Pickup problem

bunnyf

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Didn't know whether to post here or in luthier's lounge, but I'm having an issue with a pickup. I just had a MiSi trio put in my LoPr soprano. I have had the same pickup in other ukes and have actually self installed one with no issues. Plugged this one in when I came home from the guitar shop and it is so quiet with my amp that I can barely discern that it's actually working. If I adjust the volume up and down on the amp, it makes very little difference. I plugged in one of my other instruments (that also has a MiSi btw) and it works just fine. Went back to the shop and the installer said "yeah, it is kinda quiet, but it's nothing I did. Maybe it's a problem with the pickup". He plugged it into a huge amp and it sounded louder than my Roland street cube, but it was still quiet. The installer wasn't interested in investigating the issue any further. I'm wondering what the problem might be and if I should have someone else look at it. What do you guys think?
 
Possibly a combination of two things, sopranos have less tension and thus the saddle isn't putting as much tension on the pick-up wire, secondly the bridge slot on a soprano is sometimes more narrow than with larger ukuleles and the wire doesn't always lay flat like it should unless it is modified.
 
Possibly a combination of two things, sopranos have less tension and thus the saddle isn't putting as much tension on the pick-up wire, secondly the bridge slot on a soprano is sometimes more narrow than with larger ukuleles and the wire doesn't always lay flat like it should unless it is modified.
Interesting, I'm sure he did not do anything to modify the bridge at all, other than obviously drilling a hole for the pickup wire. In fact he said "All I did was drill a hole for the jack, so if it's not working right, it's a problem with the pickup." I didn't measure beforehand, but the action seems higher. I saw in the HMS video that they rout the channel before placing the wire. When I did the install myself on one of my baris, I sanded the saddle instead (easier for me) and all was good. I could do that but I couldn't screw around with the channel on the bridge if it's too narrow for the wire. That would be beyond me I think. Not sure where to go from here. Btw, this was the luthier's first MiSi install, but I'm sure he's done many reg. guitar pickups (he's an older gentleman). I'm not currently staying in an area where there are other choices for luthiers but this fellow definitely was uninterested in problem solving the issue.
 
I plugged in one of my other instruments (that also has a MiSi btw) and it works just fine.
Stupid question but were you using the same cable with the uke that worked fine and the one that didn't work fine?
Stupid question #2: the misi has to be charged right? Was it?
 
Stupid question but were you using the same cable with the uke that worked fine and the one that didn't work fine?
Stupid question #2: the misi has to be charged right? Was it?

Yep, same amp and cable. Went back and forth a few times. Worked loud and clear with my Bari, and practically nothing with the soprano. I also thought, since it's new it might need a longer charge, but that didn't help either. I think Hoosierhiver is on the right track, maybe something about the placement of the pickup wire. I don't know about low string tension being the primary part of the problem, but it makes sense that it could be a contributing factor. I would think though that other folks with sopranos would report pickup issues then, and I haven't heard that. I could tune up or move to higher tension strings but I don't really want to. I would think the pickup would be sensitive enough to pickup even the more minimal vibration of the soprano, otherwise folks wouldn't use them. I have to think something about the install is the issue. Of course there is always the possibility that the actual pickup as some mechanical problem but I think that's less likely, so I'm trying to figure where else the problem might lie.
 
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Have you given the MiSi pickup a full charge?

MiSi themselves have recommended that the first 2-3 charges actually be longer than the 60-seconds, more like 120 seconds.

IMHE, the MiSi output is either low volume or distorted when the internal supercapacitor is depleted or running out of energy.

Maybe charge it up for 2 mins and try again, also as was said by others try a different, maybe brand-new cable as well.

If it's never been charged up since in your hands after the install by the tech, it would be folly to assume 'it will just work' by magic, since electricity does not ingress via osmosis from the air into one of these things. :)
 
Joe King, I charged it up a couple times, for a few minutes w/o any improvement. My other uke, a Bari, with same pickup, same amp, same cable, plays loud and clear.
I'm gonna leave it in again for several minutes and see if it helps. I'll repost w/ results.
 
Only one hole for the jack? Don't you need a hole in the bridge slot for the Misi?

I'd pull the saddle and check if the Misi is installed correctly and if the saddle is seated all the way into the bridge slot and firmly contacting the Misi.
 
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While he said he only drilled one hole for the jack, he had to have drilled through the bridge too for the pickup wire. I did mention to him that HMS has a great video on MiSi install but I'm doubting he watched it. I would think he would know to angle the hole through the bridge, cuz that technique would apply to guitar pickups too and by his age, I'm sure he's done many of those. Im guessing I'll have to take off the strings, remove the saddle and then I can see how the pickup wire is sitting. I could probably only tell whether the hole in the bridge is angled properly by removing the pickup wire and checking the angle myself. Oh well...project for another day.
 
Looks like I'm gonna have to take off the strings and look at it. I'll post pics. Gonna have to do something, right now the pickup seems worthless.
 
Well, I took off the strings and saddle to take a look at the pickup wire. It looks fine to me. Here's some pics. image.jpg image.jpg It seems to be sitting nicely in the channel and the hole through the bridge seems to be large enough that it's not pinching the wire and is not at a sharp angle. Guess I'm gonna just take down the saddle a bit to lower the action and maybe I'll try strings with a little more tension and see if that helps. Any suggestions?
 
I can't tell from the photo but the saddle MUST make firm, complete, intimate contact with the UST and the bottom of the slot in the saddle must be perfectly flat to assure firm complete contact. Look at your saddle from the side, i.e. at the narrow edge of it. Is it a 90 degree angle, so it doesn't just touch the UST with one edge? Take the UST out of the bridge slot and see it the slot is smooth and flat on the bottom. BTW, sanding material off the saddle will indeed lower your action but it will also decrease tension of the saddle against the UST! I've never installed Misi but I believe the UST is similar to Baggs which I have done several. The tip of the UST without the connecting wire on it, is not as sensitive as the rest of the UST strip either. So there MUST be a second hole in the saddle for the tip to extend into to allow the UST strip to be centered in the saddle. If all these details check out, there may be an issue with the pickup.
 
Well, I took off the strings and saddle to take a look at the pickup wire. It looks fine to me. Here's some pics. View attachment 100221 View attachment 100222 It seems to be sitting nicely in the channel and the hole through the bridge seems to be large enough that it's not pinching the wire and is not at a sharp angle. Guess I'm gonna just take down the saddle a bit to lower the action and maybe I'll try strings with a little more tension and see if that helps. Any suggestions?

I think that is a good plan of attack. A DI box would help boost the signal.
 
I can't tell from the photo but the saddle MUST make firm, complete, intimate contact with the UST and the bottom of the slot in the saddle must be perfectly flat to assure firm complete contact. Look at your saddle from the side, i.e. at the narrow edge of it. Is it a 90 degree angle, so it doesn't just touch the UST with one edge? Take the UST out of the bridge slot and see it the slot is smooth and flat on the bottom. BTW, sanding material off the saddle will indeed lower your action but it will also decrease tension of the saddle against the UST! I've never installed Misi but I believe the UST is similar to Baggs which I have done several. The tip of the UST without the connecting wire on it, is not as sensitive as the rest of the UST strip either. So there MUST be a second hole in the saddle for the tip to extend into to allow the UST strip to be centered in the saddle. If all these details check out, there may be an issue with the pickup.
Phil, the saddle channel was nice and smooth as was the bone saddle. I did lower the action closer back to where it was. There was no second hole in the bridge. If I'm understanding you correctly, your suggesting that there be a hole at each end of the bridge, one for the wire to fish up through from inside and the other to tuck the terminal end of the wire back down into the body?? I've never seen this. How far in does the end extend in? Or am I confused?
Hoosierhiver, I'm thinking too that I might need a DI box. I've restrung uke and it is somewhat louder but doesn't meet my expectation.
 
(When I took my piezo out of my Kala it had about a quarter of an inch tucked into the second hole.)

Funny, I've had a few installed and none have had that. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but when I watched HMS pickup install vid I don't think I saw a second hole being drilled. I wonder if it's a common practice.
 
Phil, the saddle channel was nice and smooth as was the bone saddle. I did lower the action closer back to where it was. There was no second hole in the bridge. If I'm understanding you correctly, your suggesting that there be a hole at each end of the bridge, one for the wire to fish up through from inside and the other to tuck the terminal end of the wire back down into the body?? I've never seen this. How far in does the end extend in? Or am I confused?
Hoosierhiver, I'm thinking too that I might need a DI box. I've restrung uke and it is somewhat louder but doesn't meet my expectation.
Yes, exactly. The tip of the UST braid should be tucked into the second hole at the opposite end of the bridge. I believe the Baggs pickup directions say this explicitly because as I stated previously the tip is not as sensitive as the rest. The UST braid should be essentially centered across the width of the bridge. Also as Kekani has said, even if the bottom of the saddle is true and flat as well as the slot in the bridge, if indeed the slot is too shallow to keep the saddle vertical, then you will still get only one edge of the saddle contacting the UST braid. This will certainly result in reduced volume. With the saddle back in the bridge and the strings tensioned, is the saddle vertical or is it leaning toward the nut?
 
BigPhil and Kekani, thank you for your input. I'm in a remote spot right now, so I'm on my own trying to correct this. Looking at the saddle after the pu install, it was tipped toward the nut and raised up out of the bridge channel more (by the thickness of the pu wire). I didn't want to mess with the depth of the channel, so I sanded down the saddle a bit. Now, proportionally, less is sticking up, so it looks less tipped and the action is better. I'm gonna pull off the strings again, make that second hole and tuck the wire in. While I have them off, I'm gonna take a little more off the saddle and see where that gets me. Thanks guys for all your insights.
 
If you have more to take off the saddle, try to angle the bottom surface so that when sitting at the angle forced by the string tension, the bottom is parallel to the bottom of the bridge slot. That should get better contact between saddle, UST, and bridge.
 
I had the very same problem with a LR Baggs 5.0 being very quiet and uneven volume from the individual strings. I took it to someone who knew what they were doing and he immediately identified the problems as only one hole through the bridge. He drilled a second hole, made sure everything else was fine, tweaked the saddle. That uke is now a canon plugged in and amplified.
 
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