Vintage Martin "butcherblock"??

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Gmoney

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I searched & couldn't find any mention, so gonna post this here. On Facebook some other members of the Southeast Ukers have been discussing the following video from a gentleman called "PeteyMack64" on YouTube here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtw2QEyAAQ

The gentleman has decided that vintage Martin ukuleles were constructed from what he calls "butcher block" pieces of wood instead of either matched pairs or a single piece of mahogany. I find that very hard to believe, so thought I'd post the video here for comment.

I'm not going to disassemble my late 20's Style 0 to disprove the theory, but thought I'd post it here in case one or more of our luthier friends who may have investigated these older ukes (Timbuck comes to mind!) might have a definitive answer.

No disrespect to the owner of the video; I just personally think its disinformation.

Mahalo
 
He does not know what he's talking about; this is utter bulls..t.

In the first place, he doesn't understand what "butcher block" is. "Butcher block" is all end grain surfaced wood laminated together with dozens and dozens of pieces. The reason? Butcher and kitchen knives do not dull cutting meat on butcher block because the blades do not have to cut through wood fibers under the food; rather, the blade edge parts the end grain fibers which then close back up. Result? Much less blade sharpening needed. Breadboards are not usually butcherblock made, and they are often incorrectly called butcherblock. But that's just the start of what's wrong here...

It is remotely possible that there are wood joints in there, but it's highly unlikely. For one thing, it's too labor intensive to do what he suggests considering how easy it was, even in the First Great Depression, to get large pieces of Honduras mahogany. For another thing, "butcher block" or "bread board/cutting board" construction of Martin tops, backs, and sides comes up in not one single other reference to Martin ukes or guitars where they would have been even more likely to do it.

Mahogany grain just does that...there can be very straight fiber grain lines in the stuff.

BTW, we can still get Honduras mahogany, though it usually comes from Brazil or Belize now.

This guy is whacked...
 
One piece tops are quite common and can be considered traditional for sopranos and concerts. You'll see them sometimes on tenors, but you're more likely to see book-matches on tenors and baritones. It's just a matter of how big the clear pieces of wood are.

Ditto with violin backs...there are a lot of one piece backs and a lot of bookmatched seamed backs.

Butcher block? Only on some solid body electrics.
 
My initial thought was that Petey was full of malarkey (to use the polite term) and/or stunningly misinformed. I just checked my 30's style 0 and it's definitely one piece top and back. My C1K is obviously bookmatched top and back.
 
I think 'butcherblock' is just a phrase. I have seen videos stating these have more than one piece of wood for the top. I think if you pause at a good moment you see it. Pretty sure i have seen modern reviews stating the same. Where is Petey!
 
I have a vintage Martin O, no "lines" on mine
 
I wonder if the one he has was modified? or a factory blem?
 
You think butcherblock is just a phrase. I don't. I think that if the word had not been so debased by incorrect usage that it would actually still mean what it is to more people. To a butcher, the word has real meaning, and they know the why of it. To any legitimate woodworker, the word has a very specific meaning. Sloppy use of language leads to really poor communication and an inability to convey thoughts.

Real butchers chop meat on real butcherblocks. Real butcherblocks have faces that are all end grain. It's really simple, and it's utterly logical. Why not use the language correctly as it applies to a very particular assemblage of wood blocks?

Martin tops are not made like butcherblocks and never were! And I've never seen a Martin uke with more than one joint in the center, and that's not a butcherblock. It is easy to get it into your head that a grain line is a glue joint. The way to see glue joints in a top, bookmatched or not, is not to look directly at them but rather along the line of the joint or purported joint with the wood held nearly horizontally. You can then usually see diverging or converging grain: ////|\\\\ or \\\\|////

Go to your local butcher's shop and ask to see the butcherblock. Keep your fingers out of the way...
 
Show me the lines Petey.....lol - despite the wild butcher block theories I loved the accent and his playing and singing was pretty good too.
 
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Howdy everyone.. Apparently I have unintentionally started a discussion about older Martins... Let me start off by saying that I never claimed to be an expert.. Ever...my statements were just my observations... I will be the first to admit that I can easily be wrong.. I don't personally understand the open hostility about me and my ignorance because as I said I never made any claims of expertise other than I work with wood... Am I a trained skilled craftsman, no... But I have made many things and done countless repairs of instruments... I sincerely apologize for the misuse of the term 'butcher block' all I meant was that the top and back on my old Uke seems to have some pieces laminated together and that seemed the easiest explanation to get what my thoughts were at that moment. I have included a picture of the back of my S1 for your evaluation and maybe you can understand how I came to this conclusion? I am now proceeding to go to my YouTube account and delete the video...once again I apologize for misrepresenting the older Martins...
 
A lot of instruments being marketed today as part of the mahogany family are Sapele. Sapele has very distinct alternating patterns in the grain that change as you move the instrument in relation to light. I can see where this may look like multiple pieces of wood rather than a single piece. As for the older Honduran mahogany, there can be some variance in the grain, but not so much as in Sapele.

I own a 20's Martin Style 2 and know it's solid wood. My Koaloha Opio is Sapele and although solid wood, the alternating grain patterns are easily visible.

Mistakes are common and few know everything there is to know about any given subject. Although I didn't agree with your statements on the wood, I wouldn't think of slamming you for it. I enjoyed your playing, singing, and enthusiasm for the subject. I hope you stick around the forum well beyond this thread.
 
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Howdy everyone.. Apparently I have unintentionally started a discussion about older Martins... Let me start off by saying that I never claimed to be an expert.. Ever...my statements were just my observations... I will be the first to admit that I can easily be wrong.. I don't personally understand the open hostility about me and my ignorance because as I said I never made any claims of expertise other than I work with wood... Am I a trained skilled craftsman, no... But I have made many things and done countless repairs of instruments... I sincerely apologize for the misuse of the term 'butcher block' all I meant was that the top and back on my old Uke seems to have some pieces laminated together and that seemed the easiest explanation to get what my thoughts were at that moment. I have included a picture of the back of my S1 for your evaluation and maybe you can understand how I came to this conclusion? I am now proceeding to go to my YouTube account and delete the video...once again I apologize for misrepresenting the older Martins...

Don't sweat it Petey - I stared at my style 0 and the Mahogany grain is perfectly straight at some places and could be perceived as put together.
 
Who is this petey Mack dude, I typed in peteymack64 and just got videos, so I typed in
Petey Mack and got some grey haired guy playing the ukulele at UWC, is that the guy you
All are talking about? Just wondering?? Anyways petey welcome to UU if you that grey
Hair guy playing the ukulele, hope you stick around. Happy strummings
 
My Martin OXK has a Stratabond neck that some people would look at and think " butcherblock " . Funny , the body is like a kitchen countertop and the neck is like butcherblock .
 
View attachment 72975
Howdy everyone.. Apparently I have unintentionally started a discussion about older Martins... Let me start off by saying that I never claimed to be an expert.. Ever...my statements were just my observations... I will be the first to admit that I can easily be wrong.. I don't personally understand the open hostility about me and my ignorance because as I said I never made any claims of expertise other than I work with wood... Am I a trained skilled craftsman, no... But I have made many things and done countless repairs of instruments... I sincerely apologize for the misuse of the term 'butcher block' all I meant was that the top and back on my old Uke seems to have some pieces laminated together and that seemed the easiest explanation to get what my thoughts were at that moment. I have included a picture of the back of my S1 for your evaluation and maybe you can understand how I came to this conclusion? I am now proceeding to go to my YouTube account and delete the video...once again I apologize for misrepresenting the older Martins...

Hey Pete! Keep doing what you are doing. I always enjoy your videos. And, no worries, Brother, we don't all get our panties in a wad around here!
 
That's right, Jenny, some here prefer to let misinformation stand because it's just not nice to correct people, right?
 
That's right, Jenny, some here prefer to let misinformation stand because it's just not nice to correct people, right?

Of course you a right to correct the uninformed - I wonder if you watched the clip at all as it helped me to really like the guy and see the human side of it all.

You do have a huge wealth of knowledge and I am very humbled to read and learn from your vast experiences you share on here Mr. Turner. Sometimes you come across like a superior luthier-cyborg devoid of empathy and forgiveness for the common strummer - considering the majority on here is close to clueless about ukuleles in comparison to you and the few other SLC's on here I understand how frustrating it must be at times but please bear with them/us/me and remain open.
 
OK, I apologize for having 51 years in as a pro luthier and woodworker and musician. I'm really sorry that I've handled literally thousands of board feet of mahogany including Honduras, Sapele, Khaya, and Cuban. I am devastated that I know two of the guys (Dick Boak and Richard Johnston) who literally wrote the books on Martin history. I should be utterly reviled for being friends with two of the major uke collector/historians in the US (Sandor Nagyszalanczy and Rick McKee). Sorry I know how to do research on the Internet. I'm really ashamed of knowing this stuff. If I had to do it all over again, I'd never have written technical articles for all the magazines I've worked for, nor would I bother to share what I have worked really hard to learn with others. And I'd never suggest that everyone here could wait just a minute to post some personal revelation and go do a Google search to check up on what they think they have discovered. But there you are, and here I is! :) Yep, you've got someone on your hands who wants to tell it like it is and shut down misinformation on lutherie subjects as fast as he can. Whoopee!

I do think the uke world could toughen up a bit in order to get closer to what is real and what is not. Ukulele folks seem to want to believe just about anything that is presented as truth by anyone who seems nice. You guys should see how it gets over on other forums like the Banjo Hangout or the Mandolin Cafe where a lot of folks are real historians about all this lutherie stuff. It's not all Kumbaya, but it's very real and nobody gets away with posting obvious misinformation. And the disputes can get a bit testy, but everyone hangs in and gets to learn the next level down and the next one up.

So I'll keep on throwing the monkey wrenches in when I see errors here. Please feel free to toss 'em back at me if you catch me in something wrong. You guys need a Simon Cowell here to keep things interesting and to keep it a little warmer here.
 
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