Reading standard notation

mds725 said:

I'm the same way. I was a clarinet player from third grade through college, and I can probably still translate standard notation notes into clarinet finger positions but I can't do that for ukulele. My thought is to learn the fretboard so that when I see a note on sheet music, I can train by brain to find that note quickly on the fretboard. For this purpose, I bought Fretboard Roadmaps for Ukulele, and I also ordered these two free pdf minibooks from Curt Sheller's website on learning the fingerboard for both C and G tuning.

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Yup, same exact boat with the same clarinet family and a mellophone (badly) in the mix, and voice, and my last paying clarinet gig was like a week after college, and that was it, from 3rd grade to just out of college. It's amazing. If there are places for the fingers to go, no problem remembering what note is made how. But a fretboard? Forget it.

And there's the sinking feeling that after getting those method books, it's like "Oh hey I can sight-read this, oh wait, it's in D, so either transpose or feel stupid." And you go right back to feeling like you're in 3rd grade all over again.

Absolutely agree on that. It just makes sense with a french horn, or trumpet or baritone in my hand. Heck, even the cello made perfect sense. I don't know why I go stupid as soon as I grab my guitar or uke though. Like you said, reading the page is cake. Putting those notes on the fretboard? yeeeeeeeaaaah.... >.<

Plainsong said:

Yup, same exact boat with the same clarinet family and a mellophone (badly) in the mix, and voice, and my last paying clarinet gig was like a week after college, and that was it, from 3rd grade to just out of college. It's amazing. If there are places for the fingers to go, no problem remembering what note is made how. But a fretboard? Forget it.

And there's the sinking feeling that after getting those method books, it's like "Oh hey I can sight-read this, oh wait, it's in D, so either transpose or feel stupid." And you go right back to feeling like you're in 3rd grade all over again.

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RuckMonkey said:

Absolutely agree on that. It just makes sense with a french horn, or trumpet or baritone in my hand. Heck, even the cello made perfect sense. I don't know why I go stupid as soon as I grab my guitar or uke though. Like you said, reading the page is cake. Putting those notes on the fretboard? yeeeeeeeaaaah.... >.<

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And then there's the explaining "No no, I can read music... just not on the instrument I actually play." At least I picked up sight singing, but still, it's nice to let the fingers do the walking.

Jcollazo said:

I was just reading a post in the Beginner Section about someone wanting to find classical music for the ukulele. This got me thinking about how many people will pick up an instrument, even play it well, but not be able to read music. There's such an abundance of written music out there that for someone wanting to get in deep with their instrument, learning standard notation should be a necessity.

Opinions?

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I can't read standard notation to save my life, and it's not for lack of trying--I started taking formal music lessons when I was six, stopped when I was fifteen, and in between had several different music teachers, all of whom tried to teach me to read music, and I just...can't! No matter what I do or what I try or what approach my teachers took, standard notation still looks like russian to me. I used to struggle through a piece once or twice until I memorized it, then play from memory while pretending I was reading the music. I thought this was a serious detriment to musicality, until I started taking singing lessons. My new teacher here in Germany asked me the first day if I could read music, and when I told him to do everything by ear, he said "You know, sometimes that's better." He was probably just being nice, but it's nice not to feel like a musical failure just because standard notation is lost to me!

I'll just chime in, being the original poster... I find the ukulele to be an instrument that one can become a proficient strummer in very little time. And it is fun to play!!! From that standpoint, I don't think the majority of ukesters really need to learn standard notation.


But there will be a small minority that want to dig deeper into music and the instrument of their choice. For them, standard notation may be the only way they can continue.


Here's a short and true story... I have a buddy who leads a worship band in a local church. He has a policy of letting younger players sit in, if they can read the music or lead sheets (words and chords for the guitarists and bassists). Every few months he gets a kid who is phenomenal on guitar.... but asks, "what is this C and this Dm thing"? I know that's never happened with a ukulele player


My feeling... If we want to strum along, have fun, play on the beach, parties or even record our own tunes, standard notation is not necessary. If we want obscure music from the 1700s... well, I don't know anyone who would want that, but if you did, standard notation better be in your tool box.

Plainsong said:

And then there's the explaining "No no, I can read music... just not on the instrument I actually play."

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As a classically trained musician, I can read standard notation quite well, at least on the guitar. But when I took up uke I had a hard time wrapping my head around the different tuning (since the notes aren't in the same places), so I basically learned uke by tab. Ironic, since I had previously dismissed it as somehow being beneath me.

I can read standard notation on uke just fine if I'd doing it like guitar and realize I'm actually playing in a different key.

But since I can read music, I much appreciate when the tabs are alongside standard notation. Some tabs indicate note duration, which is very helpful.

What I really don't like is text-only tabs that give you no clue to duration where you have to basically know the song to be able to use the tab.

It's really useful for sight reading with a group, and I love being able to "hear" what a piece will sound like before playing it just by looking at the sheet music. I've played with lots of great guitarists who can't read a note and have no interest in it, they just spend more time preparing, learning by ear, and improvising. They have very fulfilling musical careers (professional and avocational) and aren't too concerned with reading.

In terms of method books, when I started with the uke I pulled out my paul deville universal method for saxophone and worked through it-all the scales, arpeggios, in every key. Also used 1st and 4th string alternates. Did the trick! A bit dull at times, though!

Check out the "Ukulele In The Classroom" series of three books by James Hill & Chalmers Doane - all notation.

lkdumas said:

Check out the "Ukulele In The Classroom" series of three books by James Hill & Chalmers Doane - all notation.

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Thanks!

luluwrites said:

I studied French for years and can still only ask where the beach is. I have the same problem reading music. Always I find myself counting up the staff, Every Good Boy Does Fine-ing and then immediately forgetting what I'm supposed to have been figuring out.

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Yup. Standard notation is like any other language. You can study the nuts and bolts all day long, but in the end, to achieve fluency, you've got to just roll up your sleeves and do it. Lots of it. For a good amount of time.

So the best way to get good at speaking French is to speak it, and the way to get good at reading music is to read it. And it can be a sloooow slog.

I used to be pretty terrible at reading music, to be honest. But the more I did it, the better I got. (Le Francais est la meme chose...)

JJ

Plainsong said:

Welp, looked up Curt Sheller, didn't find much, just the usual chords, strums, and jazz books.

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Hey Plainsong I just looked at the larger photo of your koaloha Concert, That's simplistic beauty right there, me want !

webby said:

Hey Plainsong I just looked at the larger photo of your koaloha Concert, That's simplistic beauty right there, me want !

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It is a wonderful little uke. My only wish is that I could lower the action at the saddle just a tiny tiny bit. It's still playable of course. I wouldn't have left it so long if it wasn't, just a personal preference. Sadly, the saddle is stuck in like it's glued, so action can't be lowered. But otherwise, I play the hell out of it. It really sounds like a uke should.

This is my next big theory project. I never had any real theory, just the rudimentary bits i picked up on my own in high school choir. I have fretboard roadmaps, and Roy Smeck's D method book so I can start learning the notes on the board -- I know there are a couple of iphone apps that quiz you on this stuff, so once I get comfortable with reading notation by sight and seeing it on the board in my head, then I'll start quizzing myself on the apps.

Of course I'll also have to find time to just have fun and play!

As a flutist of over 30 years, I can sight-read relatively well on that instrument. Over the years, I have learned some strumming on the guitar out of books that tended to have standard Grand Staff notation as well, and have often able to pick out some embellishments beyond the chords from that. I never tried to learn to read tabs. More recently, I took some classical guitar classes and piano classes when I returned to college, and they were likewise taught in standard notation. I wish now that I had kept up with those; I may get back to them soon.

Personally, I found my limited ability to associate the notes on the page to the guitar to be helpful, but at the same time, not being able to truly "read" for the guitar was extremely limiting, and at times, frustrating. If I am going to learn the uke for anything beyond playing in my living room, I want to be able to access resources in standard notation; as noted by others, it will make communicating with other musicians much easier if we all speak the same language.

mattydee said:

This is my next big theory project. I never had any real theory, just the rudimentary bits i picked up on my own in high school choir. I have fretboard roadmaps, and Roy Smeck's D method book so I can start learning the notes on the board -- I know there are a couple of iphone apps that quiz you on this stuff, so once I get comfortable with reading notation by sight and seeing it on the board in my head, then I'll start quizzing myself on the apps.

Of course I'll also have to find time to just have fun and play!

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Oh I wish you had my old HS choir director. You couldn't even get into the main choir unless you could sight sing, but before getting to that point, he was very good at teaching you how to do that. Find the key of the song (hoping it's not atonal), assign solfage to the notes, look at some of the intervals between the notes in the song, and vocalize those so that you can better hear them... then start on the tonic and you're off to the races.

It was a big mystery to me before joining the choir, how you actually sight sing. I was used to sight reading when you're holding an instrument and can just play the notes. I was filled with dread at the prospect, but that's how he taught us to do it! It was a life-saver in college, for the ear training part of theory, and made practicing my rep easier.

I mention it since you said you were in a choir, that method might feel more approachable for you.

Ukulele JJ said:

Yup. Standard notation is like any other language. You can study the nuts and bolts all day long, but in the end, to achieve fluency, you've got to just roll up your sleeves and do it. Lots of it. For a good amount of time.

So the best way to get good at speaking French is to speak it, and the way to get good at reading music is to read it. And it can be a sloooow slog.

I used to be pretty terrible at reading music, to be honest. But the more I did it, the better I got. (Le Francais est la meme chose...)

JJ

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That's it! Immersion! All I gotta do is move to Paris and buy me a Black Bear and it'll all come together!

Okay. I know a purchase won't make me magically able to read music, but I can pretend while I save my pennies, right?

Hal Leonard has two ukulele method books written by Lil Rev that teaches reading music with the ukulele. I was just working in volume one last night.

I'll second the James Hill/Chalmers Doane book, Ukulele in the Classroom. If you want to use this on your own, you should probably pick up the Teacher's Edition. Neither the student nor the teacher edition are set up for self-study, but they are better than nothing.


I've got lots of experience reading music as a choral and solo singer, trumpet player and pianist. However, when I'm playing uke, I usually use TABs. I think that the main reason for this is that idiosyncratic high g string. Because of this re-entrant string arrangement, it is often difficult to decide which finger/string combo to use to play each note.
When singing, playing piano or playing brass instruments (except double horns), there is really only one fingering or note to play to produce the required pitch, i.e. if you need to play an A above middle C: on piano, you just play the A key to the right of middle C; when singing, you just sing and hope you've got the right pitch; on trumpet (in C) you just press valves 1 and 2 and blow just the right amount...but trying to play that same A on uke, should you play the A string open, G string second fret, E string fifth fret or C string 9th fret? It all depends on context and planning for ease of fingering.


So, I think learning to read to play from standard notation as a ukulele player is not vitally important. Learning to read music will open up doors and areas of music making that are simply inaccessible to non-music-reading players.

Season said:

Hal Leonard has two ukulele method books written by Lil Rev that teaches reading music with the ukulele. I was just working in volume one last night.

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That's the book I was wondering about! Thanks!

Sounds like learning to site read for vocals would be a good system.

I learned notation for classical guitar, and a little piano, but usually depend on tabs for ukulele and banjo. It is very difficult for me to move between similar instruments (guitar/ banjo/ uke) and try and apply the musical notation variations for each tuning. Since ukuleles are commonly tuned to either C or D, it makes it even more complicated. Tabs just make more sense for me, and it prevents headaches and allows me to concentrate on other skills. If I was only going to play one stringed instrument, and only use one tuning, it might make sense to learn musical notation.

–Lori