End all Thread about Setting Action - Please Read

lancemanion

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I have spent hours reading past posts covering setting the action on ukes. I have found lots of info regarding setting the action at the 12th fret but almost no info on adjusting the nut.
Most of the info on adjusting goes something like this: fret the 3rd fret and there should be about a paper width gap over the first fret. Can someone give me a more scientific approach. What is the best process for adjusting the nut prior to adjusting the saddle?

As far as setting the action at the 12th fret I have found some greatly varying opinions on the forums (set at 12th fret):
MGM: 2.5mm to 2.75mm (.098"-.108")
hoosierhiver: 3.2mm to 3.5mm (.126"-.138")
Moore Betta Ukes: 2.3mm to 2.5 (090"-.100") roughly 3/32

I know this is a very personal thing and different folks like different setups. Comparing the ukes that feel the best to me I think I like Chuck's setup the best. What I would really like to know is what action do Aldrine, Jake and Matt Dahlberg. use. It's my goal to be able to play at this level some day (dare to dream), if anybody is close to any of these masters please share with me what action they use.

As an interesting side note, I measured the action on all my ukes and couldn't believe the difference between them. I have three Kala travel ukes (One for me and one for each of my boys) and they were all set up by MGM and they vary wildly. I also have a Kanile'a set up by Hawaii Music Supply with a MiSi installed by the factory and a Kailua set up at another Hawaiian Uke Store. Finally, I bought a couple of Les Pauls and the actions at the 12th fret are as follows:

The Travel Kalas: .070, .094 and .109
Kanile'a: .094
Kailua: .109
Les Pauls: .109 and .125

First, I was surprised that two out of three of the Kalas set up by MGM were out of his recommended settings (I am not saying anything bad about Mike, all three ukes play well and my buying experiences with MGM have always been great, just stating the facts)
Second, I had read on the forums that the Les Paul plays much better after lowering the action (some going as far as replacing the nut and saddle), but the action seems only a little high. What is the benefit of replacing the nut and saddle? I plan on just reworking the ones from the factory. I also read on the forums that some like to sand down the nuts until the top of the string is above the groove. Is there a benefit to doing this. I like to bend and am afraid the strings might pop out of the grooves.

So I plan to lower the action on the Les Pauls to .090" (unless someone can tell me what Aldrine sets his action to, while I'm at it what strings does he use) but not sure how to adjust the height of the nut before I tackle the saddle.

Final thought, does it make a difference if you are comparing the action on a Soprano, Concert or Tenor?

I know there are lots of questions throughout this post, I think a lot of us would benefit if the more experience luthiers could respond and have this info consolidated in one thread. Thanks to everyone.

LP 01.jpg
 
I really don't know what you would mean by more scientific when adjusting the nut. It's a measurement that is really so small that you would need to use feeler gauges, but by eye is what everyone that I know who builds ukes does. On guitars I have a setup using a dial gauge, and even tried it once on a uke, but it was far too much fiddling about for the same results as by eye.

For me the next question about setting up action would have to do with string choice. Are you going to use low, medium or high tension strings? I set my ukes up for medium -high tension strings. Thus 2.0mm for high tension strings and 2.2 for medium tension. If I try and put a set of say Wurth Browns on one of my tenors that had some D'Addario J71's then they buzz and slap the frets like mad.

And a final thought on action at the 12th fret. Do you really think that you are going to be able to tell the difference closing your eyes and playing an instrument that is set up with action at 2.2mm as compared to 2.5mm? I guess that there might be a few people, but you have to ask yourself if you'd be one of them? What happens when the humidity changes and the top either raises or sinks? Do you rush over to the set up bench and adjust the action?

You might live in a place that has a perfect 40% RH all year round, but that certainly isn't the case here.

My advice is to get the action at the nut so you can just slip a fine piece of paper under the string when fretted at the third. Get it in the range of 2.0mm - 2.8mm at the 12th and then play it instead of worrying over the numbers.
 
Sounds like you're over-thinking things.

the technical term for the height above the first fret when freting at the third is a "gnats hair".

Next comes the action at the 12th. I aim for .09-.10. Action will change depending on relative humidity, so a travelling musician has to deal with things moving around. When it gets a bit tropical the action increases. I've seen Dhalberg playing here in Cairns, judging by the rain it was quite tropical. He didn't seem to have much trouble playing. I suspect there's more to his playing than the action of his uke.
 
I have been using Aquilas on my ukes. I am not sure how they compare tension wise. Honestly I can hardly tell the difference when playing the high action Kala and the low action Kala (though the low action does feel a little nicer) but it is in my nature to try to do things right. I just want to get all the facts before I start working on the new Les Pauls.

Allen, since you brought up string tension, the reason we got two Les Pauls is because I am putting a low G Aquila set on one. Do you set the action different a low G?

As far as the action at the nut, do you ever measure the action at the first fret unfretted or do you always hold down the third fret and then aim for the paper width at the first fret?

Thank you for your responses, really appreciate it.
 
Nut height measurement is done the way it is in order to take the variable of saddle height out of the equation.Then when the nut is right you move onto the saddle (then back and forth to fine tune). I set the action at the 12th the same for a low G. The measurement is from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. Nut slot may have to be wider for a low G.
 
Depends on the player's style (strumming thrashing or picking or whatever)..some like e'm low action some like e'm high action...I remember a great pro' guitarist some years ago that I worked with, called "Arthur Guitar" his action was so high like 1/2" at the octave and the string gauge was like railway lines..and only he could play it..but boy! could he play it :)
I loved his version of "El Cumbancheros" :D
 
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Re: action at the nut. I usually use Worth, D'Addario or Savarez strings these days which are fairly high tension. (I consider Aquilas to be somewhat lower tension.) With these strings, when the string is fretted behind the third fret I will set action at the nut so that the E and A strings actually just barely rest on the first fret. I will set the C and low G strings so that there is a "gnats hair" spacing. The wider diameter strings swing in a bigger arc and need a tad more clearance.
Ken is right, low action isn't always desirable. Depends on many things including the player's style, the desired sound (volume may change depending on saddle height/string break angle), etc. Many beginners will want action set as low as possible to make up for lack of skill often to the detriment of other things.
 
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"Gnat's hair" must be a US measurement..in the UK we use "Gnats cocks" as our standard :)

You guys aren't as uptight as Americans.
 
Measurement smeasurement. When I'm setting up an instrument I adjust the nut slots until the strings do not pull sharp at all at the first fret (using a good meter, not a $5 clip-on). If that can't be achieved without buzzing or an extremely high action at the 12th fret then it means I have to level and crown the frets - that sucks. So far I haven't had to go there on ukes, but most guitars I've set up I had to level and crown the frets - even pretty good guitars.

But, assuming that your frets are level the goal is basically to get good intonation at the first couple of frets. It's pretty much impossible to achieve that without also ending up with a very comfortable, low action at the nut end, so I never fool with measurements. I just work each slot down until the string stops pulling sharp.

There is a lot more leeway at the bridge saddle end. I like a pretty low action especially for strumming but it's not as essential. The action at the bridge has to be really, really, high before it has much affect on intonation. Some of my ukes are so low at the twelfth fret that my thumbnail hits the edges of the fretboard and rounds them (the edges of the fretboard) off a little. :) Other ukes have a little more daylight under the strings.

John
 
I'm just getting my feet wet with ukes, but I can't believe they're so different than other stringed instruments. I always level and dress the frets. I always use feeler gauges to set the action at the nut and 12th fret. I don't get the "fret at the third fret and slide in a piece of paper" thing. The action at the saddle has to be set first. If the action at the nut is set perfectly and then the saddle is lowered, the action at the nut will be too low and will buzz on the 1st fret. Nylon/whatever strings are way more accomodating than steel, and gross differences in action aren't that perceptible to the player, but that's no reason to get lazy as luthiers.
 
I'm just getting my feet wet with ukes, but I can't believe they're so different than other stringed instruments. I always level and dress the frets. I always use feeler gauges to set the action at the nut and 12th fret. I don't get the "fret at the third fret and slide in a piece of paper" thing. The action at the saddle has to be set first. If the action at the nut is set perfectly and then the saddle is lowered, the action at the nut will be too low and will buzz on the 1st fret. Nylon/whatever strings are way more accomodating than steel, and gross differences in action aren't that perceptible to the player, but that's no reason to get lazy as luthiers.

You're right John, the height at one end will affect the height at the other. I adjust at the nut first to get it very close to what I want. If anything it'll be just a little bit higher than what it'll finally be. Then I'll set my straight edge into the C slot (the widest one) let it rest on a .090" shim that's sitting on the 12th fret and mark the height on the saddle. Then I adjust the saddle to exactly that height. Bring the uke up to pitch and and hang it for 24 hours to let the strings stretch. Then I'll go back to the nut and make any final adjustments. If I try to adjust the action immediately I find that things are subject to change until the strings get comfortable.
 
In the 'States, that measurement is an RCH...a Red C... Hair. You may fill in the missing letters as you like.
 
"Gnat's hair" must be a US measurement..in the UK we use "Gnats cocks" as our standard :)

In the US, do you use a fully grown gnat, or is a young gnat acceptable? In the UK, do you have to get the gnat excited first to have an accurate measurement?
 
In the States, that measurement has nothing to do with tiny insects. Women probably would object, but that's just the way men are.
 
Chuck, I don't think we're far apart on this at all. I'll bow to your longer experience with ukes. I've been a steel string guy for decades.
 
Chuck, I don't think we're far apart on this at all. I'll bow to your longer experience with ukes. I've been a steel string guy for decades.

I do think we're talking about the same thing John. Ideally, both nut and saddle would be adjusted at the same time. In lieu of that, it's just a matter of going back and forth.
 
What am I missing here? Why wouldn't the nut be exactly the same height as a fret? Isn't it acting as a fret? And wouldn't a zero fret eliminate the problem on the nut end of the equation? I know it'd be a PITA to retrofit a zero fret, but wouldn't it make sense to incorporate it into new builds, especially cheap production instruments?
 
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