Schoenhut 5400

Kayouker said:

(Whispering) Booli, thank you for your kind inquiry. I dare not speak too loudly, else I'll wake the children and Lord knows they need the sleep and we, well we need the peace. Actually, I'm exhausted so we'll have to rely on the Magic Cube...

Magic Cube sez (first reading);

"It's a great uke for a five-year old... if his first name is Jake"

Second reading (at dinner time):

"Jake, I'll let you play my Schoenhut, but first you'll have to finish your sacred cow."

And last:

"End of the line - please check for personal items and exit the car. Thank you for choosing Metro."

OK, OK just one more roll...

"I rather liked it, really"

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Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that you are trying to be funny, and I guess I'm not smart enough to understand the punchline here. Which is fine, as I never claimed nor tried to become the smartest person in the room, however....

I thought that some of us were at least still trying to participate in a meaningful conversation.

Maybe I was just dreaming about that instead.

At this point, I'll have to rely on some advice I've seen elsewhere here on the forum:

"It is impossible to reason with people who do not rely upon reason."-mascompro

I am truly sorry that you have chosen to propagate miasma. You should enjoy it while it lasts.

For me, now, that is all sir.

Kayouker, take a chill pill, dont take it personal,everybody has a point of view you seem to think you can impose your views on everyone. The world's not like that or havent you worked that out,you seem to be taking it to personal or have you got shares in the company(joke) .Graham

Yep. There are of plenty of ukes I like that others don't and vice versa. It makes the world go around.

While I respect Kayouker's loyalty and devotion to Schoenhut (I myself am fiercely loyal to The Magic Fluke and Martin Guitar companies), the imitation Fleas in question here are clearly meant to be considered as toy ukuleles meant for children to play with. The fact that they can be made "playable" doesn't change that in any way.

As evidence to my conclusions, I offer these exhibits:

Amazon, apparently the venue of choice for purchasing the afore mentioned toys, lists them mostly in the toy categories.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...s=schoenhut+ukulele&sprefix=schoenhut,aps,155

The Magic Fluke Company has them listed in the gallery on their new web site with the following description:

"Schoenhut Flea lookalike toy ukes. These are imported and distributed by Schoenhut to the toy market under license from The Magic Fluke Co. LLC. Because of the toy safety certifications, they are not to be compared with our USA made instruments however they are playable and very competitive in their price range. "

So, they are only licensed to be sold as... toys.

http://www.magicfluke.com/category-s/1880.htm

And finally, Schoenhut themselves make no attempt whatsoever to suggest that they are anything other than a toy company. In fact, they consider themselves the world leader in toy pianos and their web address literally starts with "toy".

http://www.toypiano.com/product_list.asp?html_category=string instruments


Playable? Technically... yes, if you have the experience and skills to identify and repair the out-of-the-box issues with tuners, strings, bridges etc. I've actually managed to do set-ups on and play several toy guitars and ukes over the years, my wife is a teacher, but I wouldn't be inclined to keep any around for myself.

I've always found it interesting on musical instrument forums that folks have a tendency to only view the world as seen through the eyes of the knowledgeable "geeks" that we are. We here can go on for hours about details and minutia about our beloved instruments, but the reality for the rest of the world is very different. The vast majority of uke purchasers for instance, know nothing about things like action, intonation or the profound effect of different strings. Details we tend to take for granted.

In the end, to each their own. As I tell friends looking for instruments, find the one that feels right to you and makes you happy and you'll probably do all right.

Kayouker seems to have found something in these toy ukes that speaks to him and brings him joy. That's great, but it doesn't make them right for everybody.

For myself, I would never bother with them, in part because before they licensed them from Magic Fluke they blatantly stole the design. Besides, I already have a real Flea that is so well built it pretty much eliminates the need for a "beater".

I do look forward to Barry's review however. He is, IMO, always thorough, impartial and honest and I have the utmost respect for his opinions. I've spent hours on his site absorbing information and his reviews certainly helped shape my loyalty and devotion to The Magic Fluke Co. (I own a Fluke, a Flea, a Firefly and bought my wife a Flea at Uke New Jersey! last year as well.)

Although... they all have rosewood fretboards... maybe a soprano with a poly fretboard would be better for camping... hmmm. Excuse me, I've gotta go check my finances.


Scooter

The 'toy' thing actually irritates me Scooter. Couple of reasons

1. Want to get your child a uke - then get them a god damn uke!!
2. They are priced higher than a lot of entry level ukes like Dolphins and Mahalos. Doesn't seem toy priced to me.

So I wonder whether that toy thing was partly down to the settlement on the use of the design with Magic Fluke? in other words 'sell them that way and we won't take it any further'? But in reality I think Schoenhut know exactly what they are doing and will be happy to capitalise on the sales to uke players.

Another point on toys. It makes it a win win for the brand. Think the uke is awful - hey its just a toy!

Am I making sense? I think there is a bit more to their approach to this than meets the eye?

Thanks for the kind words too buddy.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over the toy designation. I also don't think Schoenhut is at all focused on mainstream uke players. They are a toy company, and apparently a fairly good one at that. The fact that these imitation Fleas have found their way onto the radar of a handful of serious uke players is, I'm sure, inconsequential to their bottom line and UU members are definitely not their targeted clientele.

That doesn't make them a bad thing, just a reasonably well designed toy (although, they didn't actually design them). Take a look at the toy guitars listed on the same page as the imitation Fleas. Would you be inclined to reccommend one of those to a beginning guitarist?

I think that what happened here is that Schoenhut got lucky and stole a design that happens to be a brilliant design. From some accounts in various threads, they seem to have seriously cheaped out on materials and workmanship. They definitive word on that will, for me, come from your own long-range observations.


Scooter


P.S. I completely agree with your reason #1, and should my son show interest in playing the Ukulele he will get to choose his very own Flea. I feel the same way about all instruments. If your child shows a genuine interest in playing a musical instrument, the best way to help them achieve success is to get them the best possible instrument you can afford.

bazmaz said:

A warranty from Amazon is no reason to give a uke a better review. Amazon provide a warranty on everything they send out.

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I couldn't agree more, despite the fact that I never suggested that my friend - and particularly in that I fully understand that your uke reviews are firm and based solely on the ukelele reviewed, defective or not, as it is received and as you choose.

As a reviewer myself, I take a less rigid approach, but that's just me. If a product was not warrantied, I'd really have to think twice about recommending it or scoring it nearly as highly, knowing that some of them are bound to be defective, and in the case of ukes, especially any under $100.

Such a failing cannot be ignored by me, anyway.

OTOH a really, really good warranty - to me - is a real asset in making sure one will receive what I believe, we all expect: receipt of a playable instrument, one that the buyer will "quite like". Honestly, where are the buyers who'd prefer a uke without a dependable warranty unless it's used (buyer beware)? Or perhaps one from the current Ebay Gambler's sale on the Lanikai 21-B (regularly $179)? One poster copped one of these for $15 (plus shipping) on the basis that Butler advises that 70% of them are nicely playable, and his was. He was willing to gamble. Most people aren't.

Without a warranty I'd have been stuck with 3 or the 4 Kala wall hangings that I purchased - a tragedy. With the warranty, I was refunded and all are now nicely playable. The wonderful thing about buying through Amazon is that unlike even some of the expensive ukes, their warranty is excellent, fast, no questions asked, and free. Bad tuner or bridge? They'll send you another and let you keep the defect! That's pretty special - to me - and to the poster here that is rebuilding the defect they replaced. Good! As noted, this cannot be said of even some of the more expensive ukes, or of all the retailers who sell them. Many posters are even put off by having to pay to return a defect, especially a lower priced uke, true?

Of course.

Unlike my Kala's I didn't have to exercise the warranty on the S-5400, and nor did the majority of buyers I worked hard to research first. As far as I'm concerned that's a reasonable performance for any under $100 offering, ergo it would not affect my review terribly much. As the many Gambler's buyers will attest, if the price is right they are more than willing to suffer up to 30% defects from a defective lot for the considerable value of the 70% that play and sound terrific.

But that's me. I'm terribly sorry you had a broken tuner - did you not have a warranty? It's rather a shame you felt forced or rushed into reviewing a defect, and frankly I'm not at all sure that's completely fair to the uke either. To me, part of a review might be testing the warranty.

But so be it - I do understand that's your position, so be it.

I simply disagree with its narrowness. And I suspect so do others who are in the market for an entry level uke that may suffer an occasional defect - especially knowing that the defect will be quickly replaced at no cost. If I didn't already own the Schoenhut, the fact that you reported that you "quite liked it, really" would have closed the sale, your broken tuner notwithstanding.

Schoenhut sent me one of these this past week for review. Maybe I just got a good one...but right out of the box it played decently. The strings of course should be swapped, but I decided that I would do the review based on how it played out of the box (not going to swap the strings). My opinion is...if they are going to market it in such a way, then I can't be tinkering with it out of the box. It has to to be reviewed as a toy and with the setup, strings, and hardware it came with.

Since it's such a hot topic, I probably won't say anything else about it here.

All in all, I think that maybe a little breathing room should be given on these Schoenhut ukes. Probably a large majority of their buying audience are non-ukulele playing parents that want to buy something inexpensive for their kid to play around with.

As a parent, I'm well aware that anything I give to my 3 year old will most likely be destroyed.

I can honestly, HONESTLY say, that in the many many ukes I have bought, I have never once considered or examined the warranty...

I did have a warranty, but when I get a uke with a defect I write about it - it's kind of how good reviews work - its a warning to others. Sure, I could have returned it and kept returning them until I got a good one, but what good would that do (besides it being a massive pain in posting back and forth...)

I think the use of a return warranty is a hassle. I think the child who opens one on birthday morning doesnt want a broken ukulele, and Mummy and Daddy saying 'don't worry son, it has a warranty' will make a blind bit of difference.

But thanks for advice on how to write my reviews - no idea how I actually get so much traffic to the website....

(Final point - taking my 'quite like it really' out of any context is kind of like those B movie DVD's that plaster quotes out of context on their films like 'fantastic'... - I quite like it having spent a lot of time and effort (and cost) in getting it up to shape. I don't think many of my readers will be wanting to do that, nor wanting the hassle of warranty returns, and as such I cannot see any way I would recommend the uke in my review. Oh - and did some testing on the fingerboard. The Flea I have is five years old and showing signs of wear. I pressed a small file onto an unworn part of the flea fingerboard, and it left no mark. I did the same on the Schoenhut and it left a dent. The Schoenhut fingerboard will NOT last as long as a Flea. Just another niggle)

UKEonomics said:

Schoenhut sent me one of these this past week for review. Maybe I just got a good one...but right out of the box it played decently.

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They sent it to you for your review. Don't you think someone there would have hand picked a "good" one if they know it's going to a reviewer?

Itsme - I have to agree. I keep my review a mix of those sent to me and those I buy undercover for that very reason.

My review is now up

bazmaz said:

My review is now up

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Not a bad review, I must have had too much influence on you
I suspect you made a bit much of the broken tuner (but fair on the uncertainty of QC) and a bit much of the gloss neck (something ).

In the US pricing is reversed, instead of ~35pd its ~35usd which puts it below a dolphin.

In other news, I'm gradually becoming convinced that an all plastic ukulele doesn't really cut it either. The right sound isn't really there.

So for an utter beginner who really has no clue what to even look for in a ukulele I still have to safely suggest a genuine flea and really suggest a lightly used one. And possibly a concert since these schoenhuts may possibly (maybe) threaten the resale value of a soprano flea.

I guess I'd better get a camera in order and take a shot at a couple of reviews as well.

Mixed review - it took work to get it playable which for beginners is, I think, the worst part. Sound was reasonable though. Not sure how long that bridge and fingerboard are going to last.

Had messages from other owners this afternoon saying I got a good one as theirs sound terrible!

I REALLY don't like the gloss myself - feels sticky and looks awful!

Well done Baz! As I've come to expect from you, an honest and thorough review. I look forward to the inevitable follow-ups as it ages.

Something really worries me about that bridge though. In the dissection pictures someone posted, we learned that the bridge is held on by two sharp, pointy wood screws (presumably to save the time and cost of gluing and clamping). If that sucker pops off, the very real possibility would exist of a nasty cut on a child's hand from the exposed screws.


Scooter

My dear "Baz"...

An interesting view, to say the least. As has been pointed out by BK above, and as I believe you are aware, those of us here in the States are quite fortunate to be able to obtain the Schoenhut for roughly half the price of the Dolphin. With that in mind, how would that change your "value" score? In in addition, if your apparent advice to Schoenhut - to at the least provide good working tuners, say Grover 2b's and also supply the uke with good strings - would be taken, how much would that have further improved your overall score? I believe it's now 6.5 as I recall (do correct me if I'm wrong).

Put another way, for those who can buy this uke for half the price of a set-up Dolphin - and - who are willing and capable to make just these two changes, what level of increased overall performance - scoring wise - would their efforts achieve in your humble view?

Enquiring minds...

It's reviewed now dude. As I said, I review as I find, not on hypothetical scenarios.

"Baz"

ps - 6.3. And what about the bridge, the horrible gloss finish and the less than hard wearing fingerboard

bazmaz said:

It's reviewed now dude. As I said, I review as I find, not on hypothetical scenarios.

"Baz"

ps - 6.3. And what about the bridge, the horrible gloss finish and the less than hard wearing fingerboard

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Excellent question! I'll do my best to respond...


My questions specifically did not include your hypothesized possible future bridge failure, or your hypothesized possible future fret wear - as those remain hypothetical for now. As for the glossy finish, that's a matter of personal taste (I like it) and a factor which Schoenhut is hardly likely to change. OTOH good tuners and string make an easy, and important change and immediate improvement, I'd say.

Capish? Good.

Actually in my view, to ask what the score might be with good tuners and good strings was hardly hypothetical - after all you did examine and play the Schoenhut with both of those changes made by you - with your own good tuners and your Worths, did you not?

I'm sure our experienced and capable readers here would appreciate greatly knowing just how much added value - in your view - making these two quick, simple and inexpensive changes would achieve?

Likewise the value question is not hypothetical. The Schoenhut with Martins does in fact sell here for $35, about half the cost of a set-up Dolphin. How should we interpret your value score here in light of the fact that your cost in the UK is double the cost of the Dolphin? Surely our dramatic price advantage affects value, wouldn't you agree?

With all due respect, I'm not asking you to hypothesize but to address the facts as you and we know them. And I do hope I've adequately addressed your question.

Again, interesting review.

Kayouker - you know, I am really really pleased that you dig the Schoenhut so much. honestly I am. But honestly...

Value issue - I'm in the UK. I am a UK blogger. If you can get one cheaper then that is fantastic!
Bridge failure - I have seen a LOT of ukulele bridges. It looks like it is coming away - would you prefer that I didn't mention that?
Gloss - no, it isn't just personal taste when it is this thick. It makes the neck feel sticky and slow to play.
Tuners - like I made clear in the review - a beginner will not be particularly impressed at having to change tuners out.
Fret wear - not hypothesis. The Flea is hard to mark, but has worn in 5 years so there is a risk. The Schoenhut is scarily easy to dent. What does that suggest to you?

I forgot the uncomfortable headstock.

But all in all - like the way it sounds when sorted - not bad really, but I won't recommend it because it seems like a lottery.

Were all those things sorted (and I mean, tuners, strings, thick top, gloss, uncomfortable headstock, bridge, fingerboard) then perhaps the review would be different. They aren't though, so it won't be.

I think the sub score I gave on sound was the most relevant to what you are getting at. But there is a lot more to this uke that just that.

Have fun with yours - I am done!