Song Help Request transposing Abm to key of C

joopiterandbeyond

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Song in key of E calls for one Aflatminor.
Transposing that to Key of C would call for an Fbm, no?
But I think that doesn't exist?

So what would I use instead?
 
don't give up on the Abminor; it is a very tasty chord. And going from an E maj or an Ab min is only a finger's difference. If you play the E as 1402 it is easy. The trick is on the C string fret the third fret with your annularis and the fourth fret with the pinky. Now to change to the Abminor, all you have to do is move the pinky from the C string to the E string. I only mention this on the off-chance that you might go back to the Ab at some point in the future. It is actually a really great key. With all the closed chords and "black key" notes, it really has a sound of its own.
 
I love the sound of the original chord, but the key wasn't a fit for my voice in this song :)
 
Coming back to this one...
How did you guys figure this out?
I used the circle of 5ths, and when I moved the circle around, the A landed at F...
 
This one I don't get...
In the chart above, I see where the C transposes to an E, but not where the Ab/G# transposes to an E (nor to an Em).

OH!!!! I see!!
I just pulled out my Circle again. I see what I was doing wrong!
I turned the E to line up with the C, but then transposed the A to F rather than the Ab to E (then add the minor).
i.e., I hadn't even realized there was both an A and an Ab in that spectrum, to transpose.
 
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You're looking at my chart backwards: the top row is the key you're transposing from (E major), the bottom row is the key you're transposing to (C major). C doesn't transpose to E, E transposes to C (E is above C). G# (top) transposes to E (bottom).

Oh, I hadn't realized they don't just reverse. Yes, I see now.

I'll explore the rest too...
 
Coming back to this one...
How did you guys figure this out?
I used the circle of 5ths, and when I moved the circle around, the A landed at F...

I mainly use the circle of 5ths for recognizing the "neighbour" keys. While I can't transpose very easy or fast, I do base my transposing on chord degree relating to a scale. I remember by heart that the I, IV and V (1. 4. and 5.) degrees of E major scale are E, A and B. These are always major chords.

I know also that the !! and III degree chords are F#m and G#m. Count as one whole step and 2 whole step up from E to find out if not knowing by heart. These are minor chords. The sixth degree VI is one whole step up from V if not knowing by heart and is C#m, always a minor chord in theory (there are always exceptions). VI degree scale note is also the relative minor of a major scale.

Like ubulele posted you can also mechanically write down the notes of both scales and do this by a lookup. In fact this is what you should do if not knowing things by heart. But what you should always aim at is try learning the scale degree of chords.

So I did not need to write any down, just knew that G#m is the 3rd degree chord in E major scale and same time knew that in C major scale the 3rd degree is Em.

G# chord can be also used in E/C#m tunes. The third degree chord can be major or minor in praxis.

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I analyze the song and its chording like this: Notice that this is not theoretically correct regarding degrees in minor key, but works for me. Regardless if a song is in major or minor or whatever mode, I use same roman number degrees based on the key signature only and its major scale. As an example for C/Am key signature I use I IV and V for C, F an G. And for Am Dm and E, use VIm, IIm and III. Those are the 6 basic degrees I try recognize.
 
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Thank you very much, Jarmo_S! It will take me a bit to process the above, then learn what I need to learn, but the guidance you folks are giving me is wonderful and much appreciated.
 
transposing wheel.jpg

Keeping one of these transposing wheels handy can save a lot of time. Cut out the two circles and use a brad to fasten them through the centre. Line up the original key on the outside and the target key on the inside. It works the same way as ubulele's chart, but you don't have to make a new one every time you want to transpose.
 
I found it easier to carry around the transposing table I made. No wheels or brads, just a 4" square piece of grid paper.
This is the A chromatic scale:

A A#/Bb B C C#/Db E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A

or if you want to reduce the complexity of the enharmonic notes for common keys:

A Bb B C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A

This is 12 alpha numeric characters and is all you have to ever remember to transpose. Every chromatic scale has these same 12 notes, they just start at a different letter for each key.
To make a table, get a piece of grid paper and make a 12 x 12 matrix, write the A chromatic scale in row 1 and column 1 and fill out the rest of the table. Then you have a look up table which will last as long as the paper its written on. After using it for a while you will only need to write out segments, like the key the music is written in and the key you want to transpose to.
If you want to make it even easier and quicker, learn the sharps and flats for the common ukulele keys, not every key. Like C A D G F. Then you leave out the # and b symbols because you know where they are in each scale or key and you get 8 characters. Use google to find the others when you need to. This works for major and minor scales:

A B C D E F G A A scale
C D E F G A B C C scale and so on.

Then to transpose you just write out the 16 characters in two alphabetical rows or two columns and line up the letters. You don't usually need a fancy wheel thing to work out how to write out 16 characters in two rows, which is what it comes down to when you are transposing. And if you have a page of sheet music to transcribe, it is much quicker to look at your two row table than to twiddle a wheel for every note. Over time you will be able to get rid of the paper and it will happen in your brain.

The wheel is not all that "fancy" Bill. It's the same as your rows of letters, except in a circle. You don't have to "twiddle a wheel for every note." You set the wheels for the original and target keys and leave it there till you're done transposing. It will tell you how to transpose. I wouldn't carry this around with me. It stays at home in the music room where I do my figuring out. I wouldn't use it at a jam or during a show. You probably wouldn't need it for simple songs, but for transposing from songs that have out of key chords, it could come in handy.
 
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Oh! That's different from my Circle of 5ths wheel (this one: http://www.ianchadwick.com/essays/ukulele/chord_wheel.pdf). I thought we were supposed to be able to use the 5ths wheel for transposing, too?

It certainly can be used for that too. As an example C/Am has in the circle of fifths neighbor keys F/Dm and G/Em. If you think about it, the chord names from those roots are also the 6 basic chords of a C major key.

If you go back to your original question of finding how G#m (Abm) from E major key transposes to C major. Looking at the circle of 5ths you find it under B/G#m, that is right from E/C#m. So at the same relative place from C/Am you will find your Em.

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In praxis as mentioned it can be E too quite often, the 3rd degree. Plus many other exceptions, but those 6 chords form a really solid foundation.

Edit:
I'm not getting why your link has like 3 disks and represent maybe some tool? Without rotating it has a lots of useful information. The basic circle of fifths should be enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

Edit2:
I found out this: http://vintageukemusic.com/cplug/circle-of-fifths-and-transposition-wheel/
And from it a quote:
To transpose a key, pick the song’s original key on the inner wheel and then rotate that wheel so that key lines up with the key you want on the outer wheel. Then play the chords shown on the outer wheel instead of those shown on the inner wheel.

So it is a sort of glorified version of the chromatic transposing circle tool :)
And has 2 ways to get results: The mechanical way described in the text, or what I prefer and described above with an example without this tool. No need then to rotate the inner wheel disk.
Of course when the chord to be transposed is something that does not belong to the major scale of the key signature by it's root note or is the 7th degree, the mechanical approach can become handy. There the uke's fretboard can help instead.
 
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Studying the replies here again, this time to attempt to understand how C# becomes A, and where we see that on a physical Circle of 5ths (if we do). So, a thanks again for having all this here, that I could come back to it all as needed!

I'm going to write out all twelve chromatic notes for every scale, and try out the other tips posted above, to see if that helps me get it.
 
Studying the replies here again, this time to attempt to understand how C# becomes A, and where we see that on a physical Circle of 5ths (if we do). So, a thanks again for having all this here, that I could come back to it all as needed!

I'm going to write out all twelve chromatic notes for every scale, and try out the other tips posted above, to see if that helps me get it.

I think you have a misunderstanding. Not all scales have twelve notes. For example, major scales have seven and pentatonic scales have five. I do think writing out the notes to scales is useful. Equally important, to me, is being aware of scale degrees (i.e., what's the first note of the scale, the second note, etc.). If you know these things, then you can transpose. For example:

C# major=C#, Eb, F, F#, Ab, Bb, C
A major=A, B, C#, D, E, F#, Ab

If you have something written in C# major and you want to turn it into A major, you just swap notes of the same degree from the two scales. Every time you see an F (3rd degree) in the original song, you swap it for C# (the 3rd degree of the A scale).

I know this sounds complicated, but it gets easier with practice. As a matter of fact, nowadays when I write down music, I never write the actual notes; I write roman numerals indicating the scale degree. I do this so that I can play the music in whatever key I want.

Lastly, I should say that I'm not a musician...so I may have misspoken or made an error. Hopefully others will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong
 
Ripok,
Your transposition from C# major to A major will work, but C# major is written in 7 sharps, so the scale would be C#, D#, E#, F#, G#, A#, B#, C#.
It is the same as Db, (the way this scale is usually written) which is written with 5 flats, so the scale would be Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, C, Db.

While your scale works, it's not standard practice mix flats and sharps in a single scale and using all sharps avoids using the same letter name twice in he same scale. (E#=F and B#=C)
 
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