What tuner do you use?
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Ukecaster
Well-known member
When, in a pinch, with no tuners or reference points, I'll use a landline telephone dialtone, which is the F note. I'll just fret the E string at the 1st fret, matching the dialtone, then tune the other strings by ear, relative to the E.
Rllink
Well-known member
I've yet to see anyone comment on phone apps. In a pinch I go to the phone in my pocket that has a tuning app. It works pretty well, unless there is a lot of background noise, then it picks up the background noise.
Ukecaster
Well-known member
+1 on that. I have Guitar Tuna on my phone, you can set for uke, as well as guitar.
I dont use a tuner. I use a pitch pipe,
or I tune the A string to A4 on my
digital piano and then I tune the rest
of the strings relative to that.
There is a reason that orchestra uses
A-440 for concert pitch standard,
so that is what I do.
or I tune the A string to A4 on my
digital piano and then I tune the rest
of the strings relative to that.
There is a reason that orchestra uses
A-440 for concert pitch standard,
so that is what I do.
I mostly play 8-string ukes, tenor & baritone. 1 & 2 are unison. 3&4 are octave. Tuning is much more critical than with a 4 string uke, especially the 3rd string octave pair. Even a fraction off from each other & they sound horribly cacophonous.
A while ago I discovered something odd -- but it's probably old news to those who play better than I do -- i.e., 99.9999% of ukers. To illustrate, I tuned an open A string so that it was dead center on a CliQ tuner. But it was a trifle flat on 5th & 12th frets, so I slowly got it into the green zone on 5th & 12th. I then supposed the open A might be a tad sharp, but it was still dead center. Go figure.
Because of that discovery, I switched to a Crescendo ZenStrobe clip-on tuner in an on-going search for *perfect* tuning all the way up the fretboard. When I told about that search to my music teacher, she said my search is futile because the fret spacing on guitars & ukes is set up for "equal temperament" (huh?). Therefore, EVERY key is very slightly out of tune, no matter how accurate your tuner.
I have little or no idea what she was talking about. Maybe Booli will translate?
A while ago I discovered something odd -- but it's probably old news to those who play better than I do -- i.e., 99.9999% of ukers. To illustrate, I tuned an open A string so that it was dead center on a CliQ tuner. But it was a trifle flat on 5th & 12th frets, so I slowly got it into the green zone on 5th & 12th. I then supposed the open A might be a tad sharp, but it was still dead center. Go figure.
Because of that discovery, I switched to a Crescendo ZenStrobe clip-on tuner in an on-going search for *perfect* tuning all the way up the fretboard. When I told about that search to my music teacher, she said my search is futile because the fret spacing on guitars & ukes is set up for "equal temperament" (huh?). Therefore, EVERY key is very slightly out of tune, no matter how accurate your tuner.
I have little or no idea what she was talking about. Maybe Booli will translate?
D
Dean Beaver
Guest
Bellgamin,
basically explaining,
the frets are set at a specific ratio, the ratio is determined specifically to work in the Chromatic Scale, so no matter whether it refers to a Guitar, Uke, Mandolin etc, as long as the instrument is set to operate on Chromatic Scale it will be set to this ratio, it's why people playing Guitars, Ukes, Mandolins etc can all play together in a band or recording etc. It's why an experienced and knowledgeable person can play Guitar and then translate the same method to Ukulele simply by figuring out where the Root Note is.
With Music, It's all relative.
It's why a qualified music teacher can teach music to a class of various instrumentalists at the same time without altering theory for any of them, and likewise why a highly experienced instrumentalist is able to understand and play so many instruments, and it's why music works harmoniously even in a symphony orchestra with so many different instruments being played in sync.
If the ratios were different in each instrument it would not work in the relative relationship, and people playing Guitars, Ukuleles, Mandolins and even Pianos and Keyboards and more would not be able to play together, harmoniously, in a group or ensemble.
For example, working on the Chromatic Scale formula ,..
take any scale from Nut (O Fret) to Saddle, divide by 17.835 and you acquire the distance to Fret 1.
Then, take the measurement from Fret 1 to Saddle, divide by 17.835 and you acquire the distance to Fret 2.
Then, take the measurement from Fret 2 to Saddle, divide by 17.835, and you acquire the distance to Fret 3.
So on and So on up the fretboard to the end, and the 12th Fret should be mid-point between Nut (0 Fret) and Saddle.
So the "Equal Temperament" most likely refers to this specific ratio, You should be able to clearly observe the pattern by now.
The actual measurement from Nut to Fret 1, on a total 38cm scale, for example, actually calculates to 2.130642 cm or 21.30642 mm , so you can likley imagine how difficult it is to get each and every fret on a fretboard to such an exact measurement. I don't know if you can imagine what .30642 mm is like or how difficult it would be to fix a single fret in such an exact position, let alone 18 Frets being placed exactly, the last fraction of the measurement is probably like a hair on a baby flea. Putting it another way, could you or anyone else you know determine the difference if it was supposed to be set at 21.30642 mm but was actually set at 21.30645 mm , I know I wouldn't, though a precision technological device possibly might depending exactly how precise that device is. Does 0.00003 mm difference even matter soundwise ? Not to my human ears, at least not that I could tell.
I think most of the time these actual placements would likely be physically inexact on a finished fretboard, though a good experienced luthier, or instrument builder, will obviously get them close enough for the difference to not be significant. I'm quite sure even if using a technologically advanced precision laser to measure, each fret would still be required to be positioned and set by hand.
The only time I've personally known this to not occur was with a person I knew who Re-Fretted his own Classical Guitar to measure some odd or ancient scale that was not Chromatic but rather a specific scale for his desired purpose, it's some scale that's used in old gypsy type music or something like that . The Frets were all over the show up the fretboard, but he'd done it very efficiently nonetheless despite the odd appearance. He is one of those extremely clued on people with Guitars. You would probably see similar odd scales on other instruments such as a Sitar or similar, which are specifically calculated to a particular scale, for example.
Now, I'm not the music teacher who originally made such comment, so I can only suppose this is what she is referring to in this regard. I can't think of much else that would relate to equal temperament in relationship with tuning.
Happy Ukeing
basically explaining,
the frets are set at a specific ratio, the ratio is determined specifically to work in the Chromatic Scale, so no matter whether it refers to a Guitar, Uke, Mandolin etc, as long as the instrument is set to operate on Chromatic Scale it will be set to this ratio, it's why people playing Guitars, Ukes, Mandolins etc can all play together in a band or recording etc. It's why an experienced and knowledgeable person can play Guitar and then translate the same method to Ukulele simply by figuring out where the Root Note is.
With Music, It's all relative.
It's why a qualified music teacher can teach music to a class of various instrumentalists at the same time without altering theory for any of them, and likewise why a highly experienced instrumentalist is able to understand and play so many instruments, and it's why music works harmoniously even in a symphony orchestra with so many different instruments being played in sync.
If the ratios were different in each instrument it would not work in the relative relationship, and people playing Guitars, Ukuleles, Mandolins and even Pianos and Keyboards and more would not be able to play together, harmoniously, in a group or ensemble.
For example, working on the Chromatic Scale formula ,..
take any scale from Nut (O Fret) to Saddle, divide by 17.835 and you acquire the distance to Fret 1.
Then, take the measurement from Fret 1 to Saddle, divide by 17.835 and you acquire the distance to Fret 2.
Then, take the measurement from Fret 2 to Saddle, divide by 17.835, and you acquire the distance to Fret 3.
So on and So on up the fretboard to the end, and the 12th Fret should be mid-point between Nut (0 Fret) and Saddle.
So the "Equal Temperament" most likely refers to this specific ratio, You should be able to clearly observe the pattern by now.
The actual measurement from Nut to Fret 1, on a total 38cm scale, for example, actually calculates to 2.130642 cm or 21.30642 mm , so you can likley imagine how difficult it is to get each and every fret on a fretboard to such an exact measurement. I don't know if you can imagine what .30642 mm is like or how difficult it would be to fix a single fret in such an exact position, let alone 18 Frets being placed exactly, the last fraction of the measurement is probably like a hair on a baby flea. Putting it another way, could you or anyone else you know determine the difference if it was supposed to be set at 21.30642 mm but was actually set at 21.30645 mm , I know I wouldn't, though a precision technological device possibly might depending exactly how precise that device is. Does 0.00003 mm difference even matter soundwise ? Not to my human ears, at least not that I could tell.
I think most of the time these actual placements would likely be physically inexact on a finished fretboard, though a good experienced luthier, or instrument builder, will obviously get them close enough for the difference to not be significant. I'm quite sure even if using a technologically advanced precision laser to measure, each fret would still be required to be positioned and set by hand.
The only time I've personally known this to not occur was with a person I knew who Re-Fretted his own Classical Guitar to measure some odd or ancient scale that was not Chromatic but rather a specific scale for his desired purpose, it's some scale that's used in old gypsy type music or something like that . The Frets were all over the show up the fretboard, but he'd done it very efficiently nonetheless despite the odd appearance. He is one of those extremely clued on people with Guitars. You would probably see similar odd scales on other instruments such as a Sitar or similar, which are specifically calculated to a particular scale, for example.
Now, I'm not the music teacher who originally made such comment, so I can only suppose this is what she is referring to in this regard. I can't think of much else that would relate to equal temperament in relationship with tuning.
Happy Ukeing
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D
Dean Beaver
Guest
Nice straightforward explanation there Bill1 ...
So, I guess conclusively, it's important to have at least Good Intonation on your set instrument, which will likely be most noticeable in the presence of other instruments/vocals if there is significant difference in standard, or even if the instrument is played solitary it will likely be unpleasant to the ears.
Also, that Tuners can vary, and having a decent tuner is beneficial to read and display the correct frequency accurately.
I'm just guessing, but let me know if I'm on the right track ...
So, I guess conclusively, it's important to have at least Good Intonation on your set instrument, which will likely be most noticeable in the presence of other instruments/vocals if there is significant difference in standard, or even if the instrument is played solitary it will likely be unpleasant to the ears.
Also, that Tuners can vary, and having a decent tuner is beneficial to read and display the correct frequency accurately.
I'm just guessing, but let me know if I'm on the right track ...
Good explanations there from Dean and Bill...
What I have come to understand, is that parallel frets are a compromise based upon all of the science mentioned above, and that if you want to get closer to perfect intonation, due to relative differing string materials (esp wound vs. non-wound), diameters and tensions, non-parallel frets or 'fanned frets' will improved the whole situation...
and this opens a Pandora's Box regarding 'multi-scale' fretboards, which I am not well-versed enough to explain simply.
One takeaway is that the design/engineering of fanned frets differs a bit from it's application on steel vs. nylon strings.
some links to help explain:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-scale_fingerboard
http://theartoflutherie.com/fanned-fret-guitars/
What I have come to understand, is that parallel frets are a compromise based upon all of the science mentioned above, and that if you want to get closer to perfect intonation, due to relative differing string materials (esp wound vs. non-wound), diameters and tensions, non-parallel frets or 'fanned frets' will improved the whole situation...
and this opens a Pandora's Box regarding 'multi-scale' fretboards, which I am not well-versed enough to explain simply.
One takeaway is that the design/engineering of fanned frets differs a bit from it's application on steel vs. nylon strings.
some links to help explain:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-scale_fingerboard
http://theartoflutherie.com/fanned-fret-guitars/
@ Dean, Bill, Booli -- 10Q!!! I am getting a most enjoyable education. I just hope my 86-year-old brain can process.
Question to those who suggested concert strings for low tension -- I'm curious as to why concert strings are low tension if put on a tenor? It is a puzzlement.
Question to those who suggested concert strings for low tension -- I'm curious as to why concert strings are low tension if put on a tenor? It is a puzzlement.
Olarte
Well-known member
I like the Dario mini tuner and the iPhone ukulele toolkit.
But after a lifetime of music I rune the first string then the rest to it by ear then play a few chords
I Developed this technique because I was running a volunteer group I call "Peace love and ukulele - Healing Through Music"
And had to learn to tune a dozen watermans within a couple of minutes. Besides it impresses the students and makes them motivated.
But after a lifetime of music I rune the first string then the rest to it by ear then play a few chords
I Developed this technique because I was running a volunteer group I call "Peace love and ukulele - Healing Through Music"
And had to learn to tune a dozen watermans within a couple of minutes. Besides it impresses the students and makes them motivated.
See my signature, links and text -
But, in short, thinner strings have lower linear density, and thus have lower tension at the same scale length as thicker strings (which have higher linear density)....
edited to add - this is USUALLY when comparing strings of the same material composition, nylon vs. nylon and fluoro vs. fluoro, but an exception also for nylon vs. fluoro since nylon nearly always has lower linear density than fluoro, and thus nylon strings are nearly always thicker than fluoro...
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D
Dean Beaver
Guest
Yeh I'm pretty impressed when I see people playing or tuning by ear on the spot, I don't have a great ear for it but I think it gets better to various extent as you go.
Interesting is that relationship between the ear and the frequency of the note/s.
Where our ideas and perspectives may vary, and even tuners may vary in accuracy, the relationship between the note/s and ear is a trustworthy and dependable method of discernment which is in common, so it's a good way to acquire relative tuning outcome in instruments, and cultivate an ear.
Just something I've paid a bit more attention in recent last years, and had opportunities to learn, something I never really comprehended at an earlier stage, though always learning as it goes ...
Happy Ukeing ...
Tootler
Well-known member
You've complicated that last bit somewhat Booli. Fluorocarbon polymer has a higher density than nylon polymer so fluorocarbon strings can be thinner to achieve the same pitch at the same scale length. Nylon compositions such as nylgut will have slightly different densities than pure nylon because of the fillers added to achieve particular acoustic properties but the differences are quite small so you probably wouldn't notice difference in tension between a pure nylon string and one made from a nylon composition.
dinghy
Well-known member
ahoy
Snark tuner/metronome
have three of them
yours truly
mac
Snark tuner/metronome
have three of them
yours truly
mac
strumsilly
Well-known member
I have a few Snarks and they are OK, but I don't like it that they don't fold flat and are easy to break the ears of the socket. I have an Intellituner that does fold flat , has a stronger joint and prefer it. It is my oldest tuner and will probably outlast the newer Snarks. more expensive , but will last a lot longer.
https://www.amazon.com/Intelli-IMT500-Chromatic-Digital-Strings/dp/B002Q0WSO8
https://www.amazon.com/Intelli-IMT500-Chromatic-Digital-Strings/dp/B002Q0WSO8
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I use Electric Tuna, made by Fishman..... but seriously, the Crescendo Zen Strobe tuner is super accuate & inexpensive. I bought mine from Amazon.
Still this: https://uke-tuner.com/
It does its job although it takes some time.
I want to get a tuner, because I don't always have internet obviously.
It does its job although it takes some time.
I want to get a tuner, because I don't always have internet obviously.
scottcocoabeach
Active member
Hi Nickie,
When I read this post I immediately thought of the movie "Whiplash" and it definitely made me laugh. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time tuning than playing. It drives me crazy when I see a video posted and the instruments out of tune.
scottcocoabeach
Active member
I'm really surprised no one has mentioned the PolyTune Clip. They make it in black now in addition to white. They are more expensive than most mentioned here but I find it better than the less expensive options. I just ordered a Peterson Stroboclip SC-1 as well to try. PolyTune's are about $50 online and the Peterson is $80. If you get Guitar Center or others coupons you can usually save 15% on either of these and get free shipping.
Tuning on the 12th fret using overtones can be helpful as well.
Tuning on the 12th fret using overtones can be helpful as well.
