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Thread: transposing Abm to key of C

  1. #11

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    Thank you very much, Jarmo_S! It will take me a bit to process the above, then learn what I need to learn, but the guidance you folks are giving me is wonderful and much appreciated.

  2. #12
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    transposing wheel.jpg

    Keeping one of these transposing wheels handy can save a lot of time. Cut out the two circles and use a brad to fasten them through the centre. Line up the original key on the outside and the target key on the inside. It works the same way as ubulele's chart, but you don't have to make a new one every time you want to transpose.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill1 View Post
    I found it easier to carry around the transposing table I made. No wheels or brads, just a 4" square piece of grid paper.
    This is the A chromatic scale:

    A A#/Bb B C C#/Db E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A

    or if you want to reduce the complexity of the enharmonic notes for common keys:

    A Bb B C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A

    This is 12 alpha numeric characters and is all you have to ever remember to transpose. Every chromatic scale has these same 12 notes, they just start at a different letter for each key.
    To make a table, get a piece of grid paper and make a 12 x 12 matrix, write the A chromatic scale in row 1 and column 1 and fill out the rest of the table. Then you have a look up table which will last as long as the paper its written on. After using it for a while you will only need to write out segments, like the key the music is written in and the key you want to transpose to.
    If you want to make it even easier and quicker, learn the sharps and flats for the common ukulele keys, not every key. Like C A D G F. Then you leave out the # and b symbols because you know where they are in each scale or key and you get 8 characters. Use google to find the others when you need to. This works for major and minor scales:

    A B C D E F G A A scale
    C D E F G A B C C scale and so on.

    Then to transpose you just write out the 16 characters in two alphabetical rows or two columns and line up the letters. You don't usually need a fancy wheel thing to work out how to write out 16 characters in two rows, which is what it comes down to when you are transposing. And if you have a page of sheet music to transcribe, it is much quicker to look at your two row table than to twiddle a wheel for every note. Over time you will be able to get rid of the paper and it will happen in your brain.
    The wheel is not all that "fancy" Bill. It's the same as your rows of letters, except in a circle. You don't have to "twiddle a wheel for every note." You set the wheels for the original and target keys and leave it there till you're done transposing. It will tell you how to transpose. I wouldn't carry this around with me. It stays at home in the music room where I do my figuring out. I wouldn't use it at a jam or during a show. You probably wouldn't need it for simple songs, but for transposing from songs that have out of key chords, it could come in handy.
    Last edited by Jim Yates; 09-30-2017 at 03:18 PM.

  4. #14
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    I made myself a transposing wheel many years ago, when I was playing different recorders, they are the easiest to use by far.

    Mine is made from a plastic saucer & a plastic lid
    Trying to do justice to various musical instruments.
    Formerly known as uke1950.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Yates View Post
    Oh! That's different from my Circle of 5ths wheel (this one: http://www.ianchadwick.com/essays/uk...hord_wheel.pdf). I thought we were supposed to be able to use the 5ths wheel for transposing, too?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by joopiterandbeyond View Post
    Oh! That's different from my Circle of 5ths wheel (this one: http://www.ianchadwick.com/essays/uk...hord_wheel.pdf). I thought we were supposed to be able to use the 5ths wheel for transposing, too?
    It certainly can be used for that too. As an example C/Am has in the circle of fifths neighbor keys F/Dm and G/Em. If you think about it, the chord names from those roots are also the 6 basic chords of a C major key.

    If you go back to your original question of finding how G#m (Abm) from E major key transposes to C major. Looking at the circle of 5ths you find it under B/G#m, that is right from E/C#m. So at the same relative place from C/Am you will find your Em.

    -----------

    In praxis as mentioned it can be E too quite often, the 3rd degree. Plus many other exceptions, but those 6 chords form a really solid foundation.

    Edit:
    I'm not getting why your link has like 3 disks and represent maybe some tool? Without rotating it has a lots of useful information. The basic circle of fifths should be enough.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

    Edit2:
    I found out this: http://vintageukemusic.com/cplug/cir...osition-wheel/
    And from it a quote:
    To transpose a key, pick the song’s original key on the inner wheel and then rotate that wheel so that key lines up with the key you want on the outer wheel. Then play the chords shown on the outer wheel instead of those shown on the inner wheel.
    So it is a sort of glorified version of the chromatic transposing circle tool
    And has 2 ways to get results: The mechanical way described in the text, or what I prefer and described above with an example without this tool. No need then to rotate the inner wheel disk.
    Of course when the chord to be transposed is something that does not belong to the major scale of the key signature by it's root note or is the 7th degree, the mechanical approach can become handy. There the uke's fretboard can help instead.
    Last edited by Jarmo_S; 10-02-2017 at 01:07 AM.

  7. #17
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    A couple easy ways to do your transposition

    http://www.logue.net/xp/index.htm

    http://tabtransposer.com

  8. #18

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    Studying the replies here again, this time to attempt to understand how C# becomes A, and where we see that on a physical Circle of 5ths (if we do). So, a thanks again for having all this here, that I could come back to it all as needed!

    I'm going to write out all twelve chromatic notes for every scale, and try out the other tips posted above, to see if that helps me get it.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by joopiterandbeyond View Post
    Studying the replies here again, this time to attempt to understand how C# becomes A, and where we see that on a physical Circle of 5ths (if we do). So, a thanks again for having all this here, that I could come back to it all as needed!

    I'm going to write out all twelve chromatic notes for every scale, and try out the other tips posted above, to see if that helps me get it.
    I think you have a misunderstanding. Not all scales have twelve notes. For example, major scales have seven and pentatonic scales have five. I do think writing out the notes to scales is useful. Equally important, to me, is being aware of scale degrees (i.e., what's the first note of the scale, the second note, etc.). If you know these things, then you can transpose. For example:

    C# major=C#, Eb, F, F#, Ab, Bb, C
    A major=A, B, C#, D, E, F#, Ab

    If you have something written in C# major and you want to turn it into A major, you just swap notes of the same degree from the two scales. Every time you see an F (3rd degree) in the original song, you swap it for C# (the 3rd degree of the A scale).

    I know this sounds complicated, but it gets easier with practice. As a matter of fact, nowadays when I write down music, I never write the actual notes; I write roman numerals indicating the scale degree. I do this so that I can play the music in whatever key I want.

    Lastly, I should say that I'm not a musician...so I may have misspoken or made an error. Hopefully others will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong

  10. #20
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    Ripok,
    Your transposition from C# major to A major will work, but C# major is written in 7 sharps, so the scale would be C#, D#, E#, F#, G#, A#, B#, C#.
    It is the same as Db, (the way this scale is usually written) which is written with 5 flats, so the scale would be Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, C, Db.

    While your scale works, it's not standard practice mix flats and sharps in a single scale and using all sharps avoids using the same letter name twice in he same scale. (E#=F and B#=C)
    Last edited by Jim Yates; 01-25-2018 at 07:46 AM.

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