Kamaka VS Collings - not fair - different planet

try ordering a HF3 special from Tekla at the Kamaka factory they make these a little bit different then the other production ukes....that is what i did..it is perfect sound/construction

^^^This. Kamaka "special" custom orders are made separate from the other stock Kamaka ukes. Fit and finish on mine are perfect and to me, sounds amazing. Tekla is great to correspond with.

That's the thing about sound. What may ring sweet to one person's ear might be different to someone else. The great thing is we all have choices with so many great brands and luthiers out there. There's a uke out there for everyone. :)
 
Seems fairly simple to me. You can pay around $1000 for a Kamaka, or you can kick in $1500 more and buy a Collings. You should expect $1500 extra manhours/materials/finish on the Collings because you are paying for it. That does not seem to be such a big revelation or even contentious to me. Sorry if I don't have the prices exactly correct.
When you have your next beauty parade at the club and the kamaka owners line up against the Collings owners for the regular spat, you could have a blind play off and get the dolphin owners to judge if the Collings owners got the extra $1500 value for their money.

Well, you would be about half right if you're talking Koa - I think the lowest price Koa Collings tenor might be had for a little under 2K, which is $600 to $800 more than the basic hf3 (which is far less than twice the price - the Kamaka BTW is more than twice the price of a Pono AT - but then the labor there is Chinese, so....). However you could actually save about $100 by buying a Collings UT1 as opposed to a Kamaka. The UT1 is mahogany, but is similar to the Kamaka in that it has no body binding or any other cosmetic appointments. I would have to guess that the UT1 also has more labor in it than an HF3 and it costs less - I suppose the Koa costs more than the Mahogany. The UT1 I played has fantastic sound, fit and finish and the peghed tuners alone probably cost three or four times as much as the tuners on the Kamaka. Trick with the UT1 is finding one. There are a few around right now - Collings must have just shipped a batch.
 
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I have(still) owned 3 kamakas, 1 concert and 1 tenor in production model, and the last one is custom long neck concert. I bought the tenor as the second good quality uke without seeing nor playing it first. There is no problem at all, and I still love playing it. As my concert(HF-2) I went to Gryphon strings and had a chance to compare two ukes side by side then picked one up. That is why I choose the one I have. I also had a chance to play a Collings concert uke in Gryphon strings, it was actually good and worth every money you spend on it. But, just not my favorite. I think it is a personal preference, and not a comparison to ditch which brand is "better" or "in a different planent". Often we see these comparison posts popped up here in a regular basis, but those description (who is the best! brand A is way better than brand B??) all look silly to me.

Price-wise: Collings concert uke UC-1K is listed as $1450 MSRP but you can get it around 1300. Kamaka HF-2 MSRP$1045 but ofen sell as ~$1000. That is about 300 dollars difference at user side. UC-2 Koa is over 2k though.
In the Tenor model, Collings sells Mahogany for first two levels (UT1/UT2) and the price is already over 1700. Kamaka HF-3 is listed as $1245 but usually sell in 1100-1200 range. Collings does have Koa tenor but... the UT3-K is way over 2k or even 2.5k bucket range. Not to mention they have some artistic addons which put extra money into the bill too, like doghair finish / haircut headstock.

Choose what you like, love it and discovery the "personality" of the uke. Yes, I do believe that every uke is different and has its own personality, like a child.

I have no experience of owning a Collings uke, so I won't actually put my comments on how they build, play or sound like. Because I don't count a 30 minutes playing in the music store would give me accurate information to judge a high quality instrument.
 
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Seems fairly simple to me. You can pay around $1000 for a Kamaka, or you can kick in $1500 more and buy a Collings. You should expect $1500 extra manhours/materials/finish on the Collings because you are paying for it. That does not seem to be such a big revelation or even contentious to me. Sorry if I don't have the prices exactly correct.
When you have your next beauty parade at the club and the kamaka owners line up against the Collings owners for the regular spat, you could have a blind play off and get the dolphin owners to judge if the Collings owners got the extra $1500 value for their money.

sorry Bill but your price differentials are WAAAAY off. The difference is nowhere near how you have portrayed it. Of the two standard koa tenor models, prices are these, both with a hardshell case

Collings UT1K tenor = 1305
Kamaka HF3 tenor = 1245

So your 1500 dollar gap is actually only a 60 dollar one, quite a difference!

edit: Collings priced at Acoustic Music Works; Kamaka at Elderly Instruments.
 
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Well, you would be about half right if you're talking Koa - I think the lowest price Koa Collings tenor might be had for a little under 2K, which is $600 to $800 more than the basic hf3 (which is far less than twice the price - the Kamaka BTW is more than twice the price of a Pono AT - but then the labor there is Chinese, so....). However you could actually save about $100 by buying a Collings UT1 as opposed to a Kamaka. The UT1 is mahogany, but is similar to the Kamaka in that it has no body binding or any other cosmetic appointments. I would have to guess that the UT1 also has more labor in it than an HF3 and it costs less - I suppose the Koa costs more than the Mahogany. The UT1 I played has fantastic sound, fit and finish and the peghed tuners alone probably cost three or four times as much as the tuners on the Kamaka. Trick with the UT1 is finding one. There are a few around right now - Collings must have just shipped a batch.

You are simplifying various factors too much, Pono AT is built in Asia and then ship back to Hawaii for final examination by ko'olau luthiers. The wood option and finish of Pono AT are all different from Kamaka. Those are big factors of price structure. For a similar level of Kamaka HF-3, maybe you should start looking at Ko'Olau model 1 or so.

Also as I said previously the wood of Collings UT-1 and UT-2 are Mahogany not Koa. The price difference is not just about labor, and also how the maker streamline their production and source materials every day. If you have a huge selection of wood in the stock, and you buy them in large volume you'll get a better deal overall. Collings, unlike Kamaka, they make more guitars than ukuleles. I am sure they have a stronger logistics/material support too. Maybe this is the hidden factor.
 
sorry Bill but your price differentials are WAAAAY off. The difference is nowhere near how you have portrayed it. Of the two standard koa tenor models, prices are these, both with a hardshell case

Collings UT1K tenor = 1305
Kamaka HF3 tenor = 1245

edit: Collings priced at Acoustic Music Works; Kamaka at Elderly Instruments.

Eugene is faster! Actually I sent emails to Acoustic music works and inquiried about the UT-1K last week or so, they said due to huge backlog Collings will stop taking order until they catch up, and the koa model is quite popular but I didn't get the price information. Thanks for sending the correction though. :)
 
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When you have your next beauty parade at the club and the kamaka owners line up against the Collings owners for the regular spat, you could have a blind play off and get the dolphin owners to judge if the Collings owners got the extra $1500 value for their money.

aaaah, such bold cynicism mate. What a grand idea though...I would love to go to a ukulele beauty pageant...

...but only if eugenie was modelling them he he :love:
 
I just got a Collings UC-1. I also have a '70s Kamaka concert. They sound different, but both sound wonderful. I think there is more than one great sound and it comes down to the individual instrument and your individual taste.
 
You are simplifying various factors too much, Pono AT is built in Asia and then ship back to Hawaii for final examination by ko'olau luthiers. The wood option and finish of Pono AT are all different from Kamaka. Those are big factors of price structure. For a similar level of Kamaka HF-3, maybe you should start looking at Ko'Olau model 1 or so.

Also as I said previously the wood of Collings UT-1 and UT-2 are Mahogany not Koa. The price difference is not just about labor, and also how the maker streamline their production and source materials every day. If you have a huge selection of wood in the stock, and you buy them in large volume you'll get a better deal overall. Collings, unlike Kamaka, they make more guitars than ukuleles. I am sure they have a stronger logistics/material support too. Maybe this is the hidden factor.

Kamaka has a pretty well established system going for them - nearly 100 years - original family is still running things - and they store their own wood (and they have the best access possible for Koa) for four + years and they keep it simple, focusing on a limited line of standard instruments. These are the reasons I was interested in owning one.
 
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Interesting discussion. But you can debate Kamaka vs. Collings till the cows come home, at which time you can have both a UT1-K and an HF-4 if you pry them from my dead, cold hands. :) (Apologies to the NRA, of course. :rolleyes:) They are very different but both very good.
 
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I have played many of both brands and love both. I worked for a long time to get dealership with Collings Guitars almost eight years ago. They're my favorite factory guitars. Had a C10 for a few years and am a big fan to say the least. Bill Collings is a genius in my book. He was a machinist and that's the stand point he approaches it. I sprayed all the laquer for Ko'olau for many years and I can truly appreciate the level fit and finish that Collings comes with. Even Bob Taylor said that Bill was the best guitar maker. His mandolins, archtops, electrics, ... phenomenal!

You know what though, Both Collings, and Kamaka are very consistent, IMHO of course. A lot of commentors would argue that, but both extensively use computer aided technology for thickness, brace shapes, etc to be exact and I hear consistency. The Collings is built lighter, while the Kamaka is a bit more solid. I owned a UT-1 for a bit, but it started getting a belly and the neck even started going beyond what you can call relief. This was after 6 months with Koolau Golds and somewhat humid weather. Collings, like a number of builder's, go for resonance and many base their calculations on the tension of Aquila strings or the lighter Worth strings. If you don't prefer those strings, you have to consider the nature of what you have and what it can handle. Martin will void the warranty on your guitar if you use heavy gauge strings and on certain models even medium gauge. . The point is to be aware. Collings and a number of other makers out there are building for ultimate tone right off the bat and it can be absolutely glorious, it's undeniable. But those in the market need to know that their instruments may have been built to handle a certain tension. Or, at least that's what I've experienced. Ask the manufacturer.

Kamaka's typically will have slightly less volume than a Collings, but have excellent balance and a sweet voice. Ya, they have the open pore gloss finish that no guitar maker could get away with, but with Hawaiian uke makers this has been the traditional look for the last 100 years. I'm not the snob I was in my younger years about such things. Every time I pick up a Kamaka of any size I just want to jam, take it home even! They're excellent ukes to play! And...I can put golds and most other high tension strings on any Kamaka model for it's entire lifetime and it will handle. I can't speak for all Collings, but mine was not diggin my string choice. So ya, just be aware of these things. At the end of the day I'll have fun with whatever I grab. my kids u900, Just a beer and a little laminate uke made in china, woot woot!
 
Having owned or still own three Collings and two Kamakas, I would have to agree with the original premise that the OP started this thread for. Collings ukes GENERALLY have a better build quality than Kamaka regarding fit and finish on their "stock" ukes. But like all brands of ukuleles, the sound of even the same model of uke from the same manufacurer can and will vary greatly. And in the end, the sound of a ukulele is the most important factor.
 
I have played many of both brands and love both. I worked for a long time to get dealership with Collings Guitars almost eight years ago. They're my favorite factory guitars. Had a C10 for a few years and am a big fan to say the least. Bill Collings is a genius in my book. He was a machinist and that's the stand point he approaches it. I sprayed all the laquer for Ko'olau for many years and I can truly appreciate the level fit and finish that Collings comes with. Even Bob Taylor said that Bill was the best guitar maker. His mandolins, archtops, electrics, ... phenomenal!

You know what though, Both Collings, and Kamaka are very consistent, IMHO of course. A lot of commentors would argue that, but both extensively use computer aided technology for thickness, brace shapes, etc to be exact and I hear consistency. The Collings is built lighter, while the Kamaka is a bit more solid. I owned a UT-1 for a bit, but it started getting a belly and the neck even started going beyond what you can call relief. This was after 6 months with Koolau Golds and somewhat humid weather. Collings, like a number of builder's, go for resonance and many base their calculations on the tension of Aquila strings or the lighter Worth strings. If you don't prefer those strings, you have to consider the nature of what you have and what it can handle. Martin will void the warranty on your guitar if you use heavy gauge strings and on certain models even medium gauge. . The point is to be aware. Collings and a number of other makers out there are building for ultimate tone right off the bat and it can be absolutely glorious, it's undeniable. But those in the market need to know that their instruments may have been built to handle a certain tension. Or, at least that's what I've experienced. Ask the manufacturer.

Kamaka's typically will have slightly less volume than a Collings, but have excellent balance and a sweet voice. Ya, they have the open pore gloss finish that no guitar maker could get away with, but with Hawaiian uke makers this has been the traditional look for the last 100 years. I'm not the snob I was in my younger years about such things. Every time I pick up a Kamaka of any size I just want to jam, take it home even! They're excellent ukes to play! And...I can put golds and most other high tension strings on any Kamaka model for it's entire lifetime and it will handle. I can't speak for all Collings, but mine was not diggin my string choice. So ya, just be aware of these things. At the end of the day I'll have fun with whatever I grab. my kids u900, Just a beer and a little laminate uke made in china, woot woot!

Gotta agree with a lot of what Andrew has said. I too have tried getting a Collings dealership, since about 2007. Bill Collings is one of the great guitar builders of our times.

But as Andrew said, Collings and Kamaka use a lot of CNC machines, so you can't really say one is more consistant than the other, the main ingredients are built by a machine. The only way a comparison of consistency could come in would be when you look at the two companies Customs. The ones that are built by humans, braces shaped with a chisel or finger plane, tops and backs hand graduated, tap tuning, necks shaped by hand, etc. This is where you could do a comparison...BUT, even still, you're talking to different sounds. What Bill is going to want to make in an ukulele and what the Kamaka's are going to make are going after two different sounds.

I've been (as many know here) interested in a Collings Tenor for awhile, but can't nail myself down to get one yet. I think they still have a little ways to go to where I'd be comfortable buying one, they're too new and building them, and I know Bill will continue to tweak them until he is 100% happy. I've heard many things like Andrew pointed out, so I'm being patient for now.

I've been playing ukulele for 13 years now. In my experience, you can find something to love about any ukulele :)
 
Thanks to everyone for conducting this discussion in such a cool way.

In some ways I almost expect Collings fit and finish on any instrument to better the quality of most competitors, whether it's an 'ukulele, a guitar or a mandolin. I have never owned a Collings instrument, but I've played a couple of their mandolins and a guitar. They were uniformly, and scarily, immaculate. I have heard mandolin players say that Collings mandos are so consistent and uniform that they are almost boring and lacking in individuality. The quality is widely recognised as being way up there.

I think Collings is a bigger operation, and certainly I would guess that pretty much anything that can be CNC rather than hand carved is probably done that way. Personally I don't consider that a bad thing. Computers and machinery can produce more consistent and accurate work than many humans can - especially when business pressures mean that speed of production is important.

Handmade/traditional is great. Good luthiers put their heart, soul, experience and imagination into creating beautiful instruments that have real individuality and which sometimes seem to have inherited a soul from their maker. But perhaps traditional approaches may not always clone perfection as reliably as a CNC workshop. Many purchasers probably wouldn't want them to.

There is room for all kinds of instruments and all kinds of approaches to their production.

I'd dearly love to own one of either of the brands under discussion, but in the real world all my guitars, mandolins and 'ukuleles are low-priced instruments made in China. Even so, I have identified brands that seem to source consistent, decent quality instruments. I'm under no illusions; I know very well that most budget brands get their stuff from the same handful of factories and simply brand them, but some of these things work fine for me.

I have plenty of time for any brand, at any level or price point that does the best it can for its customers. Kamaka and Collings each have plenty of fans. To me that says that they are both doing some fine work. We will each have our preference, and that is cool.
 
As far as strings on a Collings uke, I do not like the Aquilas. I tried Worth strings and they sounded much better. Then I tried Fremont strings and they sounded as good as the Worth strings but a little fuller sounding. I have left the Fremont strings on my Collings uke and am happy with the sound.
 
For me, Kamaka and Collings ukes are on the same planet: the planet of great-sounding ukuleles. (Other ukes I have met on the planet include vintage Martin ukes, vintage Kumalae ukes, Brad Donaldson ukes, a KoAloha pineapple, and a Chuck Moore tenor---living in Portland, I don't get to explore this planet too often.) Finish details don't make much impression on me unless they affect sound or playability.

A guitar shop in Portland (closed since the owner's recent retirement) carried Collings ukes. Stopping by that shop to play those ukes was one of my weekly pleasures---Collings' mahogany concert ukes are the best sounding/feeling new ukes I've come across. I'm still sad that that shop closed.

I own a Kamaka HF-1 (built in 2004, bought barely-used in 2011) that I absolutely love. There is certainly evidence that my HF-1 was built by people (yep, a couple "finish flaws"). The main evidence, however, is that the uke sounds absolutely wonderful and is a joy to hold and play.
 
I have played many of both brands and love both. I worked for a long time to get dealership with Collings Guitars almost eight years ago. They're my favorite factory guitars. Had a C10 for a few years and am a big fan to say the least. Bill Collings is a genius in my book. He was a machinist and that's the stand point he approaches it. I sprayed all the laquer for Ko'olau for many years and I can truly appreciate the level fit and finish that Collings comes with. Even Bob Taylor said that Bill was the best guitar maker. His mandolins, archtops, electrics, ... phenomenal!

You know what though, Both Collings, and Kamaka are very consistent, IMHO of course. A lot of commentors would argue that, but both extensively use computer aided technology for thickness, brace shapes, etc to be exact and I hear consistency. The Collings is built lighter, while the Kamaka is a bit more solid. I owned a UT-1 for a bit, but it started getting a belly and the neck even started going beyond what you can call relief. This was after 6 months with Koolau Golds and somewhat humid weather. Collings, like a number of builder's, go for resonance and many base their calculations on the tension of Aquila strings or the lighter Worth strings. If you don't prefer those strings, you have to consider the nature of what you have and what it can handle. Martin will void the warranty on your guitar if you use heavy gauge strings and on certain models even medium gauge. . The point is to be aware. Collings and a number of other makers out there are building for ultimate tone right off the bat and it can be absolutely glorious, it's undeniable. But those in the market need to know that their instruments may have been built to handle a certain tension. Or, at least that's what I've experienced. Ask the manufacturer.

Kamaka's typically will have slightly less volume than a Collings, but have excellent balance and a sweet voice. Ya, they have the open pore gloss finish that no guitar maker could get away with, but with Hawaiian uke makers this has been the traditional look for the last 100 years. I'm not the snob I was in my younger years about such things. Every time I pick up a Kamaka of any size I just want to jam, take it home even! They're excellent ukes to play! And...I can put golds and most other high tension strings on any Kamaka model for it's entire lifetime and it will handle. I can't speak for all Collings, but mine was not diggin my string choice. So ya, just be aware of these things. At the end of the day I'll have fun with whatever I grab. my kids u900, Just a beer and a little laminate uke made in china, woot woot!

I just wanted to say thank you. You make ukulele underground and the world a better place. I have previously read your thoughtful and very informative posts on other threads as well. They are very helpful to myself and I am sure many others that share my opinion.
Richard Jensen
 
the most adverse environmental conditions imaginable? huh? I did a factory walk through with my camera a while back I will put below. -
By the way, Casey Kamaka is one of the best custom builders in the world. His finish and craftsmanship is impeccable.



Richard - that is easily the nicest compliment I have ever received. Something good to shoot for, I will try to live up to that.
 
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the most adverse environmental conditions imaginable? huh?
When I read that I hoped it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Hawaii's famously fabulous climate... :)
 
My contribution to this discussion..........

I own a Collings UC1 (it was in fact my first ever UKE) and a Kamaka HF2 Concert. Both are beautifully finished, Collings a little more refined but having a softer finish than the Kamaka........both have a great although different sound. The UC1 has a satin mahogany finish and normal gcae tuning over Aguila Nylgut strings. The HF2 is gloss finsihed Koa with Gcae tuned over Fremont blacks.

The UCI has the most pleasant bright waterfall/rainfall droplet sound and is awesome for softish chords, fingerpicking, playing kid's or christmas songs or practicing while the wifey is watching TV or you are in a Hotel room, not saying that it is just as much fun playing Elton John or Dr. Hook and the Medicine show tunes. It is by far the easiest instrument to play that I own and I take it with me when I travel (great hard case).

The HF2 volume is louder and fuller (probably the low G arrangement) but when I go to a UKE Jam or feel like really belting out something .... it is the instrument I grab for. I put a UKE leash on it for standing and I prefer the feel of the blacks over the nylguts but I love having the abiliity to choose different feels and sounds for different tunes.

One instrument just fits one type of sound better than the other................... don't get me started on my Gstring soprano, or Kanilea tenor, or the now no-longer-in-production Mandobird I picked up last month.



I would not part with either of them.
 
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