D and Bb tuning

This time I want to talk about D and Bb tuning.

Jake Shimabukuro plays tenor and Ohta-san plays soprano. Of course their tuning is C in usual. It is C instrument (instrument which key is C). Imagine they gave their ukuleles to your friend. And your friend wanted to tune it in Bb and D. How do you explain them to stay C? I think I would explain that Jake and Ohta-san plays C, C must be good tuning for these ukulele. This is a case with Jake and Ohta-san.

If your friend told you that they wanted to change their tuning into D or Bb, can you explain why it wrong is? This time their ukuleles are their own ukulele, not the presents from Jake or Ohta-san. Actually it is bit hard. Because if they wanted such tuning, their knowledge and experience may be very low. We need to explain it with very basic knowledge. It is like explaining to primary school student. Ok, I try it.

how do i print screen

Even a primary school student knows harmonica. I use harmonica for this explanation this time. I play blues harp. There are 12 harps by 12 keys. We use C harp for key of C song (this is only 1st position, I don't talk 2nd and 3rd positions here). It is very easy to play key of C song on key of C harp. But it is hard to play it on key of D or Bb. I play blues harp, but I can not play C major scale on D or Bb (see the figure above). And even a best players play C song better on C than D or Bb. Playability links to better sound. Same things happens on ukulele.

pic host

They may ask me this. But D tuning sounds better than C tuning. But this time, they should check C chord on D tuning and C chord on C tuning. They should not just compare D on D and C on C.

One way to explain it is that any/all chords can be played on a uke tuned in the traditional C tuning, so songs in any key can be played.

Another way to explain it is that tuning to D would put more stress on the neck and bridge/belly of the uke. Tuning a string instrument higher than it is constructed to support can lead to serious issues such as warping of the belly, or bending of the neck so that intonation and tone are compromised. Similarly, tuning an instrument a whole step below what it is designed for can result in softer/weaker sound, and the placement of the frets might not give good intonation for different keys from what the instrument is built for.

Having explained all that to your friend, let him follow his own ideas and try things out -- if he's happy with the change and the sound tuned to the different keys, let him be with it. You'll have done all you can and if it makes him happy, great.

Tuning and string tension are entirely unrelated. Just pick the proper gauges.
And tenor ukes where originally designed for Bb tuning anyway, that's why they are called tenors.

The names of the ukes refer to the range of the human voice:

Soprano: C
Tenor: Bb
Alto: A
Baritone: G

Uh-oh. Someone needs to tell James Hill, he's doing it wrong.

Hill uses mostly low A tuning, which is also a good tuning for tenor.
Above, I was refering to reentrant.

Guitars and Ukuleles are often tuned to what's convenient, not what gets the best out of the instrument.
Jake Shimabukuro years back used "G Bb F A" tuning ("Dragon"). He thought it sounded great, but he stopped, because he felt he lost connection with the ukulele base that way.

Thank you very much guys!

I see it is bit difficult to explain the advantage of C tuning to primary school student.

There is one sense in which a ukulele really is a C instrument---it's non-transposing, unlike a lot of wind instruments.

That doesn't really have any bearing, however, on whether C tuning is inherently better for the ukulele. I will say that, coming from the violin family, it is a little surprising that soprano, concert, and tenor ukuleles are standardly tuned to the same tuning. I will also note that Baroque specialists typically tune about a half-step below A 440 (and sometimes even lower)---they still think of their violins, e.g., as GDAE, but to the modern ear, they sound as G-flat D-flat A-flat E-flat.

daviddecom said:

There is one sense in which a ukulele really is a C instrument---it's non-transposing, unlike a lot of wind instruments.

Click to expand...

Hi, David! Thank you again for the reply!

This is interesting point. But if you don't admit that Viola is C instrument and Violin is G instrument, we can not discuss this. Or even if you don't admit that piano is C instrument, we can not.

This thread show you the reason of C instrument, although the thread was written for anther plot.

daviddecom said:

There is one sense in which a ukulele really is a C instrument---it's non-transposing, unlike a lot of wind instruments.

Click to expand...

Sorry, that's wrong. I treat all my ukes as a transposing instrument. If it's Bb tenor, i can read off a Bb trumpet chart and use the C chord shapes. If it's Eb cuatro, I can read off a Eb alto sax chart and still use the C chord. Etc.

If you want all your ukes tuned to C, fine, that's your choice. But saying that's "the only way" or even "the best way" is simply an expression of opinion, not a fact.

Jim Hanks said:

Sorry, that's wrong. I treat all my ukes as a transposing instrument. If it's Bb tenor, i can read off a Bb trumpet chart and use the C chord shapes. If it's Eb cuatro, I can read off a Eb alto sax chart and still use the C chord. Etc.

Click to expand...

In your sense, any instrument can be treated as a transposing instrument. But David is absolutely correct in saying that uke is a non-transposing instrument as the term is normally applied—it is not the convention that music for uke is written in a different key than it is intended to sound.

ubulele said:

In your sense, any instrument can be treated as a transposing instrument.

Click to expand...

Yes! My point exactly!

ubulele said:

But David is absolutely correct in saying that uke is a non-transposing instrument as the term is normally applied—it is not the convention that music for uke is written in a different key than it is intended to sound.

Click to expand...

Ok, I get that point. Same as guitar although with guitar it is more common to have written music with "capo at 2" (or whatever) which is treating it as a transposing instrument in the conventional sense.

The viola is a C instrument in the same sense as the ukulele or piano (i.e., non-transposing), but in that sense, so is the violin. I'm not sure what you mean when you say the violin is a G instrument.

Thanks---I did indeed just mean to point out that there was a narrow sense in which the ukulele is a C instrument. I definitely didn't mean that that should have any bearing on how anyone chooses to tune theirs.

When violinists use scordatura, they typically notate as it's played rather than as it sounds. So, for example, Paganini wrote his first violin concerto in E-flat but notated the solo part as if it were in D and just tuned his violin up a half step, which sounds like what you're doing with your ukulele in B-flat or E-flat.

David

Hi, Bill! Thank you for the reply!

I wanted to explain why C tuning easy is to primary school student in this thread? Is that right? I don't say C is the only tuning on ukulele.

C is easiest key on the music sheet. And We can play it easy on C instruments. If it were D, we can play it is easy and sound nice on D instruments. I have already explain it with harmonica. It may be the easiest explanation for primary school student.

photo storage

daviddecom said:

The viola is a C instrument in the same sense as the ukulele or piano (i.e., non-transposing), but in that sense, so is the violin. I'm not sure what you mean when you say the violin is a G instrument.

Click to expand...

Thanks you reply David!

Could you read this thread?

We have once talked about that in this forum.

Okay, I'm gonna jump in cos I'm getting steadily more confused by this thread as time goes on

What I think I'm hearing is that (in a nutshell) on a ukulele tuned GCEA it's easy to play songs in the key of C, because the chord shapes are easier to form. Honestly that doesn't seem like such a huge revelation

What I'm not understanding is why that supposedly means that it's bad to tune your uke to a different key. If I tune my uke A, D, F#, B then it becomes easier (following the logic of the original argument) to play songs in the key of D.

To revisit the blues harp analogy - if I were a professional player I would have a bunch of different harps, all in different keys and I would select the harp that would allow me to play in the key I wanted to play in at any given moment. So, why shouldn't I have a bunch of ukes, all in different tunings, and just use the same shapes to play in different keys. And, in fact, George Formby, who couldn't read music, did exactly that.

I rest my case

I must be missing something when it comes to playing a blues harmonica. Guys I used to play in a band with would use an A when we played in E key; a C when we played in G key etc.

Patrick Madsen said:

I must be missing something when it comes to playing a blues harmonica. Guys I used to play in a band with would use an A when we played in E key; a C when we played in G key etc.

Click to expand...

Yeah the original example is a bit confusing as first position wouldn't really be used to play blues. Still - the one harp, one key thing does hold water.

zztush said:

.... But if you don't admit that Viola is C instrument and Violin is G instrument, we can not discuss this. Or even if you don't admit that piano is C instrument, we can not.

Click to expand...

I am a violinist, playing in several amateur orchestras, and can assure you that we do NOT think of them as being G or C instruments. It's true that it is easier to play in sharp keys than flat, and also sound brighter because there is more natural resonance to be had from the open strings, but that's all. They are not transposing instruments, i.e. the music is written at the pitch they play. It's nonsense to say they are in G or C just because that is the pitch of the bottom string.

I've never heard the piano described as being in C either, for good reason - it plays in any key. Although for beginners the key of C seems easier as it does not use the 'black' notes, it is technically easier to play in 5 sharps or flats as the actual notes on the keyboard lie better under the shape of the hand. That's why so much of Chopin's music, for example, has lots of sharps or flats. A long time ago when I was really quite good at the piano, I found it much easier to play a C# major scale evenly than a C major one. Mind you, sight-reading in C# maj was more daunting!

Thank you very much jollyboy and ukatee

Ukatee, tuning is like this.

image post

We normally tune them in this way in order to get maximum harmony in strings instruments. The idea is that string instruments can be tuned perfect way hence we tune them in perfect relationships. Therefore we normally do not have imperfect in-between tunings. F is perfect 4th from C but do not work with G in this system, F and G are not perfect relationship. By the way, in this thread I just want to explain the advantage of C tuning to primary school students.