Headstock Shape G7 Test

Graham Greenbag

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2017
Messages
2,194
Reaction score
1,202
Location
U.K.
I’ve created this thread to share an observation and to seek a bit of advice, hope someone can help but if not then be more informed anyway.

It’s a few years since I started playing, my progress hasn’t been stellar but rather rather slow and steady. If the Tortoise and the Hare analogy is used then I’m possible amongst the slowest of Tortoises but have still achieved a useful level of club player level skill. I practice most days.

With that in mind I was a bit shocked to discover that a simple and subtle feature on my two favourite Ukes is making life difficult. I’d put a recently observed difficulty down to weaknesses in my own developing technique, etc. When I’m playing up near the nut on chords such as G7 and Fdim I find if best to turn my hand such that my fingers point down the Uke towards the Saddle. However, in doing so the side of my hand, below my first finger is pushed firmly into the Uke headstock and ideally I could do with being able to rotate my hand further. That’s a difficult picture but try those chords in the same way and you might better follow what I say.

For reference, with numbering from the G string (http://www.gotaukulele.com/2011/01/beginner-tips-what-do-4-digit-numbers.html), the G7 chord would be 0212 and the lesser known Fdim would be 1212.

The Ukes concerned are a LU-21P and a KA-P, to me they sound lovely and they have repaid, in spades, the time and effort put into setting them up. However, on both Ukes (they are near clones), the transition profile between nut and tuners would be best moved towards the tuners and so leave space for a more rotated hand. Well that’s my view of my hands and my Ukes, its an opinion and, very likely, YMMV.

Looking at older Ukes with friction tuners (and the current Martin S1) it looks, to me, that they have a noticeably narrower Headstock and that the Tuning Pegs are placed further away from the nut.
Edit 1). Of course that might be an optical illusion and might vary between manufacturers, some measurements are needed.
Edit 2). Having now taken a few dimensions, by scaling off of photographs, my two Ukes are far from the worse culprits and there were some surprises. It’s no surprise to me though though that the best that I’ve seen was on a well know design from decades ago, that company no longer trades.
Perhaps that more ergonomic design is as a result of player input for function rather than making something with perhaps more visual or sales appeal - I don’t know but I’m cynical.

I’m wondering what my options are now and have identified a few - including just ‘grin and bare it’. For a few reasons I’m loathed to attack the headstocks with my woodworking gear but could. For virtually every other need that I currently have these Ukes are great. However, perhaps one pragmatic option is to let one or both of them go to a new user (who should be delighted with them) and to then purchase another Uke with a ‘better’ headstock profile, but if so then how do I identify a superior profile. For reference all my Ukes have been internet purchases, I don’t mind used instruments, IMHO physical shops can be better than web based suppliers but mostly aren’t.

Your suggestions and shared experience would be welcomed.

Edit.
In later posts the terminology (name) of one of my suggested chords seems to be in question, for completeness in this original post my reference source is: https://ukuchords.com/files/UkuChord...ard.png?x37163 .
Edim (0101) is also easier with the fingers pointing down the fretboard towards the saddle.
 
Last edited:
I think it would really help if you could get someone else to snap a few pics of you hand in this position or perhaps a short video.
 
Hard to imagine an easier chord than g7. I can't understand the issue.
 
Last edited:
I know what you mean, but don't see anything unusual about the shape of the Lanikai headstock that would make it any more so than most other ukuleles. Maybe with a wider nut it would be easier to form the chords without rotating the hand quite so much?

At the extreme, you could try something like this Risa which has no headstock...

https://www.ukulele.de/shop4/en/risa-uke-solid-soprano-geared-tuners
 
with numbering from the G string (http://www.gotaukulele.com/2011/01/b...t-numbers.html), the G7 chord would be 0212 and the lesser known Fdim would be 1212.
Thumb behind the neck.

G7 = index on 3 - middle on 2 - ring on 4

Fdim = index on 1 - ring on 2 - middle on 3 - pinky on 4

(Tricky, but do able, just tried it as it isn't one that I use.) :)
 
Pictures I'd like also, because none of those fingerings the OP posted are not that difficult.

It is not Fdim that 1212, but Fdim7 (alias Ddim7, G#dim7, Bdim7) also denoted with many songbooks with a degree circle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminished_seventh_chord

With ukulele we need yes as Graham posted to have some left hand hold flexibility. I originally thought it was a capo getting in a way like it usually does ;)
 
If your headstock is getting in the way of your hand making chord shapes it would seem to me that it points to a need to learn a new way to make the shape rather than a design deficiency of the ukulele or a need to alter the ukulele. I too fail to understand the difficulty with a G7 which should be among the easiest chords to learn. I find it difficult to make the Fdim chord with 4 separate fingers. I barre the first fret and use my middle and ring fingers to complete the chord.
 
For me I keep my thumb behind the neck almost the same as with barre when playing Fdim7. It is certainly better for me than barring to have sure none is damped. And leaves a lots of room for fingers, The wrist is somewhat towards the tuners.

You can call it Fdim if you want, just what you call a diminished triad then?
 
Thank you all for the many responses. The problem or issue I find is of something making life unnecessarily difficult rather than impossible, and I did say that the problem found was subtle and gave examples of different head shapes. Working around the problem isn’t that hard - heck, a load of people will work around it without even understanding it’s there or how things could be improved - but any way of making your Uke more comfortable and easier to play is good.

The terminology of one of my suggested chords seems to be in question, my reference source will be added to the original post and is: https://ukuchords.com/files/UkuChords_Complete180ChordChartsPoster_Standard.png?x37163 . Edim (0101) is also easier with the fingers pointing down the fretboard towards the saddle.

I hear the request to post pictures and, yes, it isn’t the easiest of concepts to understand - I’ve tried hard to explain but do understand that somethings are hard to visualise or comprehend, sorry. Additionally the Soprano scale has a degree of ‘compactness’ or spacial constraint to it such that what would be minor or un-noticed problems on larger scales become more significant on the small scale. If someone could briefly explain how to post a picture then I’ll think about it.
 
Last edited:
Thumb behind the neck.

G7 = index on 3 - middle on 2 - ring on 4

Fdim = index on 1 - ring on 2 - middle on 3 - pinky on 4

(Tricky, but do able, just tried it as it isn't one that I use.) :)

Thanks Keith, yes there are a few work arounds and when I used four fingers a couple were swapped from your way. Lots of ways of doing the same thing. Using the index finger to Barr across the first fret I place my middle finger on the A string and my ring on the C string; that combination isn’t the obvious one but it seems to ring cleanest for me and avoids the problems found when rotating the hand.

As above I’m really seeking more to understand the ergonomics of the Soprano Uke headstock better, so that I can make life easier for myself, rather than ways to work around something: my core aim is to understand and then remove the issues, where possible.
 
Last edited:
Aw go ahead and bust out the Dremel. Then you'll have a custom.
 
Aw go ahead and bust out the Dremel. Then you'll have a custom.

Well that’s tempting, but I’d just feel like a Vandal. They’re lovely Ukes as they are, perfect for someone, so it’s probably best to learn a bit more and look out for the (yet to be marketed) Brüko Soprano Pineapple.
 
I've not seen these exact ukes, but I have experienced what the OP is talking about. At a uke festival last August someone was passing around a Deereing Concert Banjo Uke, and one player complained about this same issue, that the headstock - though not particular wide - was shaped so as to interfere with your left hand. When I got to play it I noticed the same thing, that the lower "wing" of the headstock and the tuner button would dig into the side of your hand while playing an Fm or perhaps an E7. You could avoid it by twisting your hand position, or just avoid it by playing a different uke.

_5_5_207.jpg
 
Fmb5. Since the 20s at least, "dim" on guitar/uke chord names has been taken to mean the dim7 of formal theory. The guitar chord conventions are a law unto themselves, and differ in a number of other ways from formal theory conventions, so the use of dim for dim7 is in no way less correct, and in fact is more prevalent and thus more "standard". Diminished triads are seldom used in comparison to dim7s. Similarly the circlet (degree) is usually taken to mean dim7. You can elect to use dim7 and o7 instead, but for the diminished triad you should still use mb5 on guitar chord names to avoid any misunderstanding.


For chord shapes, I rarely have to swivel my wrist toward the headstock so much that it makes contact. But then, I play larger ukes, which make it less troublesome to fit the fingers on the frets without scrunching so much into each other. I also use a strap, so my left hand doesn't have to do double duty of fretting and supporting the neck, leaving it with greater mobility, particularly leaving the palm clear of the neck and giving the fingers a more natural arch. (This also helps when one needs to clear a capo; using a low-profile capo also helps greatly.)

Good point Ubulele. I have seldom played a diminished triad when I read Cº or Cdim. It is usually assumed that the four note symmetrical chord is what is intended. I have never found a time when playing Cº as 2323 or 5656 or 8989. . .on a ukulele sounds out of place or discordant.
 
I’m wondering what my options are now and have identified a few - including just ‘grin and bare it’. For a few reasons I’m loathed to attack the headstocks with my woodworking gear but could. For virtually every other need that I currently have these Ukes are great. However, perhaps one pragmatic option is to let one or both of them go to a new user (who should be delighted with them) and to then purchase another Uke with a ‘better’ headstock profile, but if so then how do I identify a superior profile. For reference all my Ukes have been internet purchases, I don’t mind used instruments, IMHO physical shops can be better than web based suppliers but mostly aren’t.
Your situation was brought to my attention over a year ago from a client. Although I've done single sided headstocks for a while, it didn't dawn on me the advantage from a first position chording position. From a functional perspective, this applies. From a form perspective, the poll says it. http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com...erence-Single-Sided-or&highlight=Single+sided

At this point, I think more of mine are single sided, although the poll says I should do otherwise. Caveat - my instruments are not mainstream, so there's some bit of error in the poll, as it applies to me.
 
Your situation was brought to my attention over a year ago from a client. Although I've done single sided headstocks for a while, it didn't dawn on me the advantage from a first position chording position. From a functional perspective, this applies. From a form perspective, the poll says it. http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com...erence-Single-Sided-or&highlight=Single+sided

Thanks, that’s an interesting perspective and a helpful recognition of the small issue that I have found on my two Sopranos. At the moment the visual aspects of the single sided form don’t appeal to me but I can definitely see its potential advantages - a good option to have for a custom build but I don’t know of many ‘off the shelf’ Ukes that are built that way.

Looking at the headstock design of my two Pineapples I can see plenty of scope for improving the existing layout. The top 1” of the headstock is, IMHO, not well used space as it’s just got a maker’s name there in very large print. By reallocating that space there is scope to move the tuning heads away from the nut and that then frees up space directly above the nut. The troublesome to fret Chords already mentioned become comfortable enough when raised by a semitone: that’s by using the same shape (with additional fingers if needed) but moved down the fretboard, towards the saddle, by one fret. With that in mind the straight profile of the neck needs extending up into the headstock by 3/4” and then the existing change of profile needs to start at that further point from the nut. Simple enough really but not so good for providing advertising space and it might look unusual to start with - looks and function sometimes compromise each other.

As I look around on the Web there’s very few Ukes seem to give the extra hand space I was hoping to find, please say if you know of any.
 
Last edited:
Thanks, that’s an interesting perspective and a helpful recognition of the small issue that I have found on my two Sopranos. At the moment the visual aspects of the single sided form don’t appeal to me but I can definitely see its potential advantages - a good option to have for a custom build but I don’t know of many ‘off the shelf’ Ukes that are built that way. . . .

As I look around on the Web there’s very few Ukes seem to give the extra hand space I was hoping to find, please say if you know of any.
Not sure if mine could be considered "of the shelf", but they find their way to Andrew's site, as does Chuck's. I believe you can order directly from Derek Shimizu and Bob Gleason as well.
One reason why I like them - you don't see them "off the shelf" so if you have one, its probably a custom.

Fender's ukulele naturally has a single side; not sure if they're still making them.

You'd have to search, but I can tell you Joji leaves some room, and Dave Ingalls' transition is very small.
http://www.theukulelereview.com/brand-overview/

In doing one for my client that mentioned the space issue, I adjusted the backside of the headstock transition area which gave him a little more room on the traditional headstock. Note: I was only able to do this because we met in person, and I could see what/where his issue was. More reason why customs make sense.
 
Last edited:
I think the best answer was from Croaky Keith, get your thumb behind the neck. I had the same interference issue with a slot head tenor (I only play tenor) until I simply started using better technique. It makes for a long term permanent fix, but takes some getting used to.
 
Top Bottom