Making Sense of Chords - Blah!

Well, Jim, thanks for the info, but I was wondering if one can omit some of the chords in a tune without completely ruining it. Learning and remembering chords has turned out to be a lot more difficult for me than I thought it would be. Learning new stuff is ponderously slow because of my inability to remember (quickly) what I've already learned.

Anyway, since I'm at the brink, I'm looking for shortcuts around the obstacles, so I can enjoy playing more. :eek:ld:
 
BB King didn't learn his chords until his mid-40's
 
I myself play some songs a little fast and loose with both lyrics and chords. I hear people talk about playing songs correctly but I don't know what correctly means. I guess correctly means reflecting back to it, what is printed on the page in front of you. I hear a lot of people who demonstrate their vast knowledge of music by pointing out that the Iz interpretation of Over the Rainbow is wrong. What does that mean? That he does not play it the same as someone else played it before him? How can a person's own interpretation of a song be wrong? I have several Bob Dylan albums and I listen to a lot of Bob Dylan music on the radio, and Bob himself never sings a song the same way twice. When Pete Seeger wrote "Where Have All the Flowers Gone, there was only three verses to it. A fellow named Joe Hickerson came along and changed Pete's last verse, then turned right around and added another. It is Joe's song that most of us recognize and sing, so I guess if we are truly purists we can say that Pete wrote his song wrong, because later Pete would sing Joe's rendition of the song. So who was correct, Pete or Joe? I mean, if we want to play the song correctly, don't we have to determine that? Anyway, I guess this turned into a bit of a rant. Sorry about that, but it is something that gets under my skin sometimes.
 
BB King didn't learn his chords until his mid-40's

But I'm almost twice that age! And I have learned my chords--over and over! I just don't wanna learn a bunch more. I'm mostly happy with what I got. If only song writers would back off some.

Well, this thread has cleared my head a bit. I guess I'll just hafta find a way to "git 'er done".
 
This is a great thread, and it is easy to get an overcomplicated answer.

To really understand the "why" of why chords work requires one of two things: an innate understanding of chords (e.g. Phil's mention of BB King) or a deep understanding of theory. Ubulele summed things up in context of the second as about plainly and succinctly as possible without understanding theory.

I would just add that some chords are added (or changed) to add interest and color. Usually these chords also fit into the rules of theory (there are always exceptions)--and even music theorists will have to try to explain some things that may not have an explanation.

My advice: just focus on playing the chords right and singing the melody correctly (which you already do)--and have fun with it.
 
I myself play some songs a little fast and loose with both lyrics and chords. I hear people talk about playing songs correctly but I don't know what correctly means. I guess correctly means reflecting back to it, what is printed on the page in front of you. I hear a lot of people who demonstrate their vast knowledge of music by pointing out that the Iz interpretation of Over the Rainbow is wrong. What does that mean? That he does not play it the same as someone else played it before him? How can a person's own interpretation of a song be wrong? I have several Bob Dylan albums and I listen to a lot of Bob Dylan music on the radio, and Bob himself never sings a song the same way twice. When Pete Seeger wrote "Where Have All the Flowers Gone, there was only three verses to it. A fellow named Joe Hickerson came along and changed Pete's last verse, then turned right around and added another. It is Joe's song that most of us recognize and sing, so I guess if we are truly purists we can say that Pete wrote his song wrong, because later Pete would sing Joe's rendition of the song. So who was correct, Pete or Joe? I mean, if we want to play the song correctly, don't we have to determine that? Anyway, I guess this turned into a bit of a rant. Sorry about that, but it is something that gets under my skin sometimes.

There is definitely more than one way to harmonise a song. Even the lyrics can be altered with the composer's permission. I admit to recording a Fred Eaglesmith song with an accidental change in the lyrics (I sang "blinds" instead of "curtains") that didn't change the meaning of the song at all, but when it was pointed out to me that I'd done this, I started performing the song with the correct lyrics.

I love singing and playing Hank Williams' Hey Good Lookin', but I sure don't use the same changes as Hank used.
Iz even changed the tune of Over The Rainbow, but his chords and the tune he sings sound so great that it doesn't matter. His changes to the lyrics were not improvements however. They make no sense.

If Joe Hickerson had changed the song without Pete's permission it would be one thing, but even Pete sang Joe's version after he heard it.

If the chords you use sound good to you, then there's nothing wrong with how you're playing it. There is more than one correct way of playing a song for sure and there are even more incorrect ways of playing it.
 
Well you can always cheat... it works for me. I primarily play melodies (fingerstyle) and quite often I will play them in the key of G... G, C, Am, D, Em, or C... C, F, G, Dm, Am, Em. To keep this simple, it doesn't really matter as long as it is a key that is easy to play.

Find a song and just transpose that tough chord to and easier chord and then transpose the rest of them. If you are singing, this may not work, but if you are playing a melody with chords there is a vast difference between playing that Eb or a G or a C. What you may not realize are the open chords you can play up the neck to add variety.

At my age, I don't really want to make things harder than they are and to be honest no one has noticed or mentioned the same key/chords playing a fingerstyle melody.

John

Edit: Not sure if this helps, but it is after midnight and I'm retired so I don't have to go to work on Monday and it gives me something to do.
 
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we either play and pass along what was given to us or we make adjustments, but those
are done because it seems better to us to do so. Ie, it sounds better to us.

I find myself substituting Dm7 for F many times, because I like the mellower, less harsh
sound of the m7 vs the Major chords... at times. Again, it's what sounds good to me in
that particular song... the way I remember hearing it, and the way I intend to present it.

That said, I'm sure I'm in the 'wrong' many times, esp to those who may not have heard
my rendition of the song. Also, my renditions tend to be based on only one artist's rendition,
say Dean Martin, or Bobby Darin, so that if you're more familiar with someone else's rendition,
my suggested chording may not fit the song the way you remember it and want to sing it.
So now, you're free to make the adjustments that sound good to you :)

I regularly 'interpret' a song while I'm playing it in a group by adding to or subtracting from the
chords we're all looking at on the page in front of us. Once I become familiar with the melody,
if I hear a different progression, one that sounds better to my ear, then I choose to add or subtract
the chords that will help me enjoy playing the song... my way. Am I right? most likely not, but
I'm happier when I create the sound I like, rather than simply following what's written. Not saying
what's written is 'wrong', only that I reserve the right to play a song the way it makes sense to me...
without totally disrupting/disturbing those around me at the time.

bottom line... do your adjustments sound good to you? then go for it... being open to suggestions from
others which might make sense to you in the long run :)

We're all in this together, and we can always learn more... to play better.

keep uke'in',
 
A few other thoughts on "strange looking" chords in a song

A song can have a temporary key change. In other words, a song in C can often have an Am chord (the relative minor). If a song was written in Am, E7 would be an important pivotal chord (the V7), so a song in C can go to E7 and then to Am for a measure or so and this would be considered a temporary key change. Another common device is parallel motion. In Hit the Road, Jack, the progression goes Am, G, F, E7 (I'm not sure if that's the actual key) but it's just moving down the scale. It can also be done by just going down a whole step (C to Bb) or up a whole step (C to D). In On Broadway, that catchy opening progression is going down a whole step and then back up. That's how you can have chords like Bb and D appear in a song in C.

As far as skipping chords or changing them, try it and see if it sounds good to you. If it does, then do it. That's called artistic license. I should point out that there are famous (and rich) artists and songwriters that know next to nothing about chord theory. They play around and find something they like and go with that. It's a perfectly legitimate way to write or arrange music.
 
Music theory can get EXTREMELY complicated, theoretical, mathematical, physical (physics), and even psychological. It would take way too long to FULLY explain why some songs modulate (change key), or use accidentals (notes that are not in the key). But a good foundation, a good reference point, is the "basic", "standard", "default", "natural", or "common" diatonic (meaning no sharps or flats) major scale. That is the basis for analyzing ALL other scales and their associated chords. So, start there. This is literally as simple as it gets, and I think I can explain it in a way that everyone can understand.

Step 1: The major scale.

This is the basic major scale we all know and love. It's all the white keys on the piano:

C D E F G A B C

That's one octave of the C major scale. No sharps. No flats. All the white keys on the piano, starting on C and ending on C. Instead of thinking of the major scale as specific notes, we can think of the major scale as numbers like this:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

That is one "octave" of the major scale. The word octave means "eight". The eighth note of the major scale is the same as the first note, but one octave higher. We call the numbers "degrees" of the scale. So for the C major scale the first degree, also known as the "root" or the "tonic" is C. Degree 1 = C. 2 = D. And, so on.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
C D E F G A B C


Here's the G major scale:

G A B C D E F# G

It has one sharp, but we can also just use the same numbers to talk about it as well.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
G A B C D E F#G


So, let's forget the note names for a while because they can make things confusing and let's just think about the numbers because every major scale uses the same numbers. The differences are really which notes get assigned to which numbers.

Step 2: Harmonizing the major scale

Here's the major scale again, but this time I've highlighted three of the numbers starting at one and skipping two and four. In other words, EVERY OTHER NUMBER starting at 1 and ending at 5.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

If you play all of those notes together, at the same time, you get a chord. Let's call it the "One" chord because it starts on the "One" note. In the key of C, that would be the C major chord. In the key of G, that would be the G major chord. In the key of F, that would be the F major chord. Get it?

Here's the same scale, but I've highlighted every other number starting at two and ending at 6.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Let's call that the "Two" chord since it starts on the second degree of the scale. In the key of C, that would be a D minor chord.

Hang in there! We're almost done.

Let's do that for all of the notes of the major scale starting with 1 and using Roman numerals for the names of the chords.

I - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

ii - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

iii - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

IV - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

V - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2

vi - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3

vii[SUP]o[/SUP] - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4

We use upper case for major chords and lower case for minor chords. We add a "degree" symbol for diminished chords. So every key has these as the primary chords, or "triads" because they have three notes. They are the One Major, Two Minor, Three Minor, Four Major, Five Major, Six Minor, and Seven Diminished.

I ii iii IV V vi vii[SUP]o[/SUP]

In the key of C, they are the following chords: C Dm Em F G Am Bdim. Let's lay them out for a couple more keys:

Code:
I ii iii IV V vi vii[SUP]o[/SUP]
C Dm Em  F  G Am Bdim
G Am Bm  C  D Em F#dim
F Gm Am  Bb C Dm Edim

You can do what I just did above with every key. Every key has three major chords, three minor chords, and one diminished chord that are made of just notes from that scale.

If you do the same thing that I did above, but select four notes instead of three like this:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

You get your 7th chords. In the key of C they are Cmaj7, Dm7, Em7, Fmaj7, G7, Am7, and Bdim7. You can do that for every key. We can talk about them with numbers too like this: I[SUP]7[/SUP], ii[SUP]7[/SUP], iii[SUP]7[/SUP], IV[SUP]7[/SUP], V7, vi[SUP]7[/SUP], vii[SUP]o7[/SUP].

Those also don't require accidentals.

So, that's the basic musical theoretical background. Now, let's talk about the musical journey.

Step 3: The basic journey

You can think about all songs as if you're taking a journey down a road starting from your home and coming back. Your home is the "tonic", or the "root", or the "One", or the "I" chord. The "basic" songs starts there and begins heading out. The ii chord is like sticking your head out of the door. The iii is like standing on your lawn. The IV is like you're on the road to town. The V is like you're in the town shopping. The V7 is like you're really wanting to rush home again. The V7 really wants to "resolve". It wants to finish the story. It wants to go back home. It wants to be followed by a I.

This is, of course, a VERY VERY simple example of how these chords tend to function in a song. Most songs don't use every chord. Many only use three - usually the I, IV, and V. A few only use two - usually the I and the V7. It's possible to write a song that only uses one - usually the I.

Note that this basic journey uses only chords in the key. In the key of C the journey would begin with C, then move through Dm, Em, F, G7, and go back home to C. None of those use accidentals, that is notes that are not in the key of C.

The entire "diatonic" journey, meaning no accidentals, takes place on the MAIN road. You don't take any "detours".

Now, let's consider a simple detour.

On your way to town, you decide to take a more scenic path. Instead of playing the ii chord which is normally a minor, you play the II chord which is a major chord. Instead of playing a Dm in the key of C, you play a D in the key of C. Simple. This brilliant little trick was used often by a little band from Liverpool called The Beatles. Playing the II major instead of the ii minor is probably the most common popular detour from the primary road. Another is using the III (major) instead of the iii (minor). In other words, in the key of C, that would be using the E instead of the Em. Note that using the II or the III instead of the ii or the iii requires you to play notes that are NOT in the key of the song, in other words - accidentals.

There are MANY, MANY other ways to deviate from the basic path but this is the simplest, easiest to understand, answer to the original question brought up by this thread. This is the easiest explanation to where notes that are not in the given key come from.
 
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Wow, what a great and clearly stated Theory post. Very easy to understand. I'm sure many ukers are gonna get a lot out of it.

Thanks, gvelasco, I'm gonna read again. :eek:ld:
 
Sevenths

Wow, what a great and clearly stated Theory post. Very easy to understand. I'm sure many ukers are gonna get a lot out of it.

Indeed that was - and I'm sure they will! If I may, I'm going to add just a couple of observations on 7th chords that touch on some of the issues raised by yourself (and others) in the thread.

Firstly, as gvelasco so rightly says, you only need three notes to form a chord (your basic triad). Once you go on beyond 3 notes, you enter the realm of extended chords (7ths first, but then, building on the 'every other number' principle, 9ths, 11ths & even 13ths also); but it's important to recognise that each successive combination of 3 notes in an extended chord forms a triad in its own right.

So when Uncle Rod talks about substituting a Dm7 for an F, effectively what he's doing is substituting a F/D (read as "F over D" - F with a D in the bass) for a straight F. Let me explain:
If we begin counting out every other number starting on the D note, we get D, F, A - a Dm chord.
If we continue to the 7th of the Dm chord, we get D, F, A, C.
Those last 3 notes, F, A, C, together make up an F chord in their own right (sitting on top of that D)...
...and that's also why Dm7th sounds so much 'sweeter' than a straight Dm chord (as generally do all minor 7ths compared to their non-extended, triad, versions).​

... and that's why Dm7 is so often such an effective substitution for F!

Now, let's take a look at G7 in the key of C.
It's formed from the notes of G, B, D & F; but B, D & F themselves comprise a chord in the key of C: the viiº chord - Bº (B-diminished). Diminished chords have a very unsettling quality to them. So if you think of G7 as being in effect Bº/G, you can understand why substituting a G7th chord for G in a chord progression gives that chord progression such a sense of urgency. The chord progression suddenly wants to go somewhere else - and that somewhere is C...
Code:
G
Well I might take a train
G
I might take a plane,
G
but if I have to walk
          G7
I'm gonna get there just the same
             C                               G  
I'm going to Kansas City, Kansas City here I come

Try playing those lines without ever going to the G7. It'll sound perfectly fine - but then add that G7 on the fourth line: now it'll sound like you mean it!

Let's look a bit more closely at that G7 there:
- G is the dominant note in the key of C, and the G chord is therefore also the dominant chord in the key of C.
- In the key of C, G is the 5th note to C's 1st (or tonic) note.
- In the key of C, G is the V chord to the C chord's I - and the V7 chord is the dominant 7th in that key.​
G7 is the dominant 7th chord in the key of C.

Of all the different types of 7th chords out there, dominant 7ths are by far the most commonly encountered. So commonly encountered are they that, except in expositions like this, we don't even bother specifying the 'dominant' tag - a straight '7th' is simply a dominant 7th. But if you're asking yourself 'why this chord and not that?', it's important to keep in mind that any straight 7th chord is the dominant 7th of a particular key.

So just as G7th derives from the key of C, C7 (C, E, G, B♭) itself derives from the key of F; D7 (D, F♯, A, C) from the key of G; F7 (F, A, C, E♭) from the key of B♭; etc., etc.

Introducing a C7 (from the key of F) into a song in the key of C will drive the chord progression in the direction of F. Introducing a G7 chord (from the key of C) into a song in the key of G will drive the chord progression in the direction of C, etc, etc.

Take the Kansas City example I used above, which I chorded in the key of G. In the 4th line (4th bar), we encounter a G7 chord that drives the tune onto the IV chord in G, i.e., the C. Normally, we would write the progression in the Kansas City example as follows:
I, I, I, I7
IV, IV, I, I
(with the final 4 bars in the classic 12-bar blues being something like)
V7, V7 I, I

That I7 in the 4th bar indeed drives the tune in the direction of the IV chord. But the reason it does, is because it's the V7th of the IV chord - G7 is the dominant 7th of C, the IV chord in the key of G.

To describe that G7 not as I7 but as V7/IV (read as "the V7th of the IVth (chord)") is to identify that G7 as a 'secondary dominant', and its role in the progression is to drive the chord progression on towards its (G7's) 'secondary tonic': in this case, the C.

So... To return at last to your original question (hurrah!), I'm suspecting that a lot of these 'odd' chords you're encountering are secondary dominants. Because it's not just the IV chord that has a secondary dominant, but every chord in the key from ii to vi.

So in the key of C, as gvelasco has kindly tabbed out for us, we have:
Code:
I ii iii IV V vi 
C Dm Em  F  G Am

Each of those chords from ii to vi has a secondary dominant of its own (the I chord, of course, has the 'primary' dominant!). In the key of C they are:
Code:
Chord notation:  ii iii IV V  vi 
      Key of C:  Dm Em  F  G  Am 
2ndary dom. 7th: A7 B7  C7 D7 E7

So, let's take a look at "All of Me" - I have the original sheet music for this, and this how my copy chords the first couple of lines:
Code:
|C             |                    |E7         |     |
|All of me_____|___,   why not take |all of me__|__   |
|A7            |                    |Dm         |     |
|Can't you see_|_, I'm no good with-|out you____|___  |
|E7            |                    |Am         |     |
|Take my lips__|____,     I want to |lose them__|___  |
|D7            |                    |G7         |     |
|Take my arms__|____,   I'll ne-ver |use__      |them |
|C             |                    |Am         |     |
|Your good-bye…

See how the A7, 2nd line, drives you toward the Dm? How the E7, 3rd line, drives you toward the Am? How the D7, 4th line, drives you into the G7 and the G7 finally back to the C? All these 7th chords at the start of each of these lines are the 2ndary dominants of the chords at the end.
The only chord that doesn't quite 'fit' is the E7 on the first line, but of that chord you could say, idk, it's leading you into the A7 that finally brings you home to Dm .

Hope that makes sense: "detours upon detours", to use gvelasco's happy analogy; so when I write 'brings you home to Dm', what I really mean of course is 'gets you to your Dm motel for the night, on your journey back to C'!
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One final point: uke0729's mention of "Hit The Road, Jack." The chord progression in that song is known as the Andalusian Cadence. Normally the chord progression in a major key from the 6th scale degree down to the 3rd would go vi - V - IV - iii, (e.g., Am, G, F, Em) but in the Andalusian cadence, it goes vi – V – IV – III (Am, G, F, E). There are various 'flavours' to minor keys, but in the simplest variety, natural minor, the Andalusian cadence is written as i – VII – VI – V (as i – ♭VII – VI – V with respect to a harmonic minor key).

Once you've run across it once, you'll run across it everywhere: Beach Boys 'Good Vibrations' (verse); David Bowie 'China Girl'; Del Shannon 'Runaway'; Dire Straits 'Sultans of Swing'; Hall & Oates 'Maneater'; Nina Simone 'Don't let me be misunderstood'; Richard Hell & The Voidoids 'Blank Generation'; The Stray Cats "Stray Cat Strut" (two versions: one for the verse and another for the chorus!); The Turtles "Happy Together" (verse); Zager & Evans "In the year 2525"; The Ventures "Walk, Don't Run"; Bob Dylan "One more cup of coffee for the Road" - and of course "Hit the road, Jack" - the list goes on and on!!
 
When I played all my instruments before the uke, I just pressed the keys or valves or covered the holes or breathed in and out. I was quite happy (and much younger) with all that. I even whistled a lot. But then I decided that I wanted to sing again and accompany myself as I did.

So I bought a soprano (2 strings less than a guitar) and, later, a concert, and music became less and less easy and fun -- like whistling. I would have been okay with the two that I bought, but I wanted to improve -- alas . . . It was then that the problem of many many chords to learn and REMEMBER arose.

So now I'm backing away from chords and playing finger style with minimal chords and singing with the chords that I know already. My venture into chords is over; I don't do well with frustration.

I do play Irish banjo and mandolin music, but I haven't run into any chords yet -- all flatpicking single notes. I also play Clawhammer banjo folk music, but chord usage is simple and minimal.

More power to those of you who (Yoo Hoo?) plan to go on learning and learning and learning more and more chord stuff. I hope you do well and become what you wanna be.

And that's how I solved my Banjo Music Theory problems. Thanks to all for your proffered help. :eek:ld:
 
I don't know diddly about "music theory". I learned to play guitar 50+ years ago with a chord chart, and learned to sing songs and play the chords by ear.

There are certain chords that belong in certain keys...then , there are what I call transitional chords that happen in some ( ex> sharps or flats, sevenths, minors, etc.).

If there is a song that I know the words and medly; I sometimes use e-chords.com. There are thousands of songs in their library. If you are a paying member, you can move the keys up, or down. They also have uke versions of most of the songs. If you're just a "free" member, you are stuck with whatever key the member used, and they sometimes make mistakes. But, I can usually detect them and change. I'm well versed enough to make most of the key changes without any help, due to my extensive guitar work.

Hope this helps.
 
www.lakesidepress.com said:
Still…for the non-musician, the more you understand how the uke works, the better player you are likely to become. This idea is stated clearly by professional player Brett McQueen, creator of one of the top uke web sites, ukuleletricks.com:

Why You Should Know This Stuff
Brett McQueen​

I’ve said it before. You can get by without knowing a whole lot of theory, but theory helps you to articulate in your mind what you’re actually playing. It’s a language that allows you as a musician and artist to communicate the things you want to communicate.

http://www.lakesidepress.com/UkeSyllabus.pdf

#justsaying
 
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