Music rights redux

Another thread just brought something to mind and I know it has been discussed before.
I have a few hundred tunes I've downloaded from the net.
I didn't pay a nickel for them.
I don't plan to play them in any public venue.
I don't plan to sell my collection.
Am I breaking the law?
Or stiffing the authors?
Just because it's done all the time, does that make it okay?

Yes, it is illegal. By not paying for the songs, you are essentially stealing from the recording artist, songwriter, producer, etc. Unless, of course, the artists are voluntarily giving the songs away for free or they are not copyrightable material to start with. Whether you plan to use the songs to generate income for yourself (e.g., selling your collection, playing the songs in public for an event that generates revenue, etc.) is irrelevant. It is still illegal because you are taking someone else's work product without their consent.

Just because it is done all the time does not make it OK.

JeremyR said:

Unless, of course, the artists are voluntarily giving the songs away for free or they are not copyrightable material to start with.

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Just because a song is not under copyright (think old folk songs and classical music) doesn't mean that the performance is not copyrighted. I remember when Sting released "Songs from the Labyrinth", an album of songs composed by John Dowland (who died in 1626). You can bet his record label would defend their right to profit from the recording.

But you're right... it's still illegal.

Bill1 said:

Perhaps it is not illegal if you are using the material for personal study? Perhaps you only need to pay royalties to the artist if you use the material to generate income in any form?

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Wrong and wrong.

But a lot of people who would never think of shoplifting so much as a candy bar (stealing a physical object from a store) don't think it's wrong to avail themselves of "free" digital content they can find online. Piracy is a big issue these days.

Copyright is very complex, involving many different facets.

It really depends what country you are in, but since your location says Washington, the act of downloading the songs is illegal.

Can you clarify what "downloaded a couple hundred tunes" means? Are we just talking chords and lyrics here, or the actual song file?

Shazzbot said:

Am I breaking the law?

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Yes, unless the author - and owner of the copywritten music - themselves are giving the songs away for free.

Shazzbot said:

Or stiffing the authors?

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Yes, unless the author - and owner of the copywritten music - themselves are giving the songs away for free.

Shazzbot said:

Just because it's done all the time, does that make it okay?

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That's never - NEVER - been a valid argument. For anything. Ever.

As a musician myself, I buy my music that I have on my laptop and have since I got out of college (and will admit, was one of the stealing mp3 crowd). It's support for the artist, no matter how small. Even for the "name your price" albums on Bandcamp; if I can afford to give them a couple of bucks, I'll do it for the sake of support.

Interesting.
I asked these questions to provoke discussion.
The only comments are judgements of wrongdoing.
Most are silent.
I BOUGHT copies of both of Beloff's Daily Ukulele.
I could play only those tunes or play my dastardly downloaded chords and lyrics purloined from websites that have been up for years.
As long as I keep my door closed, I'm going to chance it.
;-)

Shazzbot said:

Interesting.
I asked these questions to provoke discussion.
The only comments are judgements of wrongdoing.
Most are silent.
I BOUGHT copies of both of Beloff's Daily Ukulele.
I could play only those tunes or play my dastardly downloaded chords and lyrics purloined from websites that have been up for years.
As long as I keep my door closed, I'm going to chance it.
;-)

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Every response above this was assuming you downloaded SONGS, that you listen to, because that is the generally understood meaning of "I have a few hundred tunes I've downloaded from the net."

And their condemnation was correct, that is illegal.

Are you saying you've downloaded tabs/chord/lyrics to songs that you are playing? Is THAT what you are asking about?

Shazzbot said:

Interesting.
I asked these questions to provoke discussion.
The only comments are judgements of wrongdoing.

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Your questions were pretty clear.

"Am I breaking the law?" is a pretty closed, yes/no response. Copyright infringement isn't really open to a lot of discussion (although it can get really dicey sometimes, esp when talking about performance rights of a song opposed to creation rights). A lot of times, if you have to ask about breaking the law, you probably are.

"Just because it's done all the time, does that make it okay?" is another pretty easy question to answer. How about, if everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you?

Shazzbot said:

I BOUGHT copies of both of Beloff's Daily Ukulele.

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You also asked about the "few hundred tunes I've downloaded from the net. I didn't pay a nickel for them." and wanted responses about that, not the stuff you paid for.

Never mind.
Could the moderator please delete this thread I started?

Ukejenny said:

Can you clarify what "downloaded a couple hundred tunes" means? Are we just talking chords and lyrics here, or the actual song file?

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Seconding this question - are you talking about, for instance, using DownloadHelper or the like to lift the audio from a YouTube page, or other means of file sharing? 100% illegal, but it's been going on in various times since the beginnings of personal recording devices - I was just reading in Geoff Emmerich's book about engineering for the Beatles how he bought a reel to reel tape deck when he was a teen and would tape songs off the radio. For my slightly younger generation, we did the same on cassette, either off the radio, or later from LPs, or even later from CD. Totally illegal, but as previously stated, not done for profit and "all the kids" did it. Nothing new here.

If you're talking about sheet music/lead sheets/chord charts found on the web, in my opinion (as a lapsed librarian) this is a bit more of a grey area, at least in the US, because of what is called fair use. Are you using it for educational purposes (your own) and not profiting? Fair use. Are you dowloading it, printing out copies, selling them to people or handing them out in a class that you are being paid for? Um, not fair use.

To me this all actually raises two questions: is it illegal, and/or is it unethical? The first is pretty black and white; the latter is more nebulous.

Also, only two parts of a song are actually covered in copyright. The melody, and the lyrics. Everything else is part of the 'arrangement'. So the chord progression, bassline, rhythm etc can't be copyrighted. (For obvious reasons, imagine if someone copyrighted CGAmF...)

Therefore, you can distribute chord progressions freely. The issue with chord sheets is they generally include the lyrics, which are under copyright.

As to the ethical standpoint, you know that when the musicians who cry about people ripping them off learned to play, they were using the same dodgy materials we all do. (see the history of Fake Books) Doesn't make it right, but you know...