Koa grades
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koalohapaul
Well-known member
Black koa? Don't you mean ebony? Just kidding. That's probably from here on Oahu, up Tantalus. Unfortunately, I've never had any to use for myself, but I have seen a couple of really nice boards. In fact, my brother and I went up with Bart Potter one day, but the logs we were planning on taking were mostly rotten.
For those who don't know, black koa is not really black. It's a darker chocolaty koa, with near black striping in the grain pattern.
For those who don't know, black koa is not really black. It's a darker chocolaty koa, with near black striping in the grain pattern.
Koa_Supplier
Member
koa landowners
Hello again!
I just want to make sure we are all on the same page... it is illegal to do something (i.e. cut koa) if the rightful owner says you cannot do it. That being said, if the State or Kamehameha Schools (KS) says you can go cut their koa, you can. Over the years, I've had contracts with various landowners to harvest koa, one of which was a contract with the State of Hawaii, Dept of Hawaiian Homelands to salvage, harvest, cut, and replant a particular area of koa forest. With that contract, I was legally cutting the koa, and only my company was allowed to.
The is an ongoing project to replant koa. the 100-year lease with the rancher ended and the State decided to put the lands back into a native forest again, rather than the grass-lands it turned into over the last 100 years.
Is koa endangered? simple answer, No. read on...
How old must a koa tree be before mature enough to cut? generally 30-40 years is the youngest, but ask Bart about his 18 year-old wind-blown koa tree that produced some of the nicest color, 5A curl, guitar-size material you'd ever find. that was probably not typical, but it exists, so even 20 year-old trees are sometimes ok. We did a study a few years back with the Univ. of Hawaii testing some of the different properties of koa at different ages. turns out when they are in their "teens" they are heavy with sapwood. During the teens they don't grow in diameter much, but rather grow the heartwood. And, like humans, koa trees vary in growth from tree to tree. So bart's 18-year old tree was probably like the sophmore in High School who had to shave twice a day!
Mythbuster #02... by the way, cows LOVE koa seedlings. Don't ever let anyone tell you that ranching and koa forestry mix well. The only way it can mix well if the cows aren't allowed into the area where koa seedlings are trying to grow. after a few years and the trees are big and strong enough, the cows and koa koa can comingle, BUT every time a new koa tree tries to sprout and grow, the cows will eat it. so basically they cannot really live together well. Not to mention, cows generally need grass to eat, and the grass covering prevents koa trees from sprouting. So, in reality, ranching and koa forestry don't mix well, unless the ranch is big enough and cows few enough.
Ranching has generally been the demise of the koa forests- not LOGGING or CUTTING the trees. Koa trees, like vegetables and flowers, have a life cycle but will grow back, IF ALLOWED to grow back. When non-native species of plants and animals are brought into the mix, the native forest has a harder time to survive. Ranching has been one of those killers- clearing the forest to make way for grass (100 years ago that is what happened).
Anyway, I"m starting to stray from the topic of grades, but thought some might be interested in a little bit about what is really going on with the koa forests.
By the way, we are NOT running out of koa. there is more koa falling over and dying, and coming back to life, than what we could ever use. It is just not being harvested right now. Basically, there is very little koa that is commercially available because the larger landowners, such as KS and the State, want to make sure they harvest it properly. they are responsible to far more people than say a single landowner who has a small plot of land with a few koa trees on it. That person can pretty much do anything he or she wants. Whereas the State has to answer to the taxpayers and KS is such a visible entity, they are going to be scrutinized for anything they do. Sadly, it is often easier to do nothing, than to attempt to try to do something good, since their will always be a few that will not agree with what they do.
On a brighter note, KS has been working towards an enviromentally sound project to harvest around 30,000 acres (I think that is the correct number, but it could be 20,000, either way, it is over 10,000 acres) of land with a variety of species, much of which is koa. they have been working on this for years and seem to be getting closer, but not really sure yet.
As far as material for ukuleles goes... we are SO lucky the ukulele is SMALL. The guitar world has been having a harder and harder time over the years to acquire quality woods because of the size of the instrument. With the ukulele, you can use trees much younger, and also many of the bigger branches.
Because of the size advantage, not only do you use less wood, but you can use a LOT more of the wood out there. Because of the size limitations of the guitar and the uke. If you have a 4" wide quartersawn board, pretty much no guitar maker can use that narrow of a width, but an uke maker can pretty much get a top, back or side out of it for a soprano, concert, and probably even a tenor.
Regarding 5A stock- there still really isn't all that much out there, so if your uke has the killer wood on it, please have some appreciation for what it took to get it there, no matter where it was made.
Jorma
Hello again!
I just want to make sure we are all on the same page... it is illegal to do something (i.e. cut koa) if the rightful owner says you cannot do it. That being said, if the State or Kamehameha Schools (KS) says you can go cut their koa, you can. Over the years, I've had contracts with various landowners to harvest koa, one of which was a contract with the State of Hawaii, Dept of Hawaiian Homelands to salvage, harvest, cut, and replant a particular area of koa forest. With that contract, I was legally cutting the koa, and only my company was allowed to.
The is an ongoing project to replant koa. the 100-year lease with the rancher ended and the State decided to put the lands back into a native forest again, rather than the grass-lands it turned into over the last 100 years.
Is koa endangered? simple answer, No. read on...
How old must a koa tree be before mature enough to cut? generally 30-40 years is the youngest, but ask Bart about his 18 year-old wind-blown koa tree that produced some of the nicest color, 5A curl, guitar-size material you'd ever find. that was probably not typical, but it exists, so even 20 year-old trees are sometimes ok. We did a study a few years back with the Univ. of Hawaii testing some of the different properties of koa at different ages. turns out when they are in their "teens" they are heavy with sapwood. During the teens they don't grow in diameter much, but rather grow the heartwood. And, like humans, koa trees vary in growth from tree to tree. So bart's 18-year old tree was probably like the sophmore in High School who had to shave twice a day!
Mythbuster #02... by the way, cows LOVE koa seedlings. Don't ever let anyone tell you that ranching and koa forestry mix well. The only way it can mix well if the cows aren't allowed into the area where koa seedlings are trying to grow. after a few years and the trees are big and strong enough, the cows and koa koa can comingle, BUT every time a new koa tree tries to sprout and grow, the cows will eat it. so basically they cannot really live together well. Not to mention, cows generally need grass to eat, and the grass covering prevents koa trees from sprouting. So, in reality, ranching and koa forestry don't mix well, unless the ranch is big enough and cows few enough.
Ranching has generally been the demise of the koa forests- not LOGGING or CUTTING the trees. Koa trees, like vegetables and flowers, have a life cycle but will grow back, IF ALLOWED to grow back. When non-native species of plants and animals are brought into the mix, the native forest has a harder time to survive. Ranching has been one of those killers- clearing the forest to make way for grass (100 years ago that is what happened).
Anyway, I"m starting to stray from the topic of grades, but thought some might be interested in a little bit about what is really going on with the koa forests.
By the way, we are NOT running out of koa. there is more koa falling over and dying, and coming back to life, than what we could ever use. It is just not being harvested right now. Basically, there is very little koa that is commercially available because the larger landowners, such as KS and the State, want to make sure they harvest it properly. they are responsible to far more people than say a single landowner who has a small plot of land with a few koa trees on it. That person can pretty much do anything he or she wants. Whereas the State has to answer to the taxpayers and KS is such a visible entity, they are going to be scrutinized for anything they do. Sadly, it is often easier to do nothing, than to attempt to try to do something good, since their will always be a few that will not agree with what they do.
On a brighter note, KS has been working towards an enviromentally sound project to harvest around 30,000 acres (I think that is the correct number, but it could be 20,000, either way, it is over 10,000 acres) of land with a variety of species, much of which is koa. they have been working on this for years and seem to be getting closer, but not really sure yet.
As far as material for ukuleles goes... we are SO lucky the ukulele is SMALL. The guitar world has been having a harder and harder time over the years to acquire quality woods because of the size of the instrument. With the ukulele, you can use trees much younger, and also many of the bigger branches.
Because of the size advantage, not only do you use less wood, but you can use a LOT more of the wood out there. Because of the size limitations of the guitar and the uke. If you have a 4" wide quartersawn board, pretty much no guitar maker can use that narrow of a width, but an uke maker can pretty much get a top, back or side out of it for a soprano, concert, and probably even a tenor.
Regarding 5A stock- there still really isn't all that much out there, so if your uke has the killer wood on it, please have some appreciation for what it took to get it there, no matter where it was made.
Jorma
taylordb
Well-known member
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but does the presence of sapwood in koa, negatively affect the sound? I've seen some very pretty ukes that have a stripe of sapwood down the center. Just wondering if it negatively affects the sound?
Moore Bettah Ukuleles
Well-known member
I seriously doubt it. It such a small percentage when compared with the heartwood anyway. I covet koa with sapwood, you can get some beautiful results with it. As a builder you need to be careful as it can be buggy, rendering that part of it useless. To a termite, koa heartwood is like brussels sprouts; they'll eat it if they have to. But koa sapwood is like ice cream, especially when green.
Maybe Koa is different than other woods, but branches contain reaction wood.
It is common for branch wood to crack and split. More so with the big ones.
This is not the wood you would use in an instrument because over time there will be problems.
It was an awesome one to resurrect!
taylordb
Well-known member
Thanks for the replys everone!
koalohapaul
Well-known member
I looooooove sapwood. A lot of people seem to associate it with defects, but there's nothing wrong with it at all. Well, aside from the bugs, like Chuck mentioned. I have a few boards that I saved, because they have an unusual amount of good white sapwood. They aren't that curly, but the width of the sapwood is unusual.
Wood with a highly figured grain pattern is considered desirable, but surely that is only for the sake of its appearance? Beautiful swirling patterns look attractive on furniture and panelling etc. but how does it affect the acoustic properties of musical instruments? I think a plain, straight grain should sound better.
What it sounds like is of paramount importance; what it looks like is a secondary consideration - or is it?
Ukantor.
What it sounds like is of paramount importance; what it looks like is a secondary consideration - or is it?
Ukantor.
Kaneohe til the end
Well-known member
from what ive seen (not much) it seems like highly figured woods tend to have better grain patterns also. then again ive seen that hella curly taylor solid body made of flatsawn koa with lots of runout.
Pete Howlett
Well-known member
Thanks for the 'hope' in your emails Jorma. I'd like nothing better than to visit Hawaii on a koa buying trip... anyone want to sponsor me? 
I have some very dark koa - purchased from a private eBay client about 4/5 years ago - trees down on her property and converted - Most the concert size billets look like this: It was only $35 a bd/ft and has a deep rich brown colour with plenty of black streaks.
I've processed the image slightly to remove the 'washout' from the morning light but it is as best described as chocolate.
I know I said I'd be away fro a week - I tried to go back to the workshop just to photograph this and it has done for me. I have never been this ill with 'flu before and I've had hep, pneumonia and chronic reaction asthma at one time or another. This really sucks!
I have some very dark koa - purchased from a private eBay client about 4/5 years ago - trees down on her property and converted - Most the concert size billets look like this: It was only $35 a bd/ft and has a deep rich brown colour with plenty of black streaks.
I've processed the image slightly to remove the 'washout' from the morning light but it is as best described as chocolate.
I know I said I'd be away fro a week - I tried to go back to the workshop just to photograph this and it has done for me. I have never been this ill with 'flu before and I've had hep, pneumonia and chronic reaction asthma at one time or another. This really sucks!
"it seems like highly figured woods tend to have better grain patterns"
I regard "figure" and "grain pattern" to be interchangeable descriptions. Variegated colour comes into the discussion also, but doesn't a straight, regular, unfigured grain generally give the best acoustic properties?
We all like pretty things, but I would not pay extra for "killer" looks if a plainer instrument might sound better.
Have any of our luthier friends got any thoughts on the matter, or is this a line of enquiry you would rather not explore?
Ukantor.
I regard "figure" and "grain pattern" to be interchangeable descriptions. Variegated colour comes into the discussion also, but doesn't a straight, regular, unfigured grain generally give the best acoustic properties?
We all like pretty things, but I would not pay extra for "killer" looks if a plainer instrument might sound better.
Have any of our luthier friends got any thoughts on the matter, or is this a line of enquiry you would rather not explore?
Ukantor.
Pete Howlett
Well-known member
Grain-pattern= figure I:agree:
In my experience plain but 'light' as in mass is better than highly figured which is very often denser...
15 years ago Jorma's father supplied me with a pinky colored koa. I have struggled to get anything like it since 2001. It proved the best there was and made exceptional instruments. When I started buying koa again in 2004 all that seemed to be available from the supliers in Hawaii was the golden brown stuff. Between 1994 and 1998 I'd had plenty of red and some very spongey brown stuff sent to me by Collier Thelen of Music Exchange for the 'Island Koa' brand I built for him - these occassionally come up for resale on eBay. The brown stuff was a beggar to work but it sounded great. When I needed wood I got 100 sets from him for $4000 or eight 6 or 8 string tenors. Wouldn't happen today would it? When I called him in 2000, that same wood was now $75 a set. I guess it's up to $110 now! Collier was wise and invested in koa wood futures
If I buy koa now it is on eBay where WYSIWYG generally... although I have been spectacularly ripped off more than once buying privately through suppliers who I met and did business with on eBay!
In my experience plain but 'light' as in mass is better than highly figured which is very often denser...
15 years ago Jorma's father supplied me with a pinky colored koa. I have struggled to get anything like it since 2001. It proved the best there was and made exceptional instruments. When I started buying koa again in 2004 all that seemed to be available from the supliers in Hawaii was the golden brown stuff. Between 1994 and 1998 I'd had plenty of red and some very spongey brown stuff sent to me by Collier Thelen of Music Exchange for the 'Island Koa' brand I built for him - these occassionally come up for resale on eBay. The brown stuff was a beggar to work but it sounded great. When I needed wood I got 100 sets from him for $4000 or eight 6 or 8 string tenors. Wouldn't happen today would it? When I called him in 2000, that same wood was now $75 a set. I guess it's up to $110 now! Collier was wise and invested in koa wood futures
If I buy koa now it is on eBay where WYSIWYG generally... although I have been spectacularly ripped off more than once buying privately through suppliers who I met and did business with on eBay!
Thanks for that, Pete. Hope you soon feel much better.
The new solid koa KoAlanas seem to be made from plain, straight-grained wood. They are very keenly priced, so anyone who favours good sound over fancy grain should get a great deal.
Ukantor.
The new solid koa KoAlanas seem to be made from plain, straight-grained wood. They are very keenly priced, so anyone who favours good sound over fancy grain should get a great deal.
Ukantor.
erich@muttcrew.net
Well-known member
Grain = Figure?
I don't really agree, but this is probably just a question of vocabulary.
When we talk about grain, I think we normally mean the lengthwise grain of the wood representing the yearly growth rings, whereas the figure is generally horizontal to the grain, as for example in curly koa or flamed maple.
I haven't had the pleasure of working with koa so far, but we do use flamed maple quite a lot, and when I pick up a piece of it I can see very straight, even grain in one direction and very curly, translucent flame in the other. If I compare a piece of plain maple, it has the same grain, but (almost) none of the curl. If I said “grain and figure are the same thing”, how could I distinguish these two pieces of wood?
Erich
I don't really agree, but this is probably just a question of vocabulary.
When we talk about grain, I think we normally mean the lengthwise grain of the wood representing the yearly growth rings, whereas the figure is generally horizontal to the grain, as for example in curly koa or flamed maple.
I haven't had the pleasure of working with koa so far, but we do use flamed maple quite a lot, and when I pick up a piece of it I can see very straight, even grain in one direction and very curly, translucent flame in the other. If I compare a piece of plain maple, it has the same grain, but (almost) none of the curl. If I said “grain and figure are the same thing”, how could I distinguish these two pieces of wood?
Erich
Pete Howlett
Well-known member
You know erich you ought to read what i said -
However what you are talking in your long paragraph is the effect of grain direction in curly woods. Just look at the edge of a curly koa board and it looks like the grain has had an old-fashioned permanent wave!
I do think that this is all pedantic semantics. As I said much earlier I think even vaguer terms like 'pretty' and 'prettier' would be much better... then it really would be a subjective bear-pit! There are even new definitions of curl - fiddleback, tiger, sausage; for other phenomonen like waterfall curl, beeswing mottle, pomele, spiderweb - sheesh the list is as bewildering as an a la carte menue! It's all just pretty wood isn't it?
. I agree with you, 'grain' is different. Grain-pattern is an attempt to call 'figure'.
However what you are talking in your long paragraph is the effect of grain direction in curly woods. Just look at the edge of a curly koa board and it looks like the grain has had an old-fashioned permanent wave!
I do think that this is all pedantic semantics. As I said much earlier I think even vaguer terms like 'pretty' and 'prettier' would be much better... then it really would be a subjective bear-pit! There are even new definitions of curl - fiddleback, tiger, sausage; for other phenomonen like waterfall curl, beeswing mottle, pomele, spiderweb - sheesh the list is as bewildering as an a la carte menue! It's all just pretty wood isn't it?
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Generally Speaking
The best tonewood is straight grain quartersawn wood
The best figure comes from flatsawn wood.
Occasionally one will find a beautiful figure in quartersawn wood and this can become very pricey.
http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showpost.php?p=219098&postcount=14
The name Fiddleback is at least a century old maybe even two.
When I hear someone say the wood has a waterfall figure I know they don't mean tiger. I like the different names. Otherwise it would be like categorizing all wood as just "Wood". That ain't no fun!
And yes, it is all just pretty wood.
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Moore Bettah Ukuleles
Well-known member
:agree: For me, grain is primarily a structural consideration. Figure on the other hand is partly structural but chosen more for it's appearance. The degree of figure (amongst many other variables) can effect the tonal properties of an instrument.
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