Advice on a ukulele with intonation issues

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These discussions are frustrating because most people suggest a single solution. Obviously check for defective strings, and if the uke is close but not close enough then a different type of string might improve things. But if you have decent strings ...

Improving intonation is a process, and not that hard to remember in terms of sequence.

1. Measure from face of nut to 12th fret, and from 12th fret to saddle peak. The second measurement should be 0-3mm more than the first. If it's not, the thing isn't made right and it's major surgery to fix. Return or abandon (or learn to rebuild!)

2. Check that the nut slots slope down towards the tuners. The string has to last touch the nut at its face - if it leaves it early, that screws up intonation. If you're not sure, put a scrap of paper under the string in the slot and see if that improves the intonation - if so, your slots don't slope right.

3. Set the nut height. Hold each string down between frets 2 and 3 and check the height of that string above the first fret. If it's greater than a single thickness of ordinary printing/writing paper then it's too high, and you won't get decent intonation. Fix this by deepening the slots, keeping the slope towards the tuners.

4. Set your desired action height, which is the distance between the top of the 12th fret and the bottom of the strings. 3mm is about the highest you can really go on a uke, 2mm around the lowest. You do this by lowering the saddle, usually sanding the bottom.

5. Compensate the bridge, if you're going that far. Plenty of instructions around so I won't describe that.

But do steps 1-4 FIRST. If they're not right, whatever you do to compensate the saddle will be wrong, and so a waste of time. 1-3 find the problem in at least 50% of cases, and take 10 minutes total to do.
:agree:

Perhaps I’ve missed the suggestion in other posts but just measure the current set-up before you do anything else. The steps above will tell you if there’s an obvious problem with the set up and more importantly they will tell you what it is. Armed with that information you can approach the shop or set to and do the work yourself.

For checking the string hieght (gap) at the 12th fret I use the shank of 2.5 and 3.0 mm drills.

Strings might be the issue but they should have come right from the seller, the seller not the buyer should address this IMHO. The only time I’ve ever had duff strings is when I bought some probable fakes from China - they come in a little see through bag with a well know manufacturers label but could be anything.

I’ve bought quite a few Ukes now and mail order shops that say all our Ukes leave properly set-up have never supplied me with one that is, that’s my experience here in the UK and YMMV. Kala is my favourite supplier and with a bit of work I’ve made their products work well for me. There are reasons why it’s impractical for a manufacturer to set each instrument up and I accept that now, again YMMV. There are reasons too why it’s impractical for a non specialist music shop to set-up an instrument and I also accept that. What I don’t accept is no one telling me that somewhere along the line that my nice new instrument will need setting up by someone, to me that’s a form of mis-selling.

This last week I was gifted a low end Kala brand Uke, it was part set-up already but it still sounded bad - perhaps my ear has become more sensitive but I just didn’t want to play it. I did some work on it, just correcting a few minor issues, and it sounded quite reasonable and very different. I chose to do more work on it after that (getting some small improvements here and there that together add up to a noticeable difference) and am very pleased with the results, Kala make good instruments but like the other mass produced makes a decent set-up is needed to allow them to sound their best.
 
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It’s not an ‘elephant in the room’ at all.

Volume production of anything at all means issues creep in, and a good dealer or reseller is part of the chain of weeding that out.

If you want that to stop and all instruments to arrive perfect from the factory, get ready for a drop in volumes and a hike in price... or stop buying brand name ukes...

Flashback 1983-84? I walk into East Coast Music Mall and pick out my very own BC Rich Warlock $550 of 1980 money before the case and extras. Imagine my confusion after paying close to $700 that I couldn't take my guitar!!! No I had to wait close to a week for their very busy luthier to setup my new purchase. It was a part of the process and being as this was a professional music store well musicians of the time knew this and those of us who were having fun simply learned how things were done. We became educated buyers through the process.

Flash forward to todays have it NOW and MY WAY "consumer" and well they simply want everything for less than the last guy they asked. They want to price things over the phone why waste time shopping. How much is a piercing or better yet how much do you think a tattoo will cost. How much is a blue mid sized car is my usual response. The idea that better things cost more and some things do not offer instant gratification is lost.

On the main topic I wonder if without the electronic tuner would your ear hear the intonation issue or do you just know they are there because your tuner tells you? A few tricks have been invented like fan frets and more recently true temperament frets for guitars to try to correct the fact that fretted instruments simply cannot attain perfect intonation down the length of all strings.

Good Luck
 
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Flash forward to todays have it NOW and MY WAY "consumer" and well they simply want everything for less than the last guy they asked. They want to price things over the phone why waste time shopping. How much is a piercing or better yet how much do you think a tattoo will cost. How much is a blue mid sized car is my usual response. The idea that better things cost more and some things do not offer instant gratification is lost.

I believe that you’re generally right but have some sympathy for the customer too. So often have I paid good money for a supposed first rate service and product only to receive much less and find the supplier / shop to be ‘trading on their reputation’ or saving their best work for select and influential customers. Why do customers now typically price everything? It’s because it’s now much easier to do that, it’s because some sellers overcharge, it’s because buyers typically have limited income and want to make the most of it and it’s because price is the only ‘yard stick’ that most of us have available to us to help us judge value.

The idea that some things cost more and some things do not offer instant gratification isn’t completely lost. There are some products that you have to go on a waiting list to buy (Morgan cars in the U.K. used to be like that and likely still is) and people are prepared to buy Ukes from several on-line US suppliers and wait for them to be set-up, they accept that there is a set-up cost too. If you want a Luthier built instrument you accept the higher cost and the wait time for a slot in their workshop - well that sales model or ‘bid’ £600 on an eBay buy it now price for the latest Uke out of the workshop.

Back to intonation. I think Prof Chris got it right.
 
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Back to intonation. I think Prof Chris got it right.

Thanks Graham. I've set up nearly 100 instruments I reckon, so I've had practice. When I build one I like it to sound as in tune as possible (accepting that perfectly in tune isn't achievable).

And most players don't understand that you have to get the nut right first. Particularly on very cheap ukes - anyone remember the old Mahalos? They played and sounded awful until you deepened the nut slots and flipped the saddle so the peak was further back, at which point they sounded and played OK and it was possible to fret a Bb chord.

Maybe 90% of the beginner ukes I've seen have the nut slots too high. Fix that and, even if the action is sky high, the instrument is usually still playable on the lower frets. Plus low position chords not only sound in better tune but are easier to fret. Once you go up the neck you need decent action at the 12th and some compensation, but to get started just fix the nut!

However, if any reader in the UK bought a Sue Ryder uke they should ignore these instructions. The fix for those is to drill them out for a light bulb and make a table lamp. I'm not convinced the frets are set to any particular pattern, and the bridge is stuck on in the wrong place. I've seen a few other brands which look like they came from the same factory, presumably one which makes ukes when the furniture production line is lying idle :)
 
Flashback 1983-84? I walk into East Coast Music Mall and pick out my very own BC Rich Warlock $550 of 1980 money before the case and extras. Imagine my confusion after paying close to $700 that I couldn't take my guitar!!! No I had to wait close to a week for their very busy luthier to setup my new purchase. It was a part of the process and being as this was a professional music store well musicians of the time knew this and those of us who were having fun simply learned how things were done. We became educated buyers through the process.

Flash forward to todays have it NOW and MY WAY "consumer" and well they simply want everything for less than the last guy they asked. They want to price things over the phone why waste time shopping. How much is a piercing or better yet how much do you think a tattoo will cost. How much is a blue mid sized car is my usual response. The idea that better things cost more and some things do not offer instant gratification is lost.

On the main topic I wonder if without the electronic tuner would your ear hear the intonation issue or do you just know they are there because your tuner tells you? A few tricks have been invented like fan frets and more recently true temperament frets for guitars to try to correct the fact that fretted instruments simply cannot attain perfect intonation down the length of all strings.

Good Luck

I can definitely hear dissonance without the electronic tuner. For example when I play the G chord. The fretted G and the open-string G don't match.
 
Thanks for the information and feedback. I plan to go the the store next week. I can close this thread unless someone wants me to comment on the store's response.
 
Thanks for the information and feedback. I plan to go the the store next week. I can close this thread unless someone wants me to comment on the store's response.

Yes please . I always like to hear how things turn out. :)
 
Thanks for the information and feedback. I plan to go the the store next week. I can close this thread unless someone wants me to comment on the store's response.

I’d be interested to hear how you get on in the store too. Sadly my experience of physical stores (in the sense that they are bricks and mortar rather than on-line), regardless of purchase, is that typically they will try to fob you off with various excuses and reasons why the problem is nothing to do with them - of course there are exceptions to that experience. When I have to complain I go armed with the receipt, a clear and demonstrable description of what’s wrong and a clear idea of what remedies from the shop would be acceptable to me - sometimes the easiest and clearest route is a refund. Expect them to argue that ‘they’re all like that’ so yours is OK, that the instruments are set-up at the factory and that any further set-up is the customer’s responsibility, some of that is arguably true and some isn’t. However, bottom line, you’ve bought an instrument believing that it’s fully functional and ready to play (which it demonstrably isn’t) and as the shop sold it as ready to use it should be fault free. Good luck.
 
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So I went back to the store and told them about the intonation issues. I reminded them that I had called earlier about it and followed their advice to get new strings. Them seemed genuinely surprised and tested each fret and string personally. It was eventually taken in the back for more tests. A while later I was told that the first 2 or 3 or so frets weren't evenly parallel with others because my fretboard was dry. As proof, a metal ruler was placed along the top of the frets and it was unable to sit flush because some of frets had moved. Ugh! So he oiled it and conditioned it and told me to let the fretboard soak it all in and the frets might go back. I purchase some oil/conditioner to continue treating it at home... and to start conditioning my other uke.
 
So I went back to the store and told them about the intonation issues. I reminded them that I had called earlier about it and followed their advice to get new strings. Them seemed genuinely surprised and tested each fret and string personally. It was eventually taken in the back for more tests. A while later I was told that the first 2 or 3 or so frets weren't evenly parallel with others because my fretboard was dry. As proof, a metal ruler was placed along the top of the frets and it was unable to sit flush because some of frets had moved. Ugh! So he oiled it and conditioned it and told me to let the fretboard soak it all in and the frets might go back. I purchase some oil/conditioner to continue treating it at home... and to start conditioning my other uke.

Unfortunately I still suspect you've been fobbed off. What you have described causes high frets and that's a different issue again. Some notes may be chocked off or buzzing but high frets won't effect intonation that much across the entire fretboard.

Please try the matchstick fix. Place a matchstick on the fretboard under the strings and up against the inside of the nut. Does it improve the intonation?

Very few of us are surprised that you re suffering from poor intonation as its a common fault that many here have experienced.
 
I've been oiling it and then I tried the matchstick. Intonation is better. In your opinion, should I avoid the brand? the store? ukes priced less than a certain amount?
 
I purchased it from a well-known ukulele dealer that many ppl on this forum recommend. I haven't mentioned the name for this very reason. I don't care whether I buy another Kala. I am more concerned about quality in build and sound.
 
If its playing better now with the matchstick in place then keep playing it. You could look at getting someone to make you a more permanent shim out of bone.

Its an industry wide issue for MANY years and buying a new budget ukulele is a crap shoot.

My advice is that now that you understand the issue better that when you buy a new ukulele take an accurate tuner with you and if the intonation is poor then don't buy it.

Its a Manufacturer fault. My issue with the shops is that they have claimed that they have exercised quality control when what they have really done is minmal.
 
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