Baritone Soundboard - Repair/Replace

ash13brook

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I talked a friend of mine out of a Kingston baritone he bought for $20, but immediately replaced with a soprano.
I only have interest in it because I have a long neck banjo of the same brand.
The top is indented toward the sound hole a little. The saddle could be sanded enough to make it playable, but what's the fun in that.
I read about putting it in a plastic bag with a damp rag to see if it would go back to it's original position, but I feel that's not a good fix.
The top has only one brace that runs parallel to the bridge.
What I really would like to do, as much for the experience as anything, is to replace the top with proper bracing.
I know this entails removing the fingerboard and then the sound board.
If I accidentally ruin it in the process, it's no loss, really.
I know that nobody will think this is worth the effort, but it would be a learning experience and maybe a usable ukulele, too. I might even try inlaying a rosette.

Thanks,
Matt
 
Pictures would be good. If its not an expensive instrument and you want to experiment then no harm done. I will say that its kind of normal for there to be a small degree of inwards bulging between the bridge and the sound hole. The only way to really avoid it is to build the top with a gentle arch in the first place.

Instruments that are constructed with a flat top, WILL warp a little, unless they are horrendously overbuilt in the first place.
 
Here are a couple of pictures.
As you can see, it's not real bad. If I could straighten the soundboard in a manner that would be a good long term fix, I probably would. I was thinking with only the one brace running under the bridge, that fix just might not stay fixed. That's the reason I thought I might replace the top.
I now also notice that the neck has the slightest concave bow from the body to the nut.

Thanks,
Matt

MattIMG_20171104_100642994.jpgIMG_20171104_100825692.jpgIMG_20171104_100847798.jpg
 
Here are a couple of pictures.
As you can see, it's not real bad. If I could straighten the soundboard in a manner that would be a good long term fix, I probably would. I was thinking with only the one brace running under the bridge, that fix just might not stay fixed. That's the reason I thought I might replace the top.
I now also notice that the neck has the slightest concave bow from the body to the nut.

Thanks,
Matt

MattView attachment 104151View attachment 104152View attachment 104153

I have numerous ukuleles that look like that. The dip in yours is slightly more than mine but not that extreme. Par for the course. A SLIGHT concave bow in the neck is GOOD. The last thing you want is a convex bow so slightly concave is great.

Just as a learning experience, go for it, yet to improve the instrument. Unlikely.
This is Flat Top CONSTRUCTION for you. A Flat top built to resist any warping will be TOO stiff and strong to sound any good. You make them light enough to sound good and they will warp over time. The only alternative is to build the instrument with a convex arch in the first place which takes skill and more time so its not a technique used on inexpensive instruments.

EDIT: Oh and keeping the instrument hydrated if you live in a dry climate is good practice.
 
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I may just adjust the saddle and nut and live with it, but what is the procedure for removing the fretboard if I decide to replace the top?

Matt
 
I may just adjust the saddle and nut and live with it, but what is the procedure for removing the fretboard if I decide to replace the top?

Matt

There is no good procedure for removing a fret board. Many just cut it off at the body and glue in on again later if they do anything at all.
 
I've decided not to try and replace the top.
But with the top warping toward the soundhole, is intonation affected? Also, with the string fretted at the 18th fret(highest) there's a considerable distance to the strings at the 8th. The nut is pretty high. Should I lower both the slots in the nut and the saddle to bring the strings closer to the fretboard? In what order?
Also, I do think I'll strip it and refinish it. What's the best stripper to use? Regular furniture stripper?

Thanks,
Matt
 
I've decided not to try and replace the top.
But with the top warping toward the soundhole, is intonation affected? Also, with the string fretted at the 18th fret(highest) there's a considerable distance to the strings at the 8th. The nut is pretty high. Should I lower both the slots in the nut and the saddle to bring the strings closer to the fretboard? In what order?
Also, I do think I'll strip it and refinish it. What's the best stripper to use? Regular furniture stripper?

Thanks,
Matt

It is possible that the intonation is effected by the warping however ukuleles are notorious for not being built accurately in the first place. Maybe the intonation got worse from the warping, maybe it got better. Measure the intonation with a tuner and find out.

Yes if the action is high then lower it at both ends. I don't know if there is a correct order to do it. Lower the nut to get a decent action in the open position and lower the saddle to improve the action up the neck.

Also, with the string fretted at the 18th fret(highest) there's a considerable distance to the strings at the 8th.
Can you explain more? I really don't understand what you are trying to say.
 
I may just adjust the saddle and nut and live with it, but what is the procedure for removing the fretboard if I decide to replace the top?

You heat the fingerboard until the glue turns loose. If you don't have a long enough heating pad you have to do this carefully starting at one end, carefully working your way toward the other end.

Some take the shortcut of removing the fret closest to the top of the upper bout, and cutting through the fingerboard with a very narrow saw.

Videos are on YouTube for both methods. https://youtu.be/jYJIJOF1ZV0
 
Can you explain more? I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

I was trying to give an idea of the bow in the neck and nut height. But, I see that really doesn't say much. I'll lower the nut slots to about where I want them, then take care of the saddle. If the nut still needs some tweaking, I'll finish it then.
What about stripping the finish? any advice there?
Do you think I would be better off with a flat sound board, intonation-wise? I have no qualms about trying to replace the top as a learning experience.

Thanks,
Matt
 
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I was trying to give an idea of the bow in the neck and nut height. But, I see that really doesn't say much. I'll lower the nut slots to about where I want them, then take care of the saddle. If the nut still needs some tweaking, I'll finish it then.
What about stripping the finish? any advice there?
Do you think I would be better off with a flat sound board, intonation-wise? I have no qualms about trying to replace the top as a learning experience.

Thanks,
Matt

I'm all about measuring so measure the intonation and see where its at now. Assuming you have a clip on headstock tuner or another suitable tuner get the instrument in tune and then gradually fret up the neck and see what the intonation does. That's the first step and it could conceivably be flat or sharp.

The next step is to use a rule and measure up the instrument but lets just start with what a tuner tells you about the intonation.

I have no experience in stripping/refinishing an instrument.
 
I'll do some checking of the intonation in the next couple of days and get back.
Y'all can forget the refinishing question. I read a little about it and it ain't for me.

Thanks,
Matt
 
The intonation goes sharp at the first fret on all strings.
I'm using a Snark tuner. They go sharp about a "line" and a half at the first to a little over two at the highest. Not a full half-tone, though.

Matt
 
OK, that's going quite a bit sharp, which is unfortunately "normal" these days but we needed to know for sure before we started. The saddle rotating forwards probably contributed to this sharpness but its not responsible for all of that. The intonation going sharp from the first fret indicates that the nut could be misplaced as well. The thing to note here is that even if you put in the work to raise up the saddle to correct the forwards rotation you still wouldn't have corrected all the sharp intonation.

Do you know what the scale length on the instrument is , supposed to be?

You are going to have to measure from scratch anyway. The zero/zero point when measuring the scale length/intonation is the centre of the 12th fret at its highest point where it comes into contact with the strings.

The formula for actual scale length is nominal scale length + saddle compensation or more accurately the distance from inside nut to centre of the 12th fret x 2 + saddle compensation. If the instrument is going sharp the first culprit is a lack of saddle compensation yet on your instrument I suspect that the nut is also placed further away from the centre of the 12 fret than it should be.

OK, Measure from the inside nut to inside the saddle to get a ball park figure for the scale length. A fraction more than a "roundish" figure is what we are looking for with the "roundish" figure being the nominal scale length and the fraction more being the saddle compensation. The roundish number could be 19", 20", 20 1/4", 20 1/2" or even 21". It could also conceivably be in metric. The distance from the centre of the 12th fret to inside the nut should be precisely half of the "round" number.

Start measuring the instrument and see what you get.
 
So, the scale length measures 19 1/4".
Nut to center of 12th is 9 9/16".


Matt

Well that's all correct. If anything there is a little compensation at the nut which is flattening the open position intonation. At this point we can't get away from the culprit being that the saddle has rotated forwards causing the intonation to go sharp.

Solutions? If the action is high then start by lowering it as that will flatten the intonation a little. If you have room on the saddle then file the contact points longer. If the intonation is still sharp in the open position then you could remove the nut and file the end of the fretboard down. Just work slowly and do one thing at a time. If you go too far then the intonation will go flat.
 
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