Are older, well used ukuleles better?

Here's a personal anecdote, for what it's worth (I suspect, not very much). I saw an old uke advertised about forty miles from my home. Went to look at it, and found the seller was a very old man who had owned it since he was twelve years of age. His parents had bought it for him as a birthday present. He told me the town and the name of the music store from wence it came. He had played this uke all his life, as evidenced by the prodigious amount of wear on the fretboard.

He was selling the uke because he was now very frail and was moving into an assisted living facility. He could no longer play, because of arthritic fingers, and the uke was in very poor condition. As soon as I saw it, I knew it was no use to me, but he wasn't asking much for it and I didn't wish to disappoint him.

It was quite the worst ukulele I have ever seen - atrociously made, of nasty materials, with horribly ornate decorations very badly applied. Presumably, he never knew what is was like to play a good ukulele.

I fixed it up so that it was playable (just) but it sounded awful. A friend took it off my hands as a kitsch curiosity to hang on the wall.

ukantor said:

Here's a personal anecdote, for what it's worth (I suspect, not very much). I saw an old uke advertised about forty miles from my home. Went to look at it, and found the seller was a very old man who had owned it since he was twelve years of age. His parents had bought it for him as a birthday present. He told me the town and the name of the music store from wence it came. He had played this uke all his life, as evidenced by the prodigious amount of wear on the fretboard.

He was selling the uke because he was now very frail and was moving into an assisted living facility. He could no longer play, because of arthritic fingers, and the uke was in very poor condition. As soon as I saw it, I knew it was no use to me, but he wasn't asking much for it and I didn't wish to disappoint him.

It was quite the worst ukulele I have ever seen - atrociously made, of nasty materials, with horribly ornate decorations very badly applied. Presumably, he never knew what is was like to play a good ukulele.

I fixed it up so that it was playable (just) but it sounded awful. A friend took it off my hands as a kitsch curiosity to hang on the wall.

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Think I would have kept that uke as s mark of respect to the old gentleman who had played it all his life! A much loved ukulele is a beautiful thing..I hope your friend is appreciating it..if it were me who came across this uke, I would have spent money on it and given it pride of place amongst my uke family..it's called respecting the past...or maybe I'm too sentimental? This modern throw away society leaves me cold!

Better is such a subjective word....I am new to ukes, but have played guitar for over 40 years, in my humble experience what sounds good to you may well be crap to others. i have tried £5K plus guitars and hated the sound, but established players love them, use them, others lust after them.
I have tried ones costing a few pounds and been pleased with the sound they make.
More to the point, if it feels right in your hands, then you are more likely to enjoy playing it, and it may sound good to you. As for age, well, the longer I have an instrument, the more likely I will learn how to get a good sound out of it.
There is no doubt in my mind that instruments do change as they age, but I would say its not them that sound better, just my ability to play it.
An interesting experiment a few years ago with guitars, some established players asked to do a blindfold test, classic fenders and gibsons that were over 40yrs old, and new "aged" instruments, most preferred the new ones.....

spookelele said:

That's a very good point.

Say martin makes 500 of a model every year for 50 years. Some of them will be meh, and a few will be exceptional. Someone lucks into that exceptional one and plays the crap out of it because its great. Then they die, and it comes up for sale. The guy that buys it, is like... wow... why is this so great? it's better than anything I can get today.

But then... some of those will also be duds... and nobody will talk about them, so they get forgotten to history, and someone will get a new one and be like.. this is better than those old ones.. because tech/shiny/etc

There's a kamaka documentary... and one of the guys interviewed says something like... and this ukulele is special.. and will never leave the island. There's variance, and some great ukes were made. But.. there were also some... less great. Always has been, always will be.

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Your mention of Martin Guitars tweeked a memory of mine. In the Summer of 1960 I turned 15 and saved every penny from my Summer job to buy my first good guitar. The store I went to in downtown NYC had 12 or so versions of the one I could afford, an 016 New Yorker. The man at at the store said son, there are a dozen of these up in the attic. Go upstairs and play them all. Come down with the one that you think is the best. It was a very nice guitar that that I chose and was played very often. John Sebastian, of the Loving Spoonfuls play that guitar one day and told me never to sell it (of course I did when I was bumming around Europe and got sick of squeezing into the backseat of VW Beetles with it in its hardcase while hitchhiking). I had a friend who purchased the same model about 10 months later. They were like chalk and cheese.

So I guess the point of the story is that the universe is chaotic and that there is a lot of uncertainty. Adjust you expectation accordingly.

"Think I would have kept that uke as s mark of respect to the old gentleman who had played it all his life!"

Every time I looked at it, I felt profoundly sad that he had spent so much time and effort playing something that was atrociously poor. I just hope the rest of his life was more fulfilling.

Somebody sure played it a heck of a lot. Their fingernails had dug craters in the fretboard, by the first three frets. The old fella was far too ingenuous to make it up. On the other hand, I could be fabricating the whole saga.

Except that I'm not.

cyber3d said:

Are older, well used ukuleles better?

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I think that they are like people... so no.

And people are like ukuleles - as they get older they might not always become better, but they are more interesting - sometimes.

I believe there's a bit of Darwinism at work here. Those great sounding old instruments are those that survived due to qualities that kept them out of the scrap heap. Nobody goes to any great length to keep a poor sounding instrument. It's the outstanding ones that have the best chance of surviving.

kkimura said:

I believe there's a bit of Darwinism at work here. Those great sounding old instruments are those that survived due to qualities that kept them out of the scrap heap. Nobody goes to any great length to keep a poor sounding instrument. It's the outstanding ones that have the best chance of surviving.

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Yeah, but I bet there's also plenty that just sat in someone's closet, but are just meh.

Thats a loaded queztion, Wood maturity is only one factor in a uke to sound good, quality of wood, quality of build,
Having a good Luthier and materials before you add in wood maturity into the equation. A bad sounding uke will always sound bad...if you had said after decades of playing to season the wood..it could improve well wish hard
Alot of people think their ukes have improved in the years don't take account they have improved too.
Another factor is higher quality higher end uke such as martin used higher grade of woods back then, which may
be a reason foe some ukes COULD, improve with maturity being seasoned. However if you had a tourist uke and
Waited 60 years, it probably WOULD sound the same subpar tone...

I just can't help but chime in. I've sold pretty old ukes that just did not sound good to me at all. I've sold some late model ukes that I thought sounded pretty crappy too. I've sold ukes that I no longer played because they brought memories I wanted to lose.
I think I've kept the best 2 I've ever had, and one gets played every day, unless I feel rotten. Then I just hold it.
Of course, the more I play it, the better it sounds, but that may be a factor of my playing improving a little each day. Hopefully.
I don't keep what I don't like, no matter what stories are behind it. I like Booli's expression "hedging into minimalism."
I have one uke I'd just as soon throw onto a campfire, but it's too darn pretty to look at. Reminds me not to waste money on impulse buying.

I guess that, like people, there's good and bad ones of all ages. I just took the Tonerite off my lapel, I haven't opened up yet, although I'm already well seasoned!

Ah ha! I found the text that got me post this thread in the first place:

Acacia (Also look under "Black Acacia" and "Koa".)
Keep in mind that there are 1300 species of Acacias, spread all over the world, and that even experts may have difficulty in telling them apart. Many do not grow large enough to be used for guitars. But for our purposes, their similarities are far greater than their differences. That does not mean they are all identical, but it may be hard to differentiate between them and make generalities that transcend the inherent differences caused by a luthier's particular build methods and the individual differences n a piece of wood of the same species.

From the Pono Website - "As for tonal comparisons to Mahogany, the Acacia family (including Acacia Koa) is different in weight and density. Mahogany is lighter and less dense, and thus produces not only a warm tone, but a unique tonal clarity and open brilliance. And in time, Mahogany changes in color and tone more than any other wood we have experienced. For those who own vintage mahogany guitars and ‘ukuleles, the aged tone is unsurpassable.

Acacia is heavier and more dense than Mahogany, and thus has it’s own unique tonal projection. And of course a beauty all it’s own. Most people are familiar with the sound of Acacia woods, having owned or played instruments made of Hawaiian Koa. All Acacia woods are similar. The Acacia that we use for our Pono instruments is similar in appearance to what was known to old timers in Hawaii as “black Koa.”

For lack of a better description, Acacia wood produces what could be called a deep woody tone. ... Acacia Preta does lack the rich red color tones of Acacia Koa, but still has beautiful black and brown figured grain patterns. "

I agree with those who say that old, much played instruments were good instruments all along, and that this is why they survived all this time.

Besides this, though, my 1920s Lyon&Healy mahogany soprano feels and sounds different than modern mahogany sopranos. The age of the wood may contribute to this, but it was likely also built differently than most instruments are crafted now. The "vintage sound" is probably part material and part construction. There is also the psychological component: the "mojo" that old, well-played instruments ooze is an inspiring motivator that contributes to the experience. Brandnew instruments "feel" a little soulless.

I think there could be another side to this, in the past, the trees that were used were likely very old themselves.
The woods we use are just plain different, young against old, because we harvest them more quickly, and, in the past wood was dried naturally, which took time, 3 years wasn't uncommon, whilst nowadays we kiln dry it, all this must affect its tonal quality.

A lot of my friends are into vintage stuff. I think that for them it is the fact that they are holding a piece of history in their hands. I would guess that people who like vintage ukes feel the same way. It is fun to try to imagine who played them and where. It isn't about the sound in their own basement or living room, or wherever they play it, it is about imagining that sound somewhere else at another time in history, and in a different context, that makes it sound so good.

uke1950 said:

I think there could be another side to this, in the past, the trees that were used were likely very old themselves.
The woods we use are just plain different, young against old, because we harvest them more quickly, and, in the past wood was dried naturally, which took time, 3 years wasn't uncommon, whilst nowadays we kiln dry it, all this must affect its tonal quality.

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That is the same issue with clarinets and oboes. Less good wood and they hurry the process. As to ukes, I used to wonder about the whole vintage thing until I had the opportunity to play some. A few that I had tried had a resonance, depth and ring unlike anything I had heard from some fine modern luthier built instruments. It made me rethink the issue. I am not sure why they sounded that much better. Perhaps some of the new instruments will sound even better in another 75 years.

I am not firmly in one camp or the other. A great instrument is a a great instrument. There have been some amazing things made in all eras. some from years ago were mediocre, while some today are fantastic. I would say you have to judge each instrument on its own merits, not by the brand or year.

Despite all that, in the hands of a great player even a meh instrument sounds pretty darned good.

MY preference is for the older ukuleles. The wood that was used 70 years ago is generally superior to what is common today. Wood does settle in (good) glue hardens and cracks (not good). What is not taken in is the care and even rebuilds a true vintage ukulele will go through. Subjectively I prefer the older instruments and accept that its history will vary, however I love to rebuild these old gems.
This thread reminds me of a decision I made several years ago. I had a fairly new Larrivee in Koa and Spruce, It did every thing well. But I found myself playing a beat-up Martin or a modified Regal (Redwood sound board). The Larrivee got traded away and I do miss it but the vintage Martins have my heart.

kkimura said:

I believe there's a bit of Darwinism at work here. Those great sounding old instruments are those that survived due to qualities that kept them out of the scrap heap. Nobody goes to any great length to keep a poor sounding instrument. It's the outstanding ones that have the best chance of surviving.

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I feel sure that the above is the case and that it is true of so many other things. Some cars are restored and others forgotten, many songs have been written but only a comparative few do we sing today, much classical music will have been written but only some survives, beautiful jewellery has been made but only the best and not out of fashion escapes recycling.

Were all things built better years ago? I don’t believe so but to an extent they were built differently in that markets were more local and reputations were built and lost over longer periods than is now the case; and the technology surrounding design and construction has changed in so far as different materials are available and technical analysis is more available.

As an associated topic the way that we feel towards and interact with instruments is interesting, there is a feeling towards provenance (association with history) and maybe something else too. I have two Ukes that, in terms of design and age since manufacture, are effectively father and son. The old one had seen years of service before coming to me, it needed a tidy-up and the sound board is bowed; for reasons I can only guess at and not understand it ‘calls’ to me to be played in a stronger way than the ‘better’ younger one. Why is that, is it an association with provenance or something else? It’s strange to me but it seems to me that artefacts can sometimes absorb and give off something(s) immeasurable, illogical and mostly unnoticed that interacts with us. I don’t understand it, don’t particularly see or feel it or them - the same could be said about tv and radio waves - and it’s wacky. However, a one time everyone believed that the world was flat and that there was something wrong with you if you didn’t too. Because it often isn’t the case I think it best to never assume that our understanding of the world is either complete or accurate. Maybe there is something different about some old instruments that we aren’t yet aware of?