spruce.

Thanks for the input Sequoia... I agree with you... Im going to let it be a learning experience.. I may try higher tension strings and call it good...
 
Mahogany or maple or whatever hardwood you can come up with are not good choices for bracing wood. Again, brace wood should be light in weight, stiff, well quartered. and seasoned. Never in all the instruments I have repaired over the years have I seen hardwood braces on the top plate of any instrument. 'The harder a wood the more sound passes through' - is not true, that is not how the system works. I would highly suggest doing some research and reading on the subject, there are many good books out there. Good luck in the future.

Im referencing how the uke sounds compared to others I have with the same strings... I have a soprano that has a louder voice and does not sound as tinny. it has Aquilas.. i have 2 tenors that are louder and have Aquilas and are not anywhere as tinny as the concert. acutally all the ukes I have that have Aquila's on them are louder and do not have as much treble..
So why ask a question like this? Im reading it like.. "what did you expect moron?"
I appreciate the input...
As far as using mahogany... Its a harder wood...Its more dense....
I was just reading about hide glue and they say that the glue is good for instrument building due to its hardness when drying..
The harder it is the more sound it passes on.. Softer drying glues Absorb the sound.. I know for a fact that the harder woods do the same thing..
If Spruce is soft and mahogany is hard I would think the same rule follows.
I do wonder why Stew-Mac and LMII sell bridge patches for guitars that are spruce though..I havent quite figured that one out if mahogany is the kine wood to use for that application.
as far as the french polish goes I was addressing the fact that I cant spray lacquer due to the weather at this time as I spray it outside and I should learn to do Fpolish as this would make that aspect of stopping my finishing the instrument a mute point. Not to mention being able to apply the Fpolish in the winter indoors here as I dont have a place to spray lacquer inside. I dont have a spray booth in my small shop. Not to mention Im not a professional builder as many here are.
 
Mahogany or maple or whatever hardwood you can come up with are not good choices for bracing wood. Again, brace wood should be light in weight, stiff, well quartered. and seasoned. Never in all the instruments I have repaired over the years have I seen hardwood braces on the top plate of any instrument. 'The harder a wood the more sound passes through' - is not true, that is not how the system works. I would highly suggest doing some research and reading on the subject, there are many good books out there. Good luck in the future.


BlackBearUkes....
Thanks for the honest info..
I have been reading... but apparently not enough..
I will continue to do so and hopefully it will lead to better results..
I have questions and I appreciate cordial and kind answers.. and I thank you for taking the time to offer your advice. Do you know of any of the good books you mentioned off the top of your head?
There isnt alot of readily available info on what I was trying to do with the concert. I couldnt find plans very easily but finally came across some at LMII. but the build was almost done..and I had gone by some drawings my Father-in-Law had partially transposed from some soprano plans.
I didnt realize I overbuilt the ukes bracing until I strung it up.. If I had known that using the mahogany would do that especially the way i left it, I wouldnt have gone that route and would have looked for the spruce. Not to mention that my Father-in-Law isnt around anymore to ask... I know that its difficult to fully communicate via this medium as there is no way to get every detail down.
Ive built 2 ukes with people and this one was by myself..So thats 3 kind of.
So I am a white belt so to speak when it comes to this experience..
I appreciate the well wishes...
 
So sorry you are unhappy with the sound of your uke, it's certainly beautiful. Keep trying!!
Maybe you already know about these websites but have you checked out David Hurd's ukuleles.com or Frank Ford's frets.com? Lots of great information in these. In Hurd's website he describes compliance testing which really helped me be consistent and develop my "sound". Helps give you a place to start too.
 
For the future, it's often really helpful to understand how the instrument works, which can help in making and designing it.

Thus in your case, once you know the top is the main producer of sound, you know that this requires the most thought.

The top works by taking the energy in the strings and turning it into vibrations in the top, which move the air to make sound. So, fairly obviously, this tells you three things:

1. If the top is too stiff it won't move much, so it won't make much volume. If it's floppy it is unlikely to make a nice sound (think cardboard).

2. If the top is too heavy, you get the same result.

3. If the top is too flexible the uke will fold in half when strung up.

So you want a top which is light, stiff but flexible.

Bracing and bridge plate and bridge all add to the mass of the top, so you need to keep these light (OK, bridges can be too light but that's the advanced course, and for a uke it's hard to make a bridge too light!). So you want the lightest possible wood which is stiff enough to work as a brace - as many have said, spruce fits the bill well. Mahogany is heavier for the same stiffness.

The bridge plate is a brace, but also stops the strings from pulling through. Spruce dents easily, mahogany less so. So this suggests mahogany (or similar), but very thin. If you don't use a pinned bridge then you don't have to worry about the strings pulling through, so spruce again.

Top thickness needs to give you stiff but flexible after you've added the bracing and patch, so you thickness it accordingly. Any numbers you read are just rough starting places, because each piece of wood differs even from consecutive cuts from the same plank. So flex your top when thinning it to decide where to stop. If you are more scientific/engineering minded, measure its deflection under a known load to decide when it's the right thickness.

Good luck with future builds!
 
You misunderstand. I didn't ask a question alluding to mental degradation; merely stating a variable that would lead to an expected result, which is known. Aquila's are great for bring out some volume in instruments that lack it, but realistically, they're not known to produce tone in better instruments. That you have it on more than 1 instrument in your quiver, you should already know where it benefits, and where improvements can be made. A string change, as already stated by others (and is what I alluded to as well), may be a good start.

As for French polish, I apologize that I may have misunderstood. Seem you were stating it as a solution in the context of the thread. I've done a couple FP, only to redo it in nitro.

Also, I agree with Ken that I would just build another one rather than repair this one, normally. The statement about building it for your father (sorry) lends a value to the instrument that only you know. This I certainly get, and hope you find resolve in this instrument. Or, build another one, next to it, for him.

Sorry Kekani.... I misunderstood and I appreciate the clarification..
I really do want to get this right and Ive tryed to do my homework on it. It is what it is.. I was hoping I could remedy the situation without too much work but it looks like its not possible.. I agree with the majority of people including you that its a live and learn situation and I need to do just that.. I appreciate the input.. I really do..
Thanks
 
So sorry you are unhappy with the sound of your uke, it's certainly beautiful. Keep trying!!
Maybe you already know about these websites but have you checked out David Hurd's ukuleles.com or Frank Ford's frets.com? Lots of great information in these. In Hurd's website he describes compliance testing which really helped me be consistent and develop my "sound". Helps give you a place to start too.

Its ok.. Im going to make more.. hopefully I wont repeat this process again... thanks for the websites.. I know of Fords... I hadnt heard of Davids... Ill check it out...
 
For the future, it's often really helpful to understand how the instrument works, which can help in making and designing it.

Thus in your case, once you know the top is the main producer of sound, you know that this requires the most thought.

The top works by taking the energy in the strings and turning it into vibrations in the top, which move the air to make sound. So, fairly obviously, this tells you three things:

1. If the top is too stiff it won't move much, so it won't make much volume. If it's floppy it is unlikely to make a nice sound (think cardboard).

2. If the top is too heavy, you get the same result.

3. If the top is too flexible the uke will fold in half when strung up.

So you want a top which is light, stiff but flexible.

Bracing and bridge plate and bridge all add to the mass of the top, so you need to keep these light (OK, bridges can be too light but that's the advanced course, and for a uke it's hard to make a bridge too light!). So you want the lightest possible wood which is stiff enough to work as a brace - as many have said, spruce fits the bill well. Mahogany is heavier for the same stiffness.

The bridge plate is a brace, but also stops the strings from pulling through. Spruce dents easily, mahogany less so. So this suggests mahogany (or similar), but very thin. If you don't use a pinned bridge then you don't have to worry about the strings pulling through, so spruce again.

Top thickness needs to give you stiff but flexible after you've added the bracing and patch, so you thickness it accordingly. Any numbers you read are just rough starting places, because each piece of wood differs even from consecutive cuts from the same plank. So flex your top when thinning it to decide where to stop. If you are more scientific/engineering minded, measure its deflection under a known load to decide when it's the right thickness.

Good luck with future builds!

Thank You ProfChris.. That really helps!!
 
I shaved the braces down in my second tenor. I used a bent rasp of sorts and went at them through the soundhole. It helped because it was overbraced but it wasn't fun.
 
I shaved the braces down in my second tenor. I used a bent rasp of sorts and went at them through the soundhole. It helped because it was overbraced but it wasn't fun.

I thought of using a bent wood chisel and going through the sound hole, like you said you did with the rasp... Like you also said... It wouldnt be any fun.. Im glad to hear that you were able to get some results by what you did..
 
..it is still beautiful ukulele and maybe one day it will open?
I made 7 sopranos and each one sounds different in sense of tone and projection. Do not worry - I am sure that it has its own specific character and you will find lots of fun with it:)

It has opened up quite a bit...i would play it almost everyday. I noticed it after a few months. i was amazed but had remembered what u had said.
I had also installed high tension strings which helped alot. After about a yr i believe it was about as loud as it was going to get. It still had alot of treble but it projected much more than it did when it was first built. U were right...it has its own character and I cant tell u how much i loved playing that uke..I recently gave it to my brother in hopes he will learn to play.
 
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