Making Sense of Chords - Blah!

I've always played one-note-at-a-time instruments before taking up the ukulele. I did start to learn the keyboard, but I found that I couldn't play chords and melody with both hands at the same time.

So now, I can play all the first position chords that I need, but I am confused about music with more than 5 or 6 different chords. I've always believed that a tune's chords came from it's key, but of course that isn't so. I have tunes in the key of C with F# chords and Bb chords, etc. Also, sometimes there's minor chords in major pieces. So where do the accidentals come from?

Most folk tunes just have chords from their key, and I can handle them. But I'd like to move on a bit. However, I'd like to understand what I'm dealing with to help me learn what I'm doing.

So what I wanna know is how does one decide what chords to use in a tune and can a player (me) just ignore the ones he doesn't want to bother with?

I've searched different theory sources, but I still don't understand the above. ld:

I'm in exactly the same boat, DUD. I'm way too old to go back to square one and learn the subtle nuances of formal music. Over the last 5 yrs I have progressed to where I'm comfortable with Jim Beloff's Daily Uke and enjoy playing and singing the stuff I can remember how the melody goes. I just skip the rarely used chords and I think it's better than a hiccup in the song and a terrible chord. My current ambition is to put together a few simple chord melody songs and work on my finger picking. I'll just keep it simple and continue to love the music that I'm producing with my several " jumping fleas " and that's really what it's all about. I'm sure I'll pick up some good info from other answers to your questions.

I know very little theory, but it's not uncommon to have minor chords in a major key song, e.g., Am is the relative minor in the Key of C, Em in G and so on. As for the "accidentals" , I guess that's just what the composer put in because it felt right. If you want to ignore any particular chords, well why not. Whether leaving out any chords will mean the tune you're playing sounds like it is lacking something is another question entirely. Only your ears, or the ears of your audience can help you on that front

The basic chords in a key are those that come from the key. They are the I, IV, and V major; the ii, iii, and vi minor; and the vii diminished 7th. In the key of C, that's C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, and B dim7. Except for the diminished 7th, all of the notes in those chords are in the key of C. The V chord is often replaced with the V7 (e.g., G7 instead of G major). 7 chords also get used in passing to lead into other chords, e.g., C7 provides a transition between C and F. As One Man wrote, the composer can put in others because it feels right.

Down Up Dick said:

. . . I have tunes in the key of C with F# chords and Bb chords, etc. . . .

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Can you give us a few examples of the songs with the confusing chords?

Gary52 said:

The basic chords in a key are those that come from the key. They are the I, IV, and V major; the ii, iii, and iv minor; and the vii diminished 7th. In the key of C, that's C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, and B dim7. Except for the diminished 7th, all of the notes in those chords are in the key of C. The V chord is often replaced with the V7 (e.g., G7 instead of G major). 7 chords also get used in passing to lead into other chords, e.g., C7 provides a transition between C and F. As One Man wrote, the composer can put in others because it feels right.

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So one can just stick a chord or two onto any measure that it fits? So, in a C tune, any measure that has a Bb or a D could have a Bb or a D chord added to it? Well, I guess I can understand that.

Thanks, Gary52, I'll have to study my theory books and music some more. I appreciate your help. ld:

DaveY said:

Can you give us a few examples of the songs with the confusing chords?

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Not off hand, but I can maybe find some. However, I've got 15 more minutes to play in my Irish banjo session. ld:

Most tunes are in one particular key, however to get a change of pace/tone, it is acceptable to change key in a song when the notes belong to two different keys, which allows a transition which is smooth, nearly always the same thing happens to bring the song/tune back to it's original key before ending.
(It took a lot of reading to find that out, but it makes sense to me now. )

uke1950 said:

Most tunes are in one particular key, however to get a change of pace/tone, it is acceptable to change key in a song when the notes belong to two different keys, which allows a transition which is smooth, nearly always the same thing happens to bring the song/tune back to it's original key before ending.
(It took a lot of reading to find that out, but it makes sense to me now. )

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Thanks, but that's not what I meant. I understand changing keys in a piece.

I'm talking about when a measure has just one or two chords in it that don't fit into the key of the tune. Is there some rule to put them there or can one just throw in (or take out) a chord where ever he sees fit?

Well, I see I've maybe gotten myself into another snarl. I just like to understand what I'm doing--Ahhh, well . . . ld:

DaveY said:

Can you give us a few examples of the songs with the confusing chords?

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No, DaveY, I'm not much of a computer person. I dunno how to show you an example.

The chords aren't confusing. I just wanna know why they don't seem to fit in the key of the piece. But I think maybe I do now. ld:

Hi DUD,

As I understand it there are some basic rules regarding chord substitution. As has already been mentioned you can swap a minor chord for its relative major. You can also do the opposite, although you have to be a little more careful (IV to IVm is most common I believe). Also, there is something called tritone substitution, which I'm not even going to attempt to explain - see here.

The only rule in music is to play what sounds good. And "good" is subjective. Therefore, the short answer is that composers are free to use whatever chords they like, whether or not the notes "belong" in that key.

By the same token, musicians can arrange and adapt the music however they like, meaning if you don't like a chord you can skip it. It won't sound exactly how the composer intended, but that is not a requirement. Unless the composer is listening. Maybe not then, either. How fast can you run and how fast is the composer?

This is why I like to play songs that were composed by people who are already dead. That way, nobody can blame me.

For a longer answer, Google "chord substitutions" and you'll find some rules of thumb that explain some, but by no means all, of the chords that seem to show up where they don't belong. Plus, as uke1950 says, songs can change key in the middle. Also, songs are not necessarily based on a major scale (could be natural minor, could be harmonic minor, could be dorian or mixolydian or...) so the accidentals aren't always where you expect them to be.

Last week we were arranging "When That I Was and a Little Tiny Boy" for Shakespeare's birthday. The chords Am, Dm and E7 seemed to work fine. But I've been working on some tunes in Dorian mode (I am a mountain dulcimer player, do not try this at home) and so I tried a standard Dorian progression Am, G and Em. Which also worked nicely. How on earth Am-Dm-E7 and Am-G-Em can be interchangeable is beyond me but I am sure music theory can explain it somehow.

Somewhat less esoteric: In the key of C, if you build a D chord using the notes of the scale, that chord is minor. Yet if you play "You Can't Always Get What You Want" in C, the chords are C, F and D (not Dm). I do not know why.

Down Up Dick said:

Thanks, but that's not what I meant. I understand changing keys in a piece.

I'm talking about when a measure has just one or two chords in it that don't fit into the key of the tune. Is there some rule to put them there or can one just throw in (or take out) a chord where ever he sees fit?

Well, I see I've maybe gotten myself into another snarl. I just like to understand what I'm doing--Ahhh, well . . . ld:

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I struggled with the same thing Dick. I just wanted a formula that would make sense of it all. After hours and hours of studying the rules and every possible explanation for why there are exceptions to the rules, and after spending days digesting PMs from Ubulele on the subject, in the end, there are no rules that you can always count on. There are just too many rule breakers out there writing songs.

Here are two articles by Jim D'Ville on the emotional value of chords:
http://www.ukulelemag.com/stories/news/the-emotional-value-of-chords
http://www.ukulelemag.com/stories/news/learn-how-minor-chords-can-unlock-the-dismal-cheery-heartbreaking-and-dramatic-sides-of-a-song

If you want to get deeper into the weeds, this article about the Beatles' "Here, There and Everywhere" describes the use of unusual chords to convey feeling:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here%2C_There_and_Everywhere

Down Up Dick said:

No, DaveY, I'm not much of a computer person. I dunno how to show you an example.

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Even the titles should be enough, unless they're obscure songs. If you want to. I'm fine.

DaveY said:

Even the titles should be enough, unless they're obscure songs. If you want to. I'm fine.

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Hi again. I wasn't trying to keep anything from you. I was looking through a music book earlier for something to play, and some of the tunes had all kinds of chords which were alien to the key. So, I started wondering why they were there. Chords aren't my friends so I wondered if I couldn't just omit them, but I thought there might be a rule or somethin' that would ruin the song.

So I guess my query is answered. It's just a good, easy thing that I mostly play and sing folk or Gospel. ld:

Down Up Dick said:

Chords aren't my friends

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But if you make friends with each note in a chord, eventually the entire chord will be your friend.

I'm joking. I'm glad that your query was answered.

Some tunes are composed in different modes and will seem to have chords from different keys. Explaining modes would take me too long and if you really want to learn about this, you should find someone more knowledgeable to explain it. A tune like Old Joe Clark, usually played in A, contains a G chord, not usually found in A tunes.
Some tunes have "passing chords", or chords that lead from one chord to another; for instance if you are playing a C chord followed by an A chord, you might play B and Bb chords between the two, kind of running down chromatically.
In the old Robert Johnson song They're Red Hot, for the lines: Hot tamales and they're red hot. Yes she's got 'em for sale., you might play: C C B Bb, A A A A, D7 D7 G7 G7, C C D7 D7. . .
Some songs, especially jazzy ones, may have a bunch of chord substitutions that may or may not add to the song. There is more than one way to harmonise a melody. Here's a simple 3 chord song. When James Taylor recorded it, he added some chord substitutions.

(C) She'll be comin' 'round the mountain when she comes. . .

JT version (sorta)
She'll be (C) comin' (Dm) 'round the (Em) mountain (Am) when she (C) comes (Am) (Dm) (G7). . .

Although it sounded OK when JT sang it, to my ear, most of the time simple folkier tunes sound better with a simple accompaniment without a lot of chord substitutions.

Many pop songs from before the war were written with a lot of chords and don't sound right without them. The old song Home, goes right to a chord we weren't expecting.

(C) When shadows (B) fall and (Dm) trees (D#m) whisper day is (Em) en(G7)ding
(Dm) My (D#m) thoughts are ever (Em) wen(G7)ding (C) Home. (A7) (Dm) (G7)

In this song, the D#m is a passing chord and could be left out. The Em is a substitution and could also be left out. The C, A7, Dm, G7 turnaround could be simplified and you'd end up with:

(C) When shadows (B) fall and (Dm) trees whisper day is (G7) ending
(Dm) My thoughts are ever (G7) wending (C) Home. (G7)

On the ukulele, since we only have four strings, Am7 or Am6 or Am7b5 can usually be played as Am.

Chords can be really complicated and hard to explain in a single post. This one may well come across as gobbledygook. If so, please ignore it.

Hey Brother DUD, good thread and I have learned something, although my head was close to exploding sometimes. I have come to the conclusion in the past that some things just sound good even if it doesn't make sense to "me". Yes I will omit chords or look for a substitue if I don't like the sound of that part of the arrangement. When playing just for myself it really doesn't matter if it is correct.....as long as I like how it sounds.

DownUpDave said:

Hey Brother DUD, good thread and I have learned something, although my head was close to exploding sometimes. I have come to the conclusion in the past that some things just sound good even if it doesn't make sense to "me". Yes I will omit chords or look for a substitue if I don't like the sound of that part of the arrangement. When playing just for myself it really doesn't matter if it is correct.....as long as I like how it sounds.

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Ya know, Bro, sometimes a certain chord I'm supposed to play just sounds ugly to me. I always blame myself for being so clumsy and play it over and over--still ugly. So I just sing louder when I get to that part.

Chords give me the yips. It's pretty sad when one plays something correctly, and it still sounds bad. Ahhh, well . . . ld: