Please explain this to me.

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When I first started playing the ukulele I was pretty quiet about it. I have a lot of very musical family and friends and frankly, they were a bit intimidating to someone with no musical background at all. So I quietly played my ukulele with little or no advertisement of it. But there came a point where keeping it under wraps was not possible anymore, and it came out that I had been secretly posing as a musician. When one of my more musically absorbed in-laws found out, she kindly embraced me as a peer and we started talking music talk. One of the first things she advised me was that I absolutely needed to learn the I-IV-V in numerous, if not all, keys. With that progression of chords I could play anything, according to her. I could jam with the best of them. Some time later, she introduced me to the circle of fifths, telling me that with the circle of fifths I could play anything. I could jam with the best of them. So I printed it out and taped it to the back of my ukulele for quick reference.

The discovery of the circle of fifths was like a warm spring day, after the winter of the I-IV-V. I-IV-V had not been treating me well. Because of one thing, that pesky third minor. Here I am, armed with my I-IV-V, playing the key of C, and there’s an Em, just as proud as could be, standing there with the G and the F. Then there were A minors, which my all knowing sister-in-law informed me were actually a C, and therefore quite in line with the formula. And all of a sudden, I-IV and V were not so transparent. There were a number of hidden chords there as well that I wasn’t aware of. By then I had decided that I was going to concentrate on songs in the key of C, because frankly, I-IV-V was getting very complicated, and trying to deal with more than one key was putting me in overload. And all those A minors, D minors, E minors, E7s, A7s were constantly throwing me off. So when I printed out the circle of fifths and taped it to the back of my ukulele for quick reference, I was quite satisfied to leave the I-IV-V behind and chalk it up to experience. Ahh, but then came the realization that possibly the circle of fifths was no more than a I-IV-V disguised in a circle. But I kept the faith, as my chart taped to the back of my ukulele showed me that an A minor was in fact a C. It was right there in that inner circle, all I had to do was stop whatever I was playing and look. A little cumbersome when I was sitting in on a jam session, but I was sure that I would get better at it. But then, it all came crashing down.

I was starting to wonder about the circle of fifths when a friend wanted me to learn Hotel California. I had met him earlier in the summer playing at the farmer’s market, and he had invited me to join him. So with my circle of fifths taped to the back of my ukulele I joined my new friend each Saturday with the knowledge that I could figure it out, as long as I had my circle of fifths. The only problem was that I didn’t have a lot of time to consult my little circle in the middle of the songs, so I satisfied myself by muting and strumming whenever I got lost, happy to just keep the rhythm going. But then one day he suggested that I learn Hotel California, and we would play it, key of C for my benefit. On a piece of scrap paper, he wrote, Am,E7,G,D,F,C,Dm,E7. I have to say, that to this day, I’m still not sure that is the key of C, and to this day I can not make that chord progression fit into the circle. Frankly, this guy is amazing. He just seems to know how to play songs with no reference material at all. I am still trying to figure out just what formula he is using. I ask him, what formula do you use, and he just laughs, keeping it his secret.

So let me end this manifesto. I bring all this up, because so often I hear and see people who apparently have much more knowledge of music than I do, suggesting to people new to music and new to playing the ukulele, that the circle of fifths is the holy grail. Learn it and you can play any song. Where am I going wrong? After four years I just don’t see it, and I hesitate to pass it on to newbies. Anyone else saying, that circle of fifths just isn't working for me?
 
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I'm more of a melody player, I don't know what key I play them in, & I'm not at all worried, the notes are there on the bit of paper in front of me, all I do is play them on my uke. :)
 
I'm more of a melody player, I don't know what key I play them in, & I'm not at all worried, the notes are there on the bit of paper in front of me, all I do is play them on my uke. :)

;):agree: that's pretty much what I do after playing for almost 6 years. My main group has a mentoring program with 4 levels, each level is about a 1 hour session. There's orientation, then level 1, which is just an introduction to the uke and it's parts, strings names and numbers, etc. The 2nd level dips into I IV V, sort of thing. Level 3 and 4 is almost all circle of fifths transposing to different keys. I kind of understand how it's supposed to work, but it's all worthless to me while playing. Last week, I helped with level 2 being taught by one of the main guys who helped write the program, he's a college music major. He took the whole hour teaching the C, F and G7 chords. I would have been bored out of my mind!
 
I've only used the Circle of Fifths to transpose a song if the original key has chords that are hard for me to fret.

Otherwise I use a capo.

I am a simple person, and a lot of this theory is still way over my head, but I am trying.

Someone who withholds knowledge and laughs in your face is not a nice person and I would avoid them at all cost.

OTOH, Booli has been helping me to slowly understand the very basic seeds of theory, and if nothing else, I am more confident in my playing.

Yes, I know Booli in real life and he was the person that introduced me to this forum. :)
 
Played guitar for nearly 20 years, in gigging bands as well as at home, without even having heard of the circle. Came across it a few years ago, found it interesting but don't make use of it in my playing. In my opinion a much more useful skill to develop is playing by ear, I've definitely found that properly useful in a jam rather than worrying about music theory. My uncle has always played guitar but can't read music, doesn't use the circle and taught himself how to play the piano by playing things from ear last year, before composing his own stuff. That's the style I prefer and aspire to, rather than the theory side of it. I do find the theory side very interesting and appreciate music in a different way since learning some of it, but I'd rather sit by the radio and figure something out, then transpose it to a key I like.
 
Someone who withholds knowledge and laughs in your face is not a nice person and I would avoid them at all cost.

)
I don't think my friend is withholding any knowledge. My suspicion is that there is no magic formula, and he knows that. I'm still looking. That's why he laughs. Perhaps he finds my naivety humorous.
 
What do you expect the Circle of Fifths to tell you ? It is merely a diagrammatic way of identifying which chords are in a certain key and how many sharps or flats are in the associated diatonic scale.

As you seem to be discovering not all music restricts itself to a certain key / diatonic scale throughout the whole piece. Google terms such as “accidentals”, “parallel key” & “switching modes” to get started.

HTH
 
I too have struggles with music theory and the circle of fifths. Last year someone on UU posted a link to a kickstarter project that was putting together chord charts for various stringed instruments, ukulele being one of them. It looked like it could help and I backed it. They arrived late last year and have been wonderful! I am a very visual learner and to actually see the chords and have them labeled as the I-IV-V, etc. made it finally click! They have them arranged by key in both major an minor keys. They are easy to transport and they show all the chords in each key. I have had a lot of fun transposing songs just because I can! lol

They are now all available on Amazon .
 
When I was 11 years old, back around 1961 , my guitar teacher pointed to the circle of fifths and told me to memorize it. Never explained it to me but wanted me to memorize it.
I've been afraid of it ever since.
 
What do you expect the Circle of Fifths to tell you ? It is merely a diagrammatic way of identifying which chords are in a certain key and how many sharps or flats are in the associated diatonic scale.

As you seem to be discovering not all music restricts itself to a certain key / diatonic scale throughout the whole piece. Google terms such as “accidentals”, “parallel key” & “switching modes” to get started.

HTH
Well, good question. I wasn't expecting anything until I was told that the circle of fifths would propel me to be all knowing. Perhaps when someone suggests that beginners learn the circle of fifths, they should point out that it is handy for transposing, but that there is a plethora of accidentals, parallel keys, and mode switching going on that will render the circle of fifths less than reliable as formula for understanding chord progression, which after all, is what most beginners are tying to understand. Just saying, it is not normally presented as a transposing tool until someone asks just what exactly it accomplishes.
 
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I suppose it’s like many things. One first needs to know the rules before understanding how to break them.

Perhaps others will disagree but IMO learning about scales, intervals and how chords are constructed is absolutely invaluable. It isn’t that difficult and without it the fret board will always be a complete mystery. It is well worth the effort.
 
I played guitar for almost 50 years, never could read music, took a few lessons the first couple of months, never heard of circle of fifths, learned by others showing me the chords of a song. I only played rhythm, rarely picked. I used 1, 4, 5 often, in E exclusively. When I started playing uke about 4 1/2 years ago, learning chords came much easier, and started playing from lead sheets like I rarely did before. Then a year into uke, I started playing bass uke, took lessons and got a better understanding of the 1, 4, 5, plus progressions.

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I heard of 'the circle of fifths', but have no idea what it is. All of that music theory stuff is over my head. I'm too old to waste my time learning it when I could be playing my uke. If I had my life to live over, I'd learn music theory as a youngster.

I know a few chords, but mostly I fingerpick. Tab is easy for me, I feel sort of like an idiot savant. I'm working through Preece's uke arrangements of Bach's cello pieces now - about to start my 4th one. Happy as a clam, knowing nothing.
 
I was starting to wonder about the circle of fifths when a friend wanted me to learn Hotel California. I had met him earlier in the summer playing at the farmer’s market, and he had invited me to join him. So with my circle of fifths taped to the back of my ukulele I joined my new friend each Saturday with the knowledge that I could figure it out, as long as I had my circle of fifths. The only problem was that I didn’t have a lot of time to consult my little circle in the middle of the songs, so I satisfied myself by muting and strumming whenever I got lost, happy to just keep the rhythm going. But then one day he suggested that I learn Hotel California, and we would play it, key of C for my benefit. On a piece of scrap paper, he wrote, Am,E7,G,D,F,C,Dm,E7. I have to say, that to this day, I’m still not sure that is the key of C, and to this day I can not make that chord progression fit into the circle. Frankly, this guy is amazing. He just seems to know how to play songs with no reference material at all. I am still trying to figure out just what formula he is using. I ask him, what formula do you use, and he just laughs, keeping it his secret.

Well, I try to explain. Think it as keys C/Am, because there is very often shared chords or that melody goes in major and relative minor. Now lets go look into circle of fifths what we have in there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

You will notice on top C/Am, left to it F/Dm and right to it G/Em. Those are the 6 basic chords of C major.
But what are the I IV and V chords of Am. They are Am Dm and E7. Notice E7 is new one and always remember that the 3rd degree of major key can in practice be like that.

Now D it does not explain as of course circle of fifths is not exactly an all powerful thing but mighty it is. Your D can be thought of as a dominant of a dominant chord. That is dominant of a G(7) if they appear in that sequence, otherwise you need some other theories, like modulations etc, but they go anyways beyond my head of knowledge.

Anyways I hope this helped your troubled mind somewhat :)
 
I wonder where Ubulele is . . . His computer is probably burnin’ up by this time.

I have a number of Circle of Fifths pages in a number of notebooks. I looked at some of them once. And scales are good to show one where the different notes are, but, then, mostly they teach one how to play scales well.

If one wants to be a whiz bang, top notch uker, then I guess Theory is important. However, I don’t know if slogging one’s way through it just to have a good time playing a few happy tunes is worth the trouble. I have a Theory book, but it rarely tells me what I wanna know—not that I can easily understand, anyway.

What I need is a book that shows me how to remember stuff that I’ve studied and learned—ahhh, well . . . :eek:ld:
 
E7 is not in the key of Am it is in the key of A major. Em7 is in the key of Am.
 
The only time it was ever useful to my study is when I first started practicing playing "resolving 7ths" - C7>F7>Bb7>Eb7>Ab7>C#7>F#7>B7>E7>A7>D7>G7>C. But even then there are a lot of other ways to figure it out that are more useful in the long run. And it's not even fifths - it's fourths.

I never teach it to any of my students unless they ask.
 
E7 is not in the key of Am it is in the key of A major. Em7 is in the key of Am.

I'm a finn Ernie, so I know. More often than not when a tune is in a minor key, the 5th degree is a major chord. That is when in a melody line some accidental can be often seen too. Of course if you refer to a relative minor scale then the 5th degree is Em.

We like to talk in here what is practical without drowning us in theory?
 
Aloha folks! Time for my two cents.
I started playing guitar when I was in fourth grade. Took lessons. Learned to read music. My teacher was probably trying to teach me some theory as well, but I was just a little kid.
I stopped playing guitar more or less by the time I was a sophomore in high school - always had a guitar around, but no more lessons, and kind of just - stopped.
Started up again after college. Then I met my wife, who is Hawaiian.
Her sisters dance hula, and there were always musicians over at her folks' house playing Hawaiian music.
It sounded simple yet fun, so I brought my guitar over there to try and learn.
They were all stunned as they had no idea I played.
Then I decided to get an ukulele, easier to carry around - and I was hooked. I found my instrument. Pretty much anything I wanted to play on guitar I could play on ukulele. Hardly ever touched my guitar again.
Then we moved to Oahu.
I decided that now that I live here, I should take some lessons and learn how to really play this thing.
That was not satisfying, so I sought out other sources of knowledge.
I have some musician friends, and have also been fortunate enough to get some tips from the likes of Kimo Hussey and Bryan Tolentino.
What blows me away is the way most people teach over here - just LISTEN. No notes, no scales, no charts.
Just LISTEN.
And like what Led Kaapana says - "Jus' press!"
What is a trip is that Kimo taught me how to play Akaka Falls chord melody style, and I did not write down or record one thing he showed me.
Crazy.
So my suggestion is that if you want a piece of paper or magic key or whatever it does not really exist.
Develop your ear, LISTEN, and practice.
What Kimo taught me most was to LISTEN.
Get those intervals wired - play any two notes, and learn to know how "far away" one note is from the other.
Most people are able to identify an octave easily with no training. Your brain already has that ability, you just need to work it a little more to get the other intervals recognizable.
When you can hear those intervals, then you can more easily figure out how to play stuff.
I have found that the songs I figure out on my own sound better and are more fun for me to play than songs I learn from a video or a tab.
You can DO it!
 
Well, I try to explain. Think it as keys C/Am, because there is very often shared chords or that melody goes in major and relative minor. Now lets go look into circle of fifths what we have in there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

You will notice on top C/Am, left to it F/Dm and right to it G/Em. Those are the 6 basic chords of C major.
But what are the I IV and V chords of Am. They are Am Dm and E7. Notice E7 is new one and always remember that the 3rd degree of major key can in practice be like that.

Now D it does not explain as of course circle of fifths is not exactly an all powerful thing but mighty it is. Your D can be thought of as a dominant of a dominant chord. That is dominant of a G(7) if they appear in that sequence, otherwise you need some other theories, like modulations etc, but they go anyways beyond my head of knowledge.

Anyways I hope this helped your troubled mind somewhat :)
You have helped my troubled mind by just commenting. Ubulele explained it to me some time ago in a similar fashion, and I see where you are going with it. My point is that handing a beginner a circle of fifths and telling them that they can figure out any song with it is misleading. There is a whole lot more to it than that, as you have illustrated so well.
 
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