Why build or buy a ukulele made from restricted or endangered wood?

Why not? I mean, if the wood was cut before the law restricted it, what is the harm? The tree is already dead.
 
Why not? I mean, if the wood was cut before the law restricted it, what is the harm? The tree is already dead.

Some of the trees listed are at risk but are not yet legally restricted - would you build/buy a ukulele from these woods? I don't think I would want to give my money to anyone who had been part of a process which meant a tree was cut down which was becoming rare, particularly when there are alternatives available.
 
I know of one builder that tries get his wood (koa) from fallen trees etc.

If someone is absolutely set on using something like Koa (though I'm not sure why they would be..) that makes sense to me :)
 
Some of the trees listed are at risk but are not yet legally restricted - would you build/buy a ukulele from these woods? I don't think I would want to give my money to anyone who had been part of a process which meant a tree was cut down which was becoming rare, particularly when there are alternatives available.

Martin makes a uke out of plywood (basically). Several people make them out of non-threatened woods. Rick Turner is one famous for it. Byron Barnes prefers it (though he is not well know to UU). Mya Moe offers a sustainable line. I'm sure there are others.

The threatened woods I own are either vintage, fallen, reclaimed, or from sources that are replanting. I feel no guilt. Why do I own them- sound, tradition, look, and many other reasons. Plus, trees regrow when managed correctly. No one is poaching trees to supply the wood on my behalf and I follow all applicable laws.

If you chose not to use them, I have no problem with that. If you oppose unsustainable practices, then we have common ground. I believe there is nothing wrong with choosing woods that are (or were at the time) legal.
 
African black wood is quickly being depleted and there are groups out there who are trying to bolster the species. I've read a story that they are even growing it in Florida now (but I can't locate the grower online). That gives hope to clarinet players like me.

I am sad to see rosewood and sandalwood on the CITES list. I'm glad that acacia koa is not on the list and is listed as a species of "least concern" - makes me thing that they are working on sustaining the species.
 
If you oppose unsustainable practices, then we have common ground.

Yes, we have common ground (an appropriate metaphor too!) :) The reason I phrased the title of this thread as a question is that I'm interested in all views. I am ashamed to say that the subject of sustainable wood choice is one I've only recently started to consider, so I'm genuinely interested in the knowledge other people have (which is almost certainly bound to be greater than my own).
 
This is certainly a conversation worth having but koa may not be part of it. The point has been made here and elsewhere that there isn't a shortage of koa trees but, rather, a shortage of trees that can be legally harvested. Many are protected simply because they grow on land where harvesting isn't legal. Thus, the lumber is scarcer that the ukulele world and other users would like. Market forces drive the price up but not because there is a shortage for the same reason as many of the listed species, actual scarcity of growing trees of harvestable size.
 
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I'm glad that acacia koa is not on the list and is listed as a species of "least concern" - makes me thing that they are working on sustaining the species.

Yes, it would be good to have this confirmed - and to know which woods used in ukuleles are least threatened.
 
I know of one builder that tries get his wood (koa) from fallen trees etc.

Please, let's put this myth to rest. Koa is NOT endangered or restricted. It's just damned expensive because the demand I'd so high and the area where it's grown is relatively small. But you are correct, almost all of the koa being milled that I am familiar with is from downed trees. Some have been sitting on the forest floor for decades.
 
This is certainly a conversation worth having but koa may not be part of it. The point has been made here and elsewhere that there isn't a shortage of koa trees but, rather, a shortage of trees that can be legally harvested. Many are protected simply because they grow on land where harvesting isn't legal. Thus, the lumber is scarcer that the ukulele world and other users would like. Market forces drive the price up but not because there is a shortage for the same reason as many of the listed species, actual scarcity of growing and harvestable trees.

Ah, that's interesting. Thanks for that info saltytri.
 
Just an FYI, Bob Taylor of Taylor guitars has taken some really excellent positive steps to help sustain the supply of ebony in the world. Here is a link to his video on the project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY
 
Please, let's put this myth to rest. Koa is NOT endangered or restricted. It's just damned expensive because the demand I'd so high and the area where it's grown is relatively small. But you are correct, almost all of the koa being milled that I am familiar with is from downed trees. Some have been sitting on the forest floor for decades.

Yeah, I did not see it on the list or I missed it, I glanced through the link very quickly. But I have read that the remaining koa forests represent a last home for many rare, threatened & endangered species of birds, insects and plants.
 
Let us ignore for the moment the question of laws. Politicians have obscure and arcane reasons in the way write laws. Consider the peculiar Ukulele law in Salt Lake.

Let us ignore for the moment aesthetic issues. Beauty is an argument unto itself.

The Raison D'etre for craftsmen is the understanding and mastery of tools, techniques, and materials they work with. I know of no craftsman in any field who is not interested in the who, how, what, when and most importantly why of their craft. Wood in particular is a material that raises more questions than ever get answered.

The question of endangered and restricted species is of concern to craftsmen. The craftsmen are not generally the root of the problem here. Governments, Corporations, Insects and microbes are all much more of a problem here. Sustainability for renewable resources is much more important issues. Did you know that it takes two trees to produce the amount of air you require to breathe? How many trees have you planted? How many of those trees have survived? In my part of the world every farmer has a wood lot. The wood lot has many incidental uses but the economic use of a wood lot is that it can be selectively harvested every 35 years or so. The proceeds from this harvest will finance the college education of a couple of kids, when properly managed.

Koa has been mentioned here. By definition Koa only grows in Hawaii. This makes it a rare wood. Koa grows all over the Hawaiian islands in most all climactic regions. It is a fast growing weed. The types of koa used for instruments is not in the weed class. Different sizes of tree are required for different purposes. It takes an older, bigger tree to produce guitars then it does to produce ukuleles. Stressed trees often provide wood of particular interest to luthiers and other fine wood workers. Insect infestations producing burls are similarly of interest. These types of Koa Are significantly more rare than the "weeds". All this rarity creates a demand push on the supply of koa which is particularly annoying to luthiers. They may be craftsmen but they still have to support their families. The luthiers I've communicated with have indicated that Koa in Hawaii is not harvested systematically anymore. ie they obtain their supplies from standing dead wood or suppliers. Some luthiers refuse to deal with suppliers who take advantage of demand push pricing. Some luthiers with political clout lobby for restrictive legislation. I think the craftmen who deal with rare woods should form a co-operative to systematically and renewably produce the rare woods they require.
 
OP brings up a good point. This concerns me too, and I'm relieved Hawaiian koa isn't on the list. If anyone has details about how its managed, I'd like to hear more about it.

Living where I do, I have a strong opinion that buying anything of Brazilian wood, rosewood or otherwise, is bad. People have clear cut a France-sized portion of Amazon rainforest in the last X number of years. I took a train across France once. It was a long trip and that was only part of the country. France is enormous. That rainforest is gone.

I offer this opinion respectfully. And I'd just like to remind that buying used instruments is sustainable.
 
There is a small book, (novella maybe), called "The man who planted Trees". It concerns the deforestation of the Rhone Valley in France. A great story and germane to this discussion. Much of the problem in the rainforests is habitat destruction. The trees will come back ultimately. Williamsport PA was the 10th largest city in USA in the eighteen eighties, during the lumber boom. Nearby Pine Creek was a muddy treeless wasteland by 1918. By ~1940 Pine Creek was fully reforested naturally. The difference is the Pine Creek Valley is mostly Spruce. Of course spruce is an excellent tone wood.
 
I've heard people say before that Koa has to be grown in Hawaii, to be real Koa. Acacia Koa can be grown elsewhere in the world and still produce the same wood because we are talking abut the same species of tree. It's like arguing it's only a Colorado Spruce if it's grown in Colorado.
Habitat destruction through logging is what people should be most concerned about.

Mango is one of my favorite woods because it is typically harvested from fruit farms to make way for younger trees that will produce more fruit. So it is pretty eco-friendly.
 
Just a comment re. Acacia koa. It is not defined as "koa" by where it usually grows anymore than Tasmanian blackwood (Acacia melanoxylon) is defined by being from Tasmania. Koa could grow elsewhere there is a similar climate and reasonably close soil conditions if anyone wanted to. I'm surprised that it's not being plantation grown in Costa Rica. Koa is not a location, it's a species.

Eat fewer hamburgers if you want to put less stress on tropical hardwood forests. Support any replanting efforts. Go out and plant a tree. Develop a love for woods like walnut, maple, and cherry. Do not support the clear cutting of the Tongas Forest.
 
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