fret marker positions

valde002

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Does anyone know the history about the fret markers? And why they are where they are? I think they follow the guitar, but isn't the guitar tuned differently and with different intervals (esp with re-entrant tuning). Doesn't make sense to me.

Anyone develop a better system for the ukulele?
 
I've seen reference to the fret markers being a left-over from when capos where a bolt-on device that actually screwed through the neck ... the fret markers were hole-blanks! How true that is I don't know!

The tuning intervals on a conventionally strung ukulele are the same as a conventionally tuned guitar.

What I do find confusing is how my ukuleles have markings at 3, 5, 7 and 10 but my guitars have their marks at 3, 5, 7 and 9 ... then there's my balalaika with it's marks at 2, 5, 7 and 10 ... no-one said it was going to be easy :confused:
 
Yes, the pitches on guitar are different from the (C) ukulele, but the intervals between the top strings of the guitar are exactly the same as on an ukulele in linear fleas tuning.

As for the markers, there's a fair bit of variation. Most standard are markers at least at the 5th, 7th and 12th frets; the 12th fret is sometimes marked with double dots or a more distinctive marker, and the 7th may be treated this way as well. Guitars tend to have a marker at the 9th fret whereas on ukuleles (now) a marker at the 10th fret is more common. Some guitars and ukes will also have a marker at the 15th fret and, less commonly, at the 3rd fret. Guitars may also mark the 17th and 19th frets. This pattern is also used for a number of other fretted instruments: my banjo has markers at the 3rd, 5th 7th, 10th, 13th, 15th, 17th and 19th frets. Note that banjo tunings typically have little relation to guitar tunings; it's not the tuning pattern that dictates the marker placement as much as the intervals above the open string pitch: the 5th fret marks an interval of a perfect fourth, the 7th marker corresponds to a perfect 5th, the 12th marker corresponds to the octave—the note names above the 12th marker exactly duplicate those on the lower fretboard. The other markers are more arbitrary, providing supplemental reference points between these main positions—unnecessarily, in my opinion; and in fact, I find that the increased visual clutter and uniformity confuses me rather than helps me to navigate.

My ideal marker set for an ukulele would be 5th, 7th, 12th (doubled), 17th, with 10th optional (I'd omit it on a custom), with side markers or left-edge markers mandatory. I've ruled out buying some very good uke brands because they omit the side markers, making all but pros lean over the fretboard or tilt their ukes out of best playing position. Egregious.

I can't help you with the history.


Same for me. I choose a kanilea over a kamaka for that reason. I don't use the front markers at all, I'd like to see them gone altogether, i think it looks better and would reinforce good playing habits for new players.
When i can afford a custom plain ebony all the way down, hubba hubba.
 
Hi, valde002!

The 5th, 7th and 12th fret markers are given in this manner shown below.

20mb image hosting

These locations are given by ratio. Hence ukulele and guitar have similar fret markers.

They are useful for tuning (perfect 4th) and locations of notes, scales and chords. And guitar and ukulele share these methods.
 
I also think they are more useful on the side than on the front, & would go so far as to say they should be fairly prominent on both sides of the fretboard edge - for left & right handed players.
 
Funny, my new Martin sopranos and concert ukes have fret markers at 5, 7, and 10, but the side dots are 5, 7, 10, 12, and 15.

My tenors however have fret markers at 5, 7, 10, 12 and 15! Side dots are 5, 7, 10, 12, and 15.

Strange minor differences.

Petey
 
I don't use the front markers at all, I'd like to see them gone altogether, i think it looks better and would reinforce good playing habits for new players. When i can afford a custom plain ebony all the way down, hubba hubba.

Ditto - nothing as nice as a plain, unadorned smooth ebony fingerboard!

bratsche
 
Fretboard top: 5-7-12. Fretboard side: 3-5-7-9/10-12(double)-15.

I would like to see a good explanation for the 9/10 marker. I've read unconvincing explanations, but nothing compelling.

John
 
Does anyone know the history about the fret markers? And why they are where they are? I think they follow the guitar, but isn't the guitar tuned differently and with different intervals (esp with re-entrant tuning). Doesn't make sense to me.

Anyone develop a better system for the ukulele?
Is there any way to add fret markers on the side of the fret board? Would that be a luthier job?
 
Is there any way to add fret markers on the side of the fret board? Would that be a luthier job?
Stickers, sharpies, little dots of paint or nail polish or white-out.

Drilling and inserting a colored plug if you have a steady had or a good jig.
 
The guitar seems to be the odd one out. Ukuleles, banjos, mandolins, tiples have the position marker at the 10th fret, while guitars seem to have it at the 9th fret. In 1970, I bought an Aria 12 string guitar that had a position marker at the 10th fret. It made playing up the neck awkward for me, so I installed side dots at the correct guitar positions.

A few years ago I bought a Banojette banjolele with a twisted neck. A Peterborough luthier built me a new neck that lookes lovely, but he put the dots where they would be on a guitar. Luckily, I don't play much "up the neck" stuff on this instrument, so I won't have to modify it.

My first banjo, that I bought with the money I saved when I quit smoking 45 years ago, has gone through so many incarnations that it has been dubbed the "Frankenstein Banjo". It spent a few years as a fretless, and when I installed a new fretboard, I was in a hurry and installed a 9th fret position dot. I finally removed it, filled the hole with a yellow glue/rosewood dust mix, and moved the dot to the 10th fret. I gave this banjo to my niece, Steph about a decade ago.


Here's the Banjoette banjolele. Notice the 9th fret dot.
banjoette new neck.jpg
Here's Steph playing the "Frankenstein Banjo" at Guelph's Hillside Festival.
Steph at Hillside, Guelph.jpg
 
Does anyone know the history about the fret markers? And why they are where they are? I think they follow the guitar, but isn't the guitar tuned differently and with different intervals (esp with re-entrant tuning). Doesn't make sense to me.

Anyone develop a better system for the ukulele?
I've often wondered about this, there are a lot of theories, anecdotes and opinions but the definitive answer seems too be lost in the mists of time.
Jim Yates says that the guitar is the odd one out and this ties in with a version that I found some time ago.
Back in the day, when a guitar neck/body join at fret 12 was the norm, marker 10 was shifted to fret 9 to be visually more symmetrical with fret 15.
It was an interview with Steve Cropper years ago that first raised my awareness of this. When asked about the signature riffs on songs like Knock on Wood and In the Midnight Hour, he replied with something like, "Oh, I don't know, I just follow the dots." (i.e. fret markers)
Following this logic places the marker on fret 10.
There is probably some sound musical theory/reason for the marker positions but I have yet to find it.
Vintage
 
“Does anyone know the history about the fret markers? And why they are where they are?”

Because I also wanted to know the answer to the OP I started a thread similar to this one, I’ve searched for that thread but to my frustration I can’t find it. As far as I can remember some useful answers turned up but nothing that was conclusive.

I don’t know much about pentatonic scales but suspect that the answer lies there (as Ripock suggests). If I fret the A string at any dot marked position (3, 5, 7, 10, 12) and play the other notes open then I get a chord. Against the open string the dots progressively give intervals of third (minor), fourth, fifth, seventh and eighth (octave).
 
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I'm mainly a soprano player. My Martin S-0, for example, has no fretboard or side markers at all, so I place a single side stick-on "dot" marker on the side (where I can easily see it), at the "fifth fret" location. With that little marker at that location to keep me grounded, I'm pretty much okay! (Those stick-on dots are sold online by a place called Gollihur Music, which is primarily a resource for upright bass players; the dots are very inexpensive "per sheet" and have great sticking power; and the company gives fantastic service, even to the customer who's only spending a few bucks.)
 
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