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thejumpingflea
02-27-2009, 02:28 PM
Hey guys,

I know VERY little about all this stuff, but i think I may have a problem here. I had put on Aquila Strings on my Kanile'a Tenor so I could have more projection than I had with my Worth Browns on it. (The E string on the uke with the Worths also went +18 sharp on the 12th fret and I thought the flourocarbon might have stretched oddly) So I get the Aquila strings on it, and let them settle for a couple days, but I was awestruck on how awful the intonation was. The G string went up +22 on the 12th fret (it was about 5 with the Worth strings), the C was +9 (it was +2 or so with the Worths), the E was +10 (better then it was with the worths) and the A was +9 (it was only +2 with the worths).

So I decide to stick with the worths as the uke is very playable (the E string was a pain) and I take off the Aquilas. Then the problems get worse.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee239/thejumpingflea/DSC_0485.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee239/thejumpingflea/DSC_0486.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee239/thejumpingflea/DSC_0486.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee239/thejumpingflea/DSC_0483.jpg

The saddle popped right off and I assume the fiber like material underneath is the undersaddle pickup. Now I tried placing the saddle back on, but it popped right off!


So right now it is just sitting on my bed and waiting so I can know what to do with it. ANY help is greatly appreciated with both of these issues. Thank you!

bbycrts
02-27-2009, 03:06 PM
This isn't a very educated answer, but I was under the impression that it was the tension of the strings that holds the saddle on - with all strings off, it is pretty free to slip out of its slot. I think you just need to put it back in place and restring over it while holding it in its slot.

Lanark
02-27-2009, 03:44 PM
I had a sort of similar problem when I sanded the saddle on my Kelii soprano to lower the string height. I'd thought I was careful, but the intonation was all out of whack.

What I eventually figured out was that there was a little play in the seating of the saddle and it had been pulled ever so minutely forward by the string tension which made everything go way off kilter. Snapped it back into proper place & everything was hunky dory again.

I would imagine that may be some of where your strings may be going wrong with the undersaddle perhaps preventing the saddle from seating exactly.

(I also had intonation issues with a Pono with PKS-2E when I changed strings. I'd pulled the bone saddle out to look at the pick up and then mistakenly put it back in backwards. But I'm assuming you're perhaps smarter than I am about that stuff. And there was no clear front or back on carved bone...)

But wouldn't string tension keep it from popping off? Have you thought of stringing it up loosely, then slipping in the saddle and tightening?

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
02-27-2009, 06:07 PM
Matt, bbycrts is correct about the sting tension keeping the saddle in it's slot. In the case of a pickup, you want the saddle to be loose enough so that it moves freely in the slot but not so loose so that it leans when tension is applied. Make sure the saddle is not leaning when strung. That could be your problem. Simply restring and make sure nothing's getting hung up anywhere and that the pickup element is laying flat. Adjust the saddle to that it is perpendicular to the bridge.
If that doesn't work, try this. You seem to be generally sharp across the board. At least you're not both sharp and flat. Filing a saddle bevel that, in effect will lengthen the scale, just might fix this. Hard for me to explain without a picture, but if you can imagine the crown of the saddle being an "O", then you need to file an angle that would look like a "A" where the apex of the "A" is leaning away from the top of the uke.
I probably didn't do a very good job explaining. I talk with my hands better.

Nuke-ulele
02-27-2009, 07:15 PM
Matt-

I hope that you get it figured out...indeed that strip is the under saddle pickup and the saddle just sits in there loose. I always had Worths on it, and never noticed a problem with intonation, so I hope the feedback you have gotten gets it sorted out. You would get more projection with Worth hard clears, rather than the browns, too.

GX9901
02-27-2009, 08:04 PM
I assume the saddle is the original one from Kanile'a. First off, I think it's perfectly normal that the saddle comes off without the strings holding it down. The saddle slot on my Kanile'a super tenor looks pretty shallow, so having the pickup element sandwiched in there means the saddle is pretty thin. I can totally see it coming right out without string tension holding it in.

If the saddle is the standard Kanile'a saddle, the apex of the "A" Chuck Moore is talking about would normally be pointing toward the fretboard of the ukulele as installed by Kanile'a. By reversing the saddle, you can achieve what Chuck is talking about with regards to the apex pointing away from the fretboard of the uke.

I'm guessing that when you switched strings, the saddle might not have been properly seated in the slot. Check to see if the bottom of the saddle is flat against the pickup elememt. Let us know if you get this issue resolved.

Kekani
02-27-2009, 09:30 PM
Just as a show of support for Joe, I think its unfair that the title of this thread is "Kanile`a issues." For the many players that don't know what drives your issues (unlike those that do, like Chuck, GX9901 and bbycrts), this could very well seem that a Kanile`a is not up to task, which is not true.

Besides the good suggestions you've had so far, I have one more to address that may cause you an issue if it is what it seems - from the pics, it seems as though the end of the UST (with the black tip) doesn't go far enough past the first pin. Just be sure to pull it up a little bit because the LRBaggs Element usually doesn't pick up the first 1/8" or so from the end, and you may end up with balance problems when plugged in. This may also contribute to some seating problems (but not likely in your case).

Dominator
03-01-2009, 04:05 PM
Make sure the saddle is not leaning when strung. That could be your problem.

Hi Chuck,
That Baggs element looks like it could be a Mi-Si Acoustic Trio system. The instructions for installation actually call for carefully sanding a bevel on the bottom of the saddle so that the saddle does lean forward "slightly" when under string pressure. I've installed 3 of them this way and intonated the saddle after the pickup install and have not had any intonation problems.

Another thing I do is I drill holes at each end of the saddle slot angling slightly to the outside of the uke so I can run a small amount of the element back inside the instrument. This keeps the element from slipping inside the sound box when removing the saddle. My hole was a tad too large and in a split second it was inside the uke. I hate when that happens :mad:.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
03-01-2009, 05:36 PM
I defer to you Dominic on the Baggs element as I have no experience with them at all, so I have no idea why they'd want you to lean the saddle......
I install nothing but Fishman elements in conjunction with the Mi-Si Acoustic Trio, only because I am familiar with them and they work well. They are also a rigid element and are in no danger of slipping back inside the sound box.

Renaissance-Man
03-02-2009, 03:32 AM
A few key points of the L.R. Baggs element installation (copied verbatim):


The slot must be a minimum of .125" (1/8") deep, but we suggest a depth of
.187" (3/16") to avoid excessive saddle tilt.

A saddle that fits correctly in the slot will have a slight forward tilt under string pressure. It is necessary to compensate for this angle by intentionally sanding a slight tilt in the bottom of the saddle so that when it leans forward it sits flat on the pickup.

Check your bridge slot depth. It may be to shallow, and why your saddle is popping-out. Compensate for the forward tilt, by sanding a slight tilt into the bottom of the saddle, to fix your intonation issues.

Nuke-ulele
03-02-2009, 05:10 AM
Hi Chuck,
That Baggs element looks like it could be a Mi-Si Acoustic Trio system. The instructions for installation actually call for carefully sanding a bevel on the bottom of the saddle so that the saddle does lean forward "slightly" when under string pressure. I've installed 3 of them this way and intonated the saddle after the pickup install and have not had any intonation problems.

Another thing I do is I drill holes at each end of the saddle slot angling slightly to the outside of the uke so I can run a small amount of the element back inside the instrument. This keeps the element from slipping inside the sound box when removing the saddle. My hole was a tad too large and in a split second it was inside the uke. I hate when that happens :mad:.

Dom, you are 100% correct- Mi-Si Acoustic Trio system. Dave Talsma installed this one and did exactly what you said, and installed it with Worth Browns in place. It didn't have any intonation issues when it was done.

thejumpingflea
03-03-2009, 03:34 PM
So I have been talking to Bill at Kanile'a and it sounds like I will be shipping it to him for repairs. He said that he may have to move the bridge. Oh well, it happens.

As a side note, when I did put the bridge back on, the sound plugged in was all screwy. I did charge the MiSi pickup so I think this uke just needs a check-up so it can be playing to its max again soon.