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Ukulelia
09-05-2014, 09:16 AM
Not something I'd do myself, but I'm considering having this done. I'm holding off on buying the uke and replacement neck until those with uke building experience chime in. :o

The potential uke is a Mainland cedar/rosewood pineapple. It has a soprano size body and comes in either soprano or concert scale. Well, I prefer tenor... So, would replacing the stock neck with a tenor neck damage the uke?

My tentative plan is to buy the uke and replacement neck and fretboard, and pay someone with expertise to do the job. That is, if it will work, structurally. Whoever it is will probably be a guitar person, so any thoughts from uke folks would be great!

I feel dumb for asking this... But I only know what I want and not the ins and outs of making it happen.

Thank you!

ukantor
09-05-2014, 10:11 AM
Sounds like a strange idea to me. It would have to be a custom made neck, and removing a soprano neck, to replace it with a longer one, would entail quite a lot of delicate work. Why not just have the whole uke made to order?

John Colter.

sam13
09-05-2014, 10:21 AM
I was just talking with Kilin Reece about the same thing ... he said he could do it no problem. Give him a call, he is in Hawaii. 808-387-4583

He is on UU and I have found him to be patient, and extremely helpful.

He just sent me a video of his projects in his shop, I think he would let me email it to you if you like.

PM me with your email and I will send it.

Cheers.

AndyM
09-05-2014, 10:27 AM
You will probably run into problems with the position of the bridge on the uke body.The bridge should be approx the same distance from the 12th fret as the 1st fret is,putting a neck with a longer scale length onto the donor body will almost certainly cause problems.

ukantor
09-05-2014, 11:55 AM
Hi Andy, that's why I said it would have to be a custom made neck. If you want a uke with a soprano sized body, and the scale length of a tenor, the best approach would be to have it designed and built that way. Trying to adapt a soprano, by fitting it with a neck intended for a tenor, seems a strange thing to do.

JC.

sam13
09-05-2014, 11:58 AM
Hi Andy, that's why I said it would have to be a custom made neck. If you want a uke with a soprano sized body, and the scale length of a tenor, the best approach would be to have it designed and built that way. Trying to adapt a soprano, by fitting it with a neck intended for a tenor, seems a strange thing to do.

JC.

I am not a luthier, however KoAloha does have a Soprano Body with a Tenor neck ... and if I was going to buy a Soprano, I would buy their's as it has the tenor neck on a Soprano body.

ukantor
09-05-2014, 12:10 PM
A tenor is a tenor. The description derives from the scale length. Some people talk about, "a long neck soprano". There is no such thing, unless you mean one that joins at the fourteenth fret instead of the customary twelfth. If it does not have a soprano scale length, it is not a soprano. The size of a ukulele body may vary, and you may make a uke with a body of a size and shape normally associated with a soprano, but if it has a concert scale, then it is a concert. If it has a tenor scale, it is a tenor.

If KoAloha make a tenor with a very small body, I'd wager they did not concoct it simply by taking a neck and fretboard from the tenor production line, and fitting it straight onto a body intended for a soprano.

I could be wrong, of course - it has happened before.

I think.

John Colter.

Timbuck
09-05-2014, 12:20 PM
This has been discussed before, last year I think....It ended up as "Mission Impossible" due to scale lengths and bridge position :(

Jim Hanks
09-05-2014, 01:10 PM
There are some alternatives if you can find them like the Ohana SK-30L
http://www.ohana-music.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29788

there is a Mainland concert pineapple with tenor neck as well:
http://ukerepublic.bigcartel.com/product/mainland-solid-mahogany-long-neck-concert-pineapple-ukulele

coolkayaker1
09-05-2014, 03:02 PM
I am not a luthier, however KoAloha does have a Soprano Body with a Tenor neck ... and if I was going to buy a Soprano, I would buy their's as it has the tenor neck on a Soprano body.

You are right, Sam. Mission not only possible, but already landed. I owned one. A standard KoAloha body coupled with a standard KoAloha tenor neck. T2 model I believe. I loved it. Very head heavy, must use strap. Sound was soprano, yet even louder with great sustain and a familiar tenor fret spacing. I should never have sold it. One sold on eBay a month ago for $680; I bid and lost in the final minutes.

They use a concert size case.

There are reviews by Pippin in his online magazine, and youtube videos of it. HMS had a video of Corey playing it sweetly. MGM had youtube videos when he got the first models in 2010 or so. Mine was 2012. I've not seen new ones in a while. I miss mine greatly.

http://www.theukulelesite.com/koaloha-soprano-tenor-neck-new-model.html

http://youtu.be/pOZpwfGnHI0

Here's Pips overview at 4:50 min, but it's brief. The written review in hi Ukulele Player is better
http://youtu.be/Ii1_qlr5I1U

Even Pua Pua sold them.

http://www.hawaiianukuleleonline.com/koalohaksmt2

I'd love to own another one. I have plenty of straps now. Lol. If someone visits Papa, please ask if they still build them. It's, for obvious reasons, the best picking soprano-sounding instrument ever.

Dan Uke
09-05-2014, 05:52 PM
I'd love to own another one. I have plenty of straps now. Lol. If someone visits Papa, please ask if they still build them. It's, for obvious reasons, the best picking soprano-sounding instrument ever.

If he puts friction tuners or UPT tuners, I bet they would sell well. I had the Sceptre and I thought it was head heavy with the closed gear tuners

ukantor
09-06-2014, 12:14 AM
Coolkayaker said, "You are right, Sam."

In what way was Sam right? Nobody said that KoAloha have not made a tenor ukulele with a soprano sized body. They have - that is indisputable. Sam is wrong in referring to it as a soprano. A soprano has a scale length of 13"; a concert is 15"; a tenor is 17". That too is indisputable, although the figures are approximate, and can vary by a small amount.

John Colter.

Sven
09-06-2014, 12:39 AM
I would imagine that if you were placing a tenor neck on a soprano sized body, and wanted the bridge in roughly the right position, the neck joint would have to be at the 16th fret or something. So a standard issue tenor neck wouldn't fit. And given the increased tension of tenor strings, the soprano top wouldn't be braced enough.

And I agree with John. Call it a small bodied tenor, not a long scale soprano.

mzuch
09-06-2014, 03:08 AM
In the photos of the KoAloha shown in a previous post, the neck joins the body at the 16th fret and the bridge is close to the tail, far from the sweet spot. Not an optimal design, IMO. I'll stick with putting tenor necks on tenor bodies.

coolkayaker1
09-06-2014, 03:26 AM
Coolkayaker said, "You are right, Sam."

In what way was Sam right? Nobody said that KoAloha have not made a tenor ukulele with a soprano sized body. They have - that is indisputable. Sam is wrong in referring to it as a soprano. A soprano has a scale length of 13"; a concert is 15"; a tenor is 17". That too is indisputable, although the figures are approximate, and can vary by a small amount.

John Colter.

Your negativity is unbecoming. But you shout the loudest,so you win, ukeantor.

Sven, you are more than welcome to call it a small-body tenor. It has the exact soprano body that KoAloha used for sopranos, so most (HMS, Pua Pua, Ukulele Player Magazine and me) refer to it as a tenor-necked soprano, which is pretty fitting nomenclature to my mind.

Ukelalia, I have no idea if you want a KoAloha, but Sam had a good idea in that model and they have been built. By the time you find a less expensive uke and have it modded, it might be up around the same price as the K. I don't know. I will say that a tenor-necked soprano does sound great, so your idea is good. I don't know if the internal bracing is precisely the same as a standard sop. Perhaps the braces are either reinforced or relocated.

Great thought. Daniel , about the tuners. I can see a Sceptre and perhaps a PS having similar issues of heavy headedness. I do wonder if K still makes the T2 as they never are in stock recently.

ukantor
09-06-2014, 04:59 AM
"Your negativity is unbecoming."

Please help me to overcome this flaw in my character, coolkayaker. What must I do (apart from giving correct information) for you to consider my posts "becoming"?

John Colter.

stevepetergal
09-06-2014, 10:48 AM
Coolkayaker said, "You are right, Sam."

In what way was Sam right? Nobody said that KoAloha have not made a tenor ukulele with a soprano sized body. They have - that is indisputable. Sam is wrong in referring to it as a soprano. A soprano has a scale length of 13"; a concert is 15"; a tenor is 17". That too is indisputable, although the figures are approximate, and can vary by a small amount.

John Colter.

Here's what's "indisputable". KoAloha calls their long-neck soprano a long-neck soprano. (Check their web site) That's the only way I've ever heard them described. A soprano with a concert neck is a long-neck soprano. A soprano with a tenor neck is a long-neck soprano.
Now I won't be unnecessarily contrary. If you want to call it an E-flat sousaphone, you can. No hurt feelings. But if you say it's indisputably a sousaphone, you're wrong. I can call it a long-neck soprano if I like.

Dan Uke
09-06-2014, 11:57 AM
Great thought. Daniel , about the tuners. I can see a Sceptre and perhaps a PS having similar issues of heavy headedness. I do wonder if K still makes the T2 as they never are in stock recently.

You know that's why I sold the Sceptre. I don't want to rely all the time on a strap so balance is important. I don't mind overall weight feeling "heavy" and actually don't like ukes that are too light as they sound hollow.

As for ukantor, why don't you show more examples of people calling ukes by scale length. I do own a tenor with a concert scale Kamaka. I'm glad they didn't charge me tenor prices. :p

ukantor
09-06-2014, 01:32 PM
"A soprano with a concert neck is a long-neck soprano. A soprano with a tenor neck is a long-neck soprano."

Yep, I'm all for people calling their instruments whatever they like, but it without a generally agreed system of defining the major types, confusion would reign. Ukuleles are named according to their scale lengths. It is a well established system. If you wish to change that system, to one based upon the size of the body, then perhaps you will explain how your new system works, and how it helps to avoid confusion.

The words I have quoted above are oxymoronic. A soprano with a concert neck is not a soprano - it can't be, it has the scale length of a concert. It could be described as a concert with a soprano body, if you must.

Anyway, call 'em whatever you like.

Peace and love.

John Colter

stevepetergal
09-06-2014, 03:33 PM
"A soprano with a concert neck is a long-neck soprano. A soprano with a tenor neck is a long-neck soprano."

Ukuleles are named according to their scale lengths. It is a well established system.

John Colter

Nonsense. There's no need to explain the system you call new, because it's very old. This thread is the first I've ever heard of what you call a "well established system". Maybe your system does exist. Perhaps it's regional or something(?) but I've never heard of it. Ohana, KoAloha, Mya Moe, Kamaka,....The list goes on. As long as long-neck sopranos have existed, they've been called long-neck or super sopranos (at least by their builders). In fact, isn't Kamaka the very oldest existing manufacturer of genuine ukuleles? Calling a long-neck soprano a long-neck or super soprano may be new to you, but I think it's pretty well established, too. As I say, you can call yours a short-neck concert or tenor. I'm not offended, but there's no need to correct the people who are just as correct as you are.

I think you should save your admonitions for Kamaka. Please, send Chuck Moore a strongly worded letter while you're at it. Like Kanile'a, he calls his a super soprano. Let the spankings begin!!

BlackBearUkes
09-06-2014, 03:45 PM
To Ukantor: I 100% aggree with you calling the size of a uke by the scale length and have tried to educate the general public into why this should be so, but my argument has fallen on deaf ears, so I have given up this discussion. There now seems to be every possible concoction of body sizes, scale lengths and whatever you can think of with no regard for common sense, and that's just the way it is.

Ukulelia
09-06-2014, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the replies. I will do some more checking around... I want a small pineapple body, with tenor neck, and cedar/rosewood combo. Koa just isn't my thing. And I don't have a "custom" budget, otherwise I wouldn't ask about doing all this work. Odds are I'll go for it sooner or later and see how the uke holds up. There is no K in my future, but Mainland I can swing. Hey Mike, if you're listening, the red cedar long neck pineapple would fill a niche with a tenor neck too. I can't possibly be the only one to go for that.

Ukulelia
09-06-2014, 03:57 PM
Coolkayaker said, "You are right, Sam."

In what way was Sam right? Nobody said that KoAloha have not made a tenor ukulele with a soprano sized body. They have - that is indisputable. Sam is wrong in referring to it as a soprano. A soprano has a scale length of 13"; a concert is 15"; a tenor is 17". That too is indisputable, although the figures are approximate, and can vary by a small amount.

John Colter.

Totally agree. I'd call what I'm looking for a tenor pineapple, naming scale and body respectively. But since no one can agree on what to call them and builders are all over the map with labels and names, well it seems the thing still needs to be spelled out completely.

Ukulelia
09-06-2014, 04:09 PM
Would it be too much to ask you to fight on your own time and answer the original question? I believe only one of you has done that, saying the bracing on a small body may not be enough, and the bridge would be too far back. Both of which I understand.

Might I also point out that there are Fleas with tenor scale... Fortunately or unfortunately, I like cedar as a tonewood, and that would take a Flea above what I would pay to try the experiment on another pineapple.

I see Ohana has a tenor neck soprano. Tempting, but again there's the pineapple factor - I like them.

And now I leave you to your feud, unless someone has constructive ideas to offer me.

BTW I remember now why I haven't visited UU in several years... A shame isn't it, that we can't listen to, and then answer each other civilly.

Jim Hanks
09-06-2014, 04:47 PM
I see your base was a mainland soprano. Did you contact Mike to see if a tenor neck might be possible straight from him? Can't hurt to ask.

Another option might be Sailor Brand. They seem willing to take on unusual requests but cost would probably be in the $400-500 range (just a guess). Less than a K but more than the Flea probably.

coolkayaker1
09-06-2014, 06:32 PM
I had always thought that, despite scale length, a long-neck soprano was called such because of the sound. I know that the tenor-necked soprano KoAloha that I owned still sounded like a soprano ukulele. (One can judge for themselves with Corey's video in the HMS link that I provided in the post below; a soprano sound).

I did not know that Sailor made super-sops or long-necked sops or tenor-necked sops, Jim. Thanks for the idea (as I am in the market for a tenor-necked soprano, too). I'll have to learn more about the Sailor brand.

If KoAloha did not stop making the T2, I will likely buy one from them for a couple of reasons: I may be able to get a "blem" at a discount from retail (I won't be foolish enough to sell it again so it won't matter), and if the soundboard dishes from the higher string tensions, they do have the Better Than Weather Warranty. I think MGM, in the video I linked, mentions that they should use Worth concert strings (I think that's the Worth string codes that he mentions), believe it or not. Perhaps lower tension using those, but he's pretty specific about that fact. Finally, perhaps I can persuade KoAloha to place lighter weight tuners for me, as Daniel suggested (and even then it'd be head heavy), although I don't know if they will (or leave the tuners off and I'll put any cost savings into the Gotoh UPTs myself).

Here's Pippin's review of the KSM-T2 in his magazine on page 15.
http://www.tricornpublications.com/issue15.pdf

Loads to think about. Do let us know what you choose to buy, ukulelia. I see that you prefer other woods to koa, so KoAloha is out for your needs. Someone (Duane, who makes great ukes at Black Bear and replied below, perhaps) will make you a doozy. Want to hear your thoughts when you get it.

Jim Hanks
09-07-2014, 04:01 AM
I did not know that Sailor made super-sops or long-necked sops or tenor-necked sops, Jim. Thanks for the idea (as I am in the market for a tenor-necked soprano, too). I'll have to learn more about the Sailor brand.

They make a concert-neck sop "standard" and UR had one listed. I had asked about a 16" version and they said they could do it for pittance more than the standard ($375 instead of $360 I think). (I went another direction with that project but I'm still waiting on it, so who know, I might come back to the SB yet.) I did not ask about a 17" sop but my guess is they could do it too.

Dan Uke
09-07-2014, 04:56 AM
They make a concert-neck sop "standard" and UR had one listed. I had asked about a 16" version and they said they could do it for pittance more than the standard ($375 instead of $360 I think). (I went another direction with that project but I'm still waiting on it, so who know, I might come back to the SB yet.) I did not ask about a 17" sop but my guess is they could do it too.

16" sounds good. Kamaka's Ohta San is 16".

sam13
09-07-2014, 03:32 PM
Hey all ...

I was referring to KoAloha's Long-neck soprano with the Tenor neck because that is how the site refers to it. Simply. I understand both sides of the "discussion" and appreciate your different point of views.

The more I play different ukes, the more I like what I have ... so I will probably not bother with a Long-Neck Soprano whether it is with a Concert or Tenor neck which might technically make it something else but ... um, I just like the sound of a tenor and Baritone.

Peace and love.

stevepetergal
09-11-2014, 02:15 AM
It seems to me that the soprano, concert, tenor, baritone labels are simply sales tool's. Does it really matter?
Then, if you've got a 14" scale instrument, can you call it a soprano or is it a mezzo? Is your 15 1/4" scale Kanile'a a concert or a festival? If it's a festival, what is the Ohta Sahn (16")? A festival or a contra-tenor?

BlackBearUkes
09-11-2014, 02:33 PM
It seems to me that the soprano, concert, tenor, baritone labels are simply sales tool's. Does it really matter?
Then, if you've got a 14" scale instrument, can you call it a soprano or is it a mezzo? Is your 15 1/4" scale Kanile'a a concert or a festival? If it's a festival, what is the Ohta Sahn (16")? A festival or a contra-tenor?

If you were a builder you wouldn't even ask this question, "does it matter." It all matters because scale length determines the stress on the top, neck and body, bridge placement, air cavity on the body, etc., etc. You can't just stick any old neck on any old body and call it a success. Lots of junk out there IMO, with no thought to the design.

southcoastukes
09-12-2014, 11:12 AM
Would it be too much to ask you to fight on your own time and answer the original question? I believe only one of you has done that, saying the bracing on a small body may not be enough, and the bridge would be too far back. Both of which I understand.

Might I also point out that there are Fleas with tenor scale... Fortunately or unfortunately, I like cedar as a tonewood, and that would take a Flea above what I would pay to try the experiment on another pineapple.

I see Ohana has a tenor neck soprano. Tempting, but again there's the pineapple factor - I like them.

And now I leave you to your feud, unless someone has constructive ideas to offer me.

BTW I remember now why I haven't visited UU in several years... A shame isn't it, that we can't listen to, and then answer each other civilly.

We build a lot of long scale instruments. I could likely help you with this. Whether it will work well, however, depends on how you want to string and play it. What do you have in mind?

As far as the rest, side discussions are part of forum life. Many times they turn out to be enlightening. Of course the "civil" part should go along with it.