Are $1000 plus ukes worth it?

Status
Not open for further replies.
buddhuu said:
We are very fortunate at UU that we have a number of very talented and dedicated luthiers amongst our members. Personally, rather than thinking of the instruments built by these people as "expensive", I tend to think of them as "high quality". Whether we like it or not, the system under which we live means that the time and labour involved in the creation of an object has a bearing on its cost. Again, whether we like it or not, scarcity and desirability have a similar effect on cost. Therefore, high quality, handmade instruments will tend to be significantly more expensive than high-volume mass production instruments.

Mass produced instruments can still be of good quality. CNC and the specialisms amongst workers on production lines can result in good, accurate, fairly consistent instruments - in some cases, more consistent than handmade instruments. However, if costs and therefore prices are to be kept down there will be compromises and limitations: materials may be of lower quality, be less cosmetically striking and may be less well prepared/dried/seasoned; finishing may be more cursory with less attention to detail; adhesives may be given less time to cure before moving/stringing the instrument etc. Quick and easy finishes (sprayed poly) may be used rather than more labour/skill intensive finishes (french polish for example).

The bottom line in the whole discussion is whether or not the cost of a given instrument is "worth it" to the individual considering it. Your reply to this question will contain your judgement on the matter. The response of another member will contain his or her judgement. What is worth it to you will not be worth it to another member and vide versa.

Whether you like it or not, some good musicians like £100 'ukuleles, have found decent quality at that point and make great music on those instruments. Whether you like it or not, some good musicians have found that the differences they perceive in a £750 instrument make a real difference to their playing experience and the sounds they make.

Funny old world, innit?
Click to expand...

I've actually heard stories where people like other lower brands over kamaka sound wise, so i believe it can be true someone who has
the money may find somethign that happens to be less money is better for their sound. Than there are those who just will never get to
own those high end instruments and to people of that status a 300 -500 dollar uke is 'high end' at least it is to me.
 
Do you know why divorces are so expensive? Because they're worth it! And so are those Compass Rose ukes Rick Turner makes.
 
That blue egg electric uke will probably need a refret some day, and the more you play it the sooner that day will come. Is it worth it? Or will you try to do it yourself? (That's usually a major joke...a first-time fret job by someone trying to do it on the cheap...)

From a luthier's point of view, it costs just as much...and sometimes more...to work on a cheap instrument as an expensive one. For instance, I'd charge as much to refret that blue uke as I would to do one of mine or one of Chuck Moore's, a Kamaka, Kanilea...or a Kala. It takes just as long on the intake and outgo, the basic work is no different, and too often cheap instruments have cheap plastic parts that crumble, crack, or fall off when you're working on them. It's like cars...it takes as much time to put a new set of tires on a junker as on something with only 50 K miles on it. Cheap can be more expensive in the end... Penny wise, pound foolish, as the saying goes.
 
Mattyukaholic said:
This thread feels a bit like one of those times when you're in an argument you never realised you were having.
Click to expand...

:agree: Since when did stating the simple fact that high-end instruments made with careful attention to detail are generally better than inexpensive knockoffs cranked out of a factory become criticism of people who can't afford the nicer instruments? I haven't seen that anywhere in this thread, yet I've seen several posts devoted solely to denying the concept as if it were the topic; taken to such ridiculous lengths that it's only barely short of being an attack on those who can afford to purchase nice instruments and choose to do so.

My ability is only average and I'll be the first to proclaim it, but for all that music is still very important to me and I have been blessed with enough disposable income to own a few very nice instruments. Does that make me "better" than someone who hasn't been so blessed? No, and no one in this thread has claimed that.

BTW...it's also kind of bad form to keep proclaiming what a great musician one is, irrespective of one's financial status. I play bass in a band every week and know that my role is important enough that when I have had to skip rehearsals a couple of times due to health, the rest of the band definitely missed the little bit that I bring to the table and were quick to inform me that my absence pretty much made rehearsal unproductive because some of the other players had become reliant on the little "cues" in my playing.

Even so, I know my ability is average at best, but even were I God's gift to music I think I'd rather allow others to proclaim that than describe myself so. And...if others aren't proclaiming that one is an excellent musician...well...maybe one isn't. LOL

Just seems like somebody has set up a straw man in their own mind and become dedicated to tilting at it...

John
 
Last edited:
Do you know one of the nice things about the Bluegrass world?

Nobody complains when they see a mandolin player choosing to play a Loar F-5 @ $200,000.00 or more.

Nobody complains when they see a guitar player with a pre-war herringbone D-28 @ $60,000.00 or so.

Nobody complains when they see a banjo player with a pre-war Gibson Granada @ $15,000 or more.

And nobody knows whether the fiddle or bass is worth $500.00 or $5,000.00 or $50,000.00 except the player.

New instruments respected in Bluegrass aren't cheap either...try a D-28 Authentic (incredibly close in sound to a 1938 version)...you'll be out about $8K or any good luthier's F-5 copy...$5K and up...or a decent Stelling or Deering or Prucha or American-made Recording King version of a Mastertone...you're in at least $4K (now that Gibson doesn't make banjos anymore!).

There are no more gratuitous displays of wealth in the Bluegrass world than in the ukulele world. Folks buy the instruments they want because they love good instruments, and many of them make sacrifices elsewhere in their lives to accommodate such purchases. And...another thing that I know from doing lutherie at festivals...the fan/amateur players who choose to buy and play expensive instruments are fully aware that they are able to leave these to their kids...the instruments have become a part of the family legacy to be kept in the family for generations to come.

So this "anti-expensive uke" thing just keeps coming up here on the forum, and it really seems petty and bitchy to me. There's a "sour grapes" aspect to it from folks attempting to claim some sort of muddy moral high ground for being cheap-skates and wanting everyone to go along with that program. It's an "I'm cheaper than you are" pissing contest, and it doesn't advance the state of the art of the music or the instruments.

And the funny thing is that there are still a lot of cheapie vintage ukes out there...like spruce topped Regals, for instance, that beat the hell out of modern cheapies. They may be beat up, but they're made of real wood, and they can sound fantastic, especially given that they are made out of real wood and they're 70 years old or more...like I am!
 
Why worry about what others have and why they cost much...you might be inquisitive on what is the difference, but does that matter if you have a certain budget
Everyone loves high end ukes or perceive to... the main thing you personally enjoy your uke... whether it be a 50 dollar uke to a 10,000 uke
Doesn't personal satisfacton fit into the equation and something like sentimental value rather than cost or image? always nice to have the best if you can afford it..I personally like the
tone, feel and looks of a high quality craftmanship ukulele.
but all guitars and ukuleles all have their own voices too...find what is pleasing to you and plays well...and it boils down to your budget and taste...
 
Last edited:
Rick Turner said:
...Folks buy the instruments they want because they love good instruments, and many of them make sacrifices elsewhere in their lives to accommodate such purchases...
Click to expand...
Exactly! I live in a very modest home and drive a modest car...most of my coworkers would consider both "beneath my station." Tough-stuff...I just have different priorities than they do. Kind of cheeses me off when somebody has the nerve to behave as if I'm being snooty by spending what money I do have on things that bring me joy.


Rick Turner said:
So this "anti-expensive uke" thing just keeps coming up here on the forum, and it really seems petty and bitchy to me. There's a "sour grapes" aspect to it from folks attempting to claim some sort of muddy moral high ground for being cheap-skates and wanting everyone to go along with that program...
Click to expand...

Yep. If all one can afford is an inexpensive uke, wonderful, buy an inexpensive uke and play the frets off it. If one can afford an expensive uke, and prefers to spend their money on something else, wonderful, buy an inexpensive uke and play the frets off it. Just don't think you are somehow superior to someone who does choose to purchase an expensive uke...especially if you don't have any idea about what other sacrifices they may be making to do so...or how hard they may be busting their...er...backside...to afford it!

John
 
Last edited:
Rick Turner said:
Do you know one of the nice things about the Bluegrass world?

Nobody complains when they see a mandolin player choosing to play a Loar F-5 @ $200,000.00 or more.

Nobody complains when they see a guitar player with a pre-war herringbone D-28 @ $60,000.00 or so.

Nobody complains when they see a banjo player with a pre-war Gibson Granada @ $15,000 or more.

And nobody knows whether the fiddle or bass is worth $500.00 or $5,000.00 or $50,000.00 except the player.

New instruments respected in Bluegrass aren't cheap either...try a D-28 Authentic (incredibly close in sound to a 1938 version)...you'll be out about $8K or any good luthier's F-5 copy...$5K and up...or a decent Stelling or Deering or Prucha or American-made Recording King version of a Mastertone...you're in at least $4K (now that Gibson doesn't make banjos anymore!).

There are no more gratuitous displays of wealth in the Bluegrass world than in the ukulele world. Folks buy the instruments they want because they love good instruments, and many of them make sacrifices elsewhere in their lives to accommodate such purchases. And...another thing that I know from doing lutherie at festivals...the fan/amateur players who choose to buy and play expensive instruments are fully aware that they are able to leave these to their kids...the instruments have become a part of the family legacy to be kept in the family for generations to come.

So this "anti-expensive uke" thing just keeps coming up here on the forum, and it really seems petty and bitchy to me. There's a "sour grapes" aspect to it from folks attempting to claim some sort of muddy moral high ground for being cheap-skates and wanting everyone to go along with that program. It's an "I'm cheaper than you are" pissing contest, and it doesn't advance the state of the art of the music or the instruments.

And the funny thing is that there are still a lot of cheapie vintage ukes out there...like spruce topped Regals, for instance, that beat the hell out of modern cheapies. They may be beat up, but they're made of real wood, and they can sound fantastic, especially given that they are made out of real wood and they're 70 years old or more...like I am!
Click to expand...

Haha! That's why I love you Rick. You always tell it like it is!
You've also reminded me that if I really was interested in making money in this business I'd be building guitars, mandos, violins.....or just about any other acoustic instrument than ukuleles! Part of the problem is that historically ukuleles have never been taken very seriously. (In fact it's still looked down upon by many (if uninformed) acoustic musicians.) Thankfully that's all changing now. Even as recently as 10 years ago when I'd tell people I build ukuleles, the first think they'd ask is if I build guitars. Now when I tell them what I do I've got their interest. Uke builders are finally getting some respect and as they do the craft attract better builders who build better instruments, those, that you have mentioned, will be passed down through generations. Just keep making good work according to your own high standards. Happily, there will always be room for everyone; the good, the bad, and even the ugly. There's an uke for everybody.
 
Last edited:
iamesperambient said:
I've actually heard stories where people like other lower brands over kamaka sound wise, so i believe it can be true someone who has
the money may find somethign that happens to be less money is better for their sound.
Click to expand...

My first uke was a Lanikai. I also lived in South Carolina and didn't know anyone else who played the ukulele. I thought it sounded really great (embarrassingly there is a review of this uke somewhere on UU that is glowing), I really did. In fact, when I got my first "nice" uke, a KoAloha, I was really disappointed. My ear had become so used to the sound of the Lanikai that hearing the stark difference of the KoAloha was startling.

It took me awhile to figure out that I had it backwards. The KoAloha sounded great and the Lanikai was, well, not so much. To me, this was like the Matrix, do you want the red pill or blue? I could have lived ignorant of this reality and been perfectly fine. I mean, I am an adult learner of music and just happy to be able to play anything resembling a song. I am not a pro at all. However, I'm glad I was able to retrain my ear. It has opened a whole new dimension for me, personally... and my wallet, too.

To Rick Turner's point, I see a lot of value in handmade, professionally luthiered instruments. Unlike a cell phone, TV, or even a car, they will be here for a long time, likely well after I am gone. They bring me, and hopefully many others, joy and it gives me something special to pass down to my kids.

It is cultural commentary, but I feel we are taught to "consume" things, the faster the better, and we always "need" the latest and greatest. I feel the need to push against this trend and find things of lasting value. We can debate over the definition of "value," but I am of the belief that I would rather pay 5 times the price for something that lasts 20 times longer. To me, that is value and "value" has little to do with being "cheap." I hope that makes sense.
 
I agree with @mmstan and @rickturner. Buy whatever uke(s) you can afford and give(s) you joy, regardless of how you play. If all you feel the need for is something inexpensive and you enjoy playing it, so be it. I doubt I'll every be particularly good, but I don't care. I play primarily for myself, for the challenge. Sound is important to me, but I also happen to love the artisan aspect of a finely crafted uke and the many unique woods that are available.

When I rode motorcycles, there were guys who were shreddingly fast on pretty basic machines. And there were some pretty slow/conservative riders on very expensive Ducati's. Nobody judged the slow guys on fast motorcycles. Same thing with bicycles.
 
Meh, if uke was my only hobby I'd totally be rocking one of those fancy K brands or something custom. But it's not. Gaming and LARP are also expensive hobbies. (This year I spent a low end K brand's worth on LARP costume, weapons and event tickets, and I also bought a PS4 and new TV... plus games thats another K brand right there) and even my cheap hobbies (books) are high volume (3 books every two weeks adds up). So, I'm happy with what I've got. Once I've paid off the credit card bill and another '0% on balance transfers' offer comes along... who knows?

I do know one thing, I play my Fluke at LARP and I play my Fluke while gaming (a quick chord progression while waiting for something to load!) and I probably wouldn't do either with a K brand/custom. (take an expensive uke camping? leave an expensive uke out next to my gaming set up so its quick to grab? I don't think so.)
 
Last edited:
Rick Turner said:
You know, Rick, I make no bones about it, the ukes we here at Compass Rose build ARE expensive, and you'll hear no apologies from me for it. When I can make less expensive ukes and not go out of business, I shall...and I'll continue to make the expensive ones I'm currently making.

Try paying rent here where I live and work. It's expensive! Try paying employees a living wage. It's expensive! Try competing with off-shore ukes...you can't, you just have to do something else, and that's what we do here.

As for finishes...don't imagine for a second that poly finishes are quick and easy. Have any of you reading these comments ever done uke or guitar finishing? I have, I do, and I'm about to spray seven instruments later today. I'm up to at least 4,000 sprayed finishes now over 40++ years. It's not cheap and it's not easy, and very, very few end users of ukes want to deal with French polish.

The bottom line is that it is really not easy to be a boutique maker of fine stringed instruments, especially when we have to deal with attitudes denigrating our efforts. I'm fine with folks having cheap instruments, though I am offended by instrument so cheap that they are not worthy of repairs when broken or worn. I don't like what I see as landfill masquerading briefly as musical instruments...and that's exactly what a lot of cheap uke are. They're disposable. They're not worth putting decent tuners on or worth refretting when frets wear...and they do, even under nylon strings.

One of the most frugal guitar players I know is a Buddhist monk, the Rev. Heng Sure (you can Google him...he's a heavy in that scene). He's got an Fabrizio Alberico steel string guitar http://www.albericoguitar.com/ (they start at $5,900.00) in a Calton case (about a grand, and better than insurance) with a custom case cover (keeps the Calton in good shape). He considers the money well spent, and he knows the guitar will be singing long after he is gone.

Money well spent now is well spent for decades to come. Money spent on cheap crap is money lost forever. Trees deserve to be turned into goods that serve many generations well.
Click to expand...

(Uh oh... two Ricks debating? This could get surreal.) I don't recall implying that an apology was due, Rick - and the paying-employees-a-living-wage thing was kind of acknowledged in my point about the labour involved.

Finishes? Yes, I've done nitro, poly and french polish/shellac. Not often, but enough to have a clue. Nitro may not be quick and easy on high end instruments (because it's done properly), but it's the quick, easy and cheap choice for a lot of box shifters because when thrown on thick it covers a multitude of sins and is bulletproof. I know that because I've stripped it off of instruments and found that when done cheaply it is a horrible, think coating that doesn't bond at all with the wood, but just sits there until someone chips it off with a chisel (see cheap electric guitars for further information).

Try reading my post as NOT being a criticism of skilled luthiers, as it was intended.

iamesperambient said:
I've actually heard stories where people like other lower brands over kamaka sound wise, so i believe it can be true someone who has the money may find somethign that happens to be less money is better for their sound. Than there are those who just will never get to own those high end instruments and to people of that status a 300 -500 dollar uke is 'high end' at least it is to me.
Click to expand...

I understand. Economically I live in the same world. That said, I have played some great handmade axes - 4, 6, 8 and 12 string. Don't ever be tempted to believe that there is no difference between volume product and hand crafted instrument (made by the right person).
 
Rick, no debate taken with you at all, no apologies back or forth between us!...just some further thoughts and perhaps amplification of what's being said.

And yeah, I do have a dog in this fight, so to speak...my living, so I do come to the defense of my craft and my fellow this-side-of-the-Pacific (counting Hawaii as being on this side!) luthiers, none of whom are doing much more than earning their daily bread and putting the kid(s) through college...so the kids won't have to be luthiers.

And none of this has been directed at you, Rick!
 
Rick Turner said:
Folks buy the instruments they want because they love good instruments, and many of them make sacrifices elsewhere in their lives to accommodate such purchases.
Click to expand...

I know I made a lot of sacrifices, and my custom Compass Rose was worth every penny. It is a rare day that I don't play it for at least an hour. Now, I am saving towards another custom. Glad you are back in your usual form. This has been a great thread.
 
Are $1000 ukes 5 times better than $200 ukes - can't answer that with certainty - although I personally believe they are - but in the final analysis it doesn't really matter anyway as long as I'm happy with my purchase. I have a number of ukes that are north of a grand and I make absolutely zero apologies for my acquisitions, no more than I expect apologies from anyone who has worked hard to make some honest money and decides to expend a portion of that money on their particular passion, whether that be ukes or boats or cars or whatevers. And as I mentioned in a previous thread, don't assume that expensive tastes and charitable giving are mutually exclusive propositions, because in my experience I find just the opposite to be the case more often than not.


On a tangent but related, I love to hear folks state with resolute conviction that they would never ever buy a ukulele that was a grand or more without first playing it. To these same folks a question: so if Chuck Moore approached you and said he had an extra custom Moore Bettah tenor uke sitting around that he would sell you for $1000 but you had to buy it without trying it first, and you had the dough to buy it, would you turn it down?
 
Another point I think not stated is that a lot of the Far East uke manufacturers are always looking at the bottom line. Some (not all) will not properly dry the woods or use substandard wood. You can get a uke that looks great w/ fancy binding, etc. and in a year when it gets humid or too dry, you've got a warped neck or cracks in the body.
Case in point-a nice American companies Chinese made uke decided to buzz on the C and E strings once it got humid where I live. The neck wood was obviously not dried properly and is unstable.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

salsarev
Pending KoAloha Opio KTO-10 acacia tenor plus soft case
Replies
1
Views
184
salsarev
salsarev
Patty
Strings Strings for a concert Risa stick? (Plus sad news from Risa.)
2
Replies
30
Views
1K
Jaded77
J
I
Sold Figured Koa Tenor, Vashon Island $250 plus shipping
Replies
15
Views
826
KevinFL
KevinFL
S
Sold Sell Risa Stick with hardcase $250 plus shipping (US)
Replies
8
Views
686
Cramsknaj
C
C
I won an auction of household goods plus...
Replies
16
Views
597
GreatPotoo
GreatPotoo
Top Bottom