Jddewitt81
Well-known member
Holy cow. When I posted this, I did not expect there to be so much debate since to me it is black an white. If you use Friends and Family to pay for goods and services, it is against the Paypal user agreement. If you violate Paypal agreement, you can get fined a minimum of $2500 USD per violation since that is what Paypal considers the minimum damage cost to them. Again, this is per violation.
It doesn't matter if you agree with the policy, or if you think this is ethical, or you think its okay to use for friends, or if you didn't bother to read the user agreement. If you use Paypal, you have legally agreed to their terms. Friends and Family can't be used for paying for goods or services, even if you are selling to your legal brother or sister.
Again, whether UU should actively police this or not is up to the moderators. All I was wondering was if there should be some message in the Ukulele Underground Forum Rules to say that friends and family is not allowed for sales of goods or services. Is UU liable for letting this go on? I am not a lawyer so I don't know. But it might be a good idea to put some language letting Paypal or whoever know that UU is not okay with violating Paypal rules.
I mean, we have a rule that says that it is prohibited to sell "any item the trading/selling of which is subject to legal regulation or control, including items such as tortoiseshell, wood, and other things covered by the CITES convention". Should UU be responsible for policing CITES violations? So, why not have a sentence that says, please don't use Friends and Family for sales of ukuleles? Or even something like, if you use paypal, remember that you have agreed to their terms. So why should we have a rules on CITES and not a rule on paypal user agreement?
I may have made a mistake posting this in the forums instead of privately messaging a moderator. But I honestly wanted people to be informed of the rules. There are too many examples of people getting fined when they were honestly selling to an actual friend, because they didn't know the rules. This isn't just for scammers. I did not want people to start accusing people of unethical behavior and people becoming insanely defensive.
So moderators, maybe we should lock or delete this post. I did not mean to cause such a rift in the forums. UU was a happy place, and I am sorry for causing such chaos. I just wanted sellers and buyers and UU to be protected.
I wonder how many transactions you have done? I’m with you though; not sure why it is such a big deal. I think there are bigger issues in the world to worry about rather than to worry about frauding a company that constantly frauds it’s users. Like I said it doesn’t matter to me; I’ve chanced my listings but potential buyers offering less on what was already my lowest price is why I started allowing some people to pay that way in the first place. For some people $20 is an awful lot or they simply only have xxx amount in their budget. It may not seem like much to some and to the ppl that mark their instruments up will not notice a difference but if you are truly trying to give ppl the best deal possible; that’s when it comes into play. I have sold some EXCEPTIONAL ukes for EXCEPTIONAL amounts simply because I wanted to pass the instrument on to someone who may not otherwise been able to afford it. (Even at typical used prices) Profit is nice at times but it’s also very rewarding sharing the find and experience too.