Ukulele Setup

Hi guys,

I wanted to ask a question about setup for a ukulele. I bought a Tribute TRI-UK6EQ here in Australia for $160 (approx USD120).

For the price, the tone of the instrument sounds really great to my ear but I noticed the intonation is off. Harmonics on the 12th fret match the open strings but fretting the 12th fret is sharp. The notes get progressively sharp from about the 5th-7th fret upwards depending on the string and all strings seem to be sharp by the same amount when fretted on the 12th.

Anyway, I called a guy to get a set up done and he said that in terms of intonation on a ukulele, you can never get it perfect but just have to get it close enough. Is this correct? I've seen on some websites that are selling Ukuleles with free setups that they promise to set it up so that each fret plays in tune so I'm a bit confused

I obviously don't want to pay $75 for someone to get it almost right when it's possible someone else could do the job right.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

I don't know a lot about set up, but I'd suggest checking the string height at the first (about 1mm) & 12th frets (about 3mm). Top of fret to bottom of string.

And, as you are appear to be new to ukes, check that you are not twisting the string as you fret it at higher up the neck.

I would defer to Booli as he has written about setup and intonation at length in the past. Fret length is generally a mathematical equation that every manufacturer and builder can follow. However, string action height can impact playability and technique, and hamper intonation further.

And the plain truth is that our system of intonation is a compromise anyway. We're just used to how it sounds.

I don't know if $75 is a good value for a set-up, not knowing luthier rates here in the USA or Australia. It might be worth it, but you should probably ask others about the work done by the luthier, etc (references).

My local Uke shop has set up many of my ukes for $15-20US. Yours probably has a saddle that is too high. Easy enough to fix with some sand paper and some careful hand work. Check out you tube for set up instructions. You slack the stings and pull out the saddle, mark off about half the part you think you should remove and sand it evenly. Reinstall and tune to check if its better, repeat until you get what you feel is acceptable. I'd buy a spare bone saddle first though, just in case, they are cheap enough to play with. Filing the nut slots is trickier.

IMHO, you will never have 'perfect intonation' on any instrument that does not have a 'fanned' freboard.

see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-scale_fingerboard and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQX-WgT0ACQ

Parallel frets on ANY instrument, whether guitar, mandolin, banjo, uke, etc are a mathematical compromise to give 'near perfect' intonation based upon the 12-tone equal temperament scale, which is an octave in length.

What this means is that near-perfect intonation is something that can only be approximated with parallel frets, and is dependant upon string gauge, string tension, string diameter as well as scale length.

So, sure you can get it perfectly dialed in so that it works and you are no more than +/- 1-2 cents with a specific set of strings, say Aquila Nylguts, but then if you change string materials, tension, and diameters to say, Worth CL, you intonation is now going to be WAY off.

With electric guitars that have adjustable saddles, when folks change string gauges, the guitar usually needs a whole new setup, which is not a big deal because all that's needed are the allen key for the truss rod, the allen key for the saddle height, and a Philips screwdriver for the saddle position.

On ukulele, you need to sand or file the saddle itself, and/or the nut to effect changes in intonation. In fact I have a few different saddles that I swap out on one uke, and each saddle is compensated specifically for a different set of strings.

Yes, there are DOZENS of different material compositions and diameters of strings, from about 20 different string companies, with more than 100 different sets of strings you can buy today.

Having said all this, intonation has been discussed over and again here on UU and I've already written a lot about it in other threads...

...might you be able to search on 'intonation' in the search box, and read some of those threads where I, and others even more knowledgeable have discussed this matter?

(if Lt. Dan feels obliged to remark at my "rudeness" for suggesting a search for an oft-hashed topic, I will consider that provocation and trolling, and THIS TIME, I will complain to the moderators, so just save it please)

So, is it WORTH it to get a uke from a vendor that does setup?

YES, unless you plan to do the work yourself and are expert at it/good at it/have lots of patience/are willing to learn.

Can vendors/luthiers/guitar-techs make it PERFECTLY in tune?

NO, this is not possible (not unless it is a fanned fretboard -see links at top), but it can be made really close, specifically for a single set of strings, and when you replace the strings, you need to install an identical set, otherwise you have a good chance that the saddle and nut compensation will be off with a different kind or different set of strings. Then you will need to either mangle your existing saddle, or buy another for $5-10 for Nubone or Tusq, and have THAT new SADDLE compensated for the NEW strings. You can swap them out easily when needed. Nothing is ZOMG-fatal here.

for a $160 uke I would not expect perfect intonation on the upper fret board 7+. Also, how often are you going to be playing past the 7th fret? usually not enough for the intonation to matter. Sometimes I like to bar my uke at the 5th fret and tune it there then recheck with open strings to get make sure it is still in tune.

If you really are playing a lot on the upper frets then I would say it is definetly worth it to pay someone to set it up right for you. If not then I would just make do.

It sounds like maybe the saddle is a little too high. If the harmonics are okay at the twelth fret then the fret positions are probably fine and the distortion is most likely being caused by bending/stretching of the string as you press down. Getting a set up done (or doing it yourself) will likely improve the intonation but, as has been said, it may never be perfect (but it could potentially be quite a bit better)

jollyboy said:

It sounds like maybe the saddle is a little too high. If the harmonics are okay at the twelth fret then the fret positions are probably fine and the distortion is most likely being caused by bending/stretching of the string as you press down. Getting a set up done (or doing it yourself) will likely improve the intonation but, as has been said, it may never be perfect (but it could potentially be quite a bit better)

Click to expand...

Yes, if saddle is too high, this will cause the intonation to be sharp.

I've found that if the string height is much greater than about 2.75mm or a hair above 3/32" that you can pull sharp, and if the action is much lower than about 2.25mm you are likely to get strings buzzing/slapping at the first 1-3 frets, which cannot be mitigated without a truss rod.

Hi Paul. I'm also in Aus and thinking of getting my Cordoba properly set-up. There doesn't seem to be any shops that do set-up as part of the service here. Let us know how you go. Plus if anyone has a recommendation for a good luthier in Melbourne, also let me know. Most of them seem to specialise in guitars and do ukes on the side.

There is value in learning how to set up your own instrument...unless you run into issues that you cannot identify (a pre-existing buzz, for example). There are many videos out there...I would direct you Barry Maz's GotaUkulele website (and his book, by the way) as well as the Ukulele Review Podcast where Joel talks at length about setting up ukuleles and how YOU can do it at home. There are some tools to buy...the most costly is a String Action Ruler (maybe a string winder)...otherwise fine sandpaper, a sanding block, masking tape, some fine steel wool, and perhaps some fretboard lemon oil...is all you need to set up your own ukuleles.

Thanks everyone for the input. Lots to take in there and all the help is very much appreciated! The string at the 12th fret is about 4mm so definitely a bit high. The idea of setting it up myself appeals to me but I'll likely get it set up this time by a professional and maybe next time after watching some youtube tutorials I'll try myself.

Thanks so much,
Paul

I pretty much agree with everyone else here. And by the way, 4mm at the 12th is way high. I just got through dealing with much the same issue on my cigar box ukulele that I built. But I would like to bring up on additional thing and that is learning to set it up yourself as some have suggested. At first, just getting the dealer to set my ukulele up was fine. Because you probably don't know what you want anyway, I sure didn't. So they can set it up to some formula and you will be fine. But later in your journey you may find that you do not like the way your dealer, or even your luthier, set it up. There is a gap between the extremes, and where you fit into that gap may at some point differ from that of someone else. It happened with me when I got a ukulele set up by the dealer. After I had played it a couple of years I went to changing the set up to more suit my tastes. So that is just something to think about in the future. I've never taken my ukulele to a luthier, but I would expect them to take some time determining what my individual taste is, not just lower the action, level the frets, and tell you it is good.

Pay the $75 and have the first one done.

If you want to tinker later then tinker once you know what is good. No fretted instrument will ever have perfect intonation end of story. Now if the guy you are going to doesn't understand why one would setup a ukulele then I would suggest finding another.

Fanned frets for proper intonation are old news. True Temperament frets are all the rage for guitar and bass: http://www.truetemperament.com/ Well rage maybe not but they are new tech.

~AL

There are many youtube videos and vendor articles on setup, and learning what can be done can be a money-saver. In general, the setup work for most stringed instruments (banjo being a tad different) is essentially the same, so info on guitar or mandolin setup shouldn't be ignored.

"Perfect intonation" is a noble but almost-impossible goal which may not matter, depending on how one plays. Example - If one never/rarely goes beyond the 7th or 8th fret, then all that really matters is that the intonation is fine at that furthest fret.

The tools necessary for the most common setup work (except fret dressing) can be as inexpensive as a US$5 set of welding rod tip cleaners (great round files!) and some fine-grain sandpaper. Just having these tools available for touch-up work rather than relying on a tech somewhere can prove quite handy.

SteveZ--you wrote

welding rod tip cleaners

Click to expand...

--they are welding TORCH tip cleaners, like thes:

https://www.amazon.com/torch-tip-cleaner/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:torch tip cleaner

When I needed to widen the string slot for my low G, these are what I used.

plastuku said:

SteveZ--you wrote

--they are welding TORCH tip cleaners, like thes:

https://www.amazon.com/torch-tip-cleaner/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:torch tip cleaner

When I needed to widen the string slot for my low G, these are what I used.

Click to expand...

Me too.

Initially I lower/cut down nut slots with a shortened and dull fine-tooth hacksaw blade (so as not to remove too much material in each pass, which then requires a do-over) and then when nearly at the spot for good intonation/action at the 1st and 2nd frets, I use the proper diameter (by feel and fit usually) torch tip cleaner to smooth out the slot and make sure it has a round profile at the bottom where the string rests.

Checking with a tuner, after each adjustment.

This is usually NOT a 5 minute process, but is more dependent upon how much the nut slots have to come down, which is different for each string, since thicker strings will have a greater arc of movement when vibrating than thinner strings.

Some folks will sand the bottom of the nut, but that never works for me, and I always ended up having to shim the nut and start over from the slots as mentioned.

I just use cheap as all hell Harbor Freight files and finesse.

http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?89687-Blueprinting-Smiley! I think sanding the bottom of the nut is never good advice.