Daniel Ho's comment about friction tuners

Kayak Jim

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Speaking of compensated saddles (in the recent thread), I was just reading Daniel Ho's article in the Spring 2015 Ukulele magazine (the one with Victoria Vox on the cover). There he says:

“It is highly unlikely that you'll find a compensated saddle on a ukulele with friction tuners because their 1:1 ratio makes it virtually impossible to tune the open strings, which are the fundamental pitch references.” (italics mine)

Now I’m neither an advanced player nor a luthier but this was surprise to me on two fronts- that it is “impossible” to tune a uke with friction tuners, and that there is no reason to use a compensated saddle in that case.

Huh? Help me out here.
 
Hi Kayak Jim,

I am no expert by far, but my Kiwayas with a compensated saddle and friction tuners appear to tune fine.
 
“It is highly unlikely that you'll find a compensated saddle on a ukulele with friction tuners because their 1:1 ratio makes it virtually impossible to tune the open strings, which are the fundamental pitch references.” (italics mine)

Um...pardon?

could you repeat that.jpg
 
This is one man's opinion and not a very accurate one, it doesn't even make sense.

“It is highly unlikely that you'll find a compensated saddle on a ukulele with friction tuners because their 1:1 ratio makes it virtually impossible to tune the open strings, which are the fundamental pitch references.” (italics mine)
 
Daniel Ho is an extremely accomplished musician and producer. I sincerely doubt he is misinformed. I wonder if he is turning to an entirely different accuracy level and therein lies the rub.
 
He may seek a higher accuracy level but his statement is about the availability of ukes with both friction tuners and a compensated saddle. My Kiwaya has both. Of this I am certain. I may have a low level of accuracy in tuning but I can see just fine.
 
Speaking of compensated saddles (in the recent thread), I was just reading Daniel Ho's article in the Spring 2015 Ukulele magazine (the one with Victoria Vox on the cover). There he says:

“It is highly unlikely that you'll find a compensated saddle on a ukulele with friction tuners because their 1:1 ratio makes it virtually impossible to tune the open strings, which are the fundamental pitch references.” (italics mine)

Now I’m neither an advanced player nor a luthier but this was surprise to me on two fronts- that it is “impossible” to tune a uke with friction tuners, and that there is no reason to use a compensated saddle in that case.

Huh? Help me out here.

Hmmmm. Two of Kamakas came with friction tuners AND compensated saddles. Both have spot-on intonation, according to my uke instructor and my clip-on tuner (both of whom I trust more than I do my own ears). However - two Kamakas that I no longer have had friction tuners BUT NOT compensated saddles. Both had intonation issues as you went higher up the neck - so obvious that even my not-so-keen ear could detect them.
 
Daniel Ho is an extremely accomplished musician and producer. I sincerely doubt he is misinformed. I wonder if he is turning to an entirely different accuracy level and therein lies the rub.

Accuracy level ... an on pitch "E" is an on pitch "E". His statement makes no sense whatsoever, therein lies the rub ;)
 
I'm not buying it either. Until I'm enlightened, the statement makes no sense at all to me. Maybe he's saying that it's so hard to accurately tune an uke with friction tuners that compensating the saddle would be futile. But I'm not buying that one either.
 
Accuracy level ... an on pitch "E" is an on pitch "E". His statement makes no sense whatsoever, therein lies the rub ;)

Ha, true. But that's like saying a square is a square. My point was maybe it matters if you're using, say a Peterson SC-1 Stroboclip tuner (what I understand to be a gold standard) vs. a Snark (a great bargain for its price but not as accurate).
 
I don't have enough knowledge about this stuff to have an educated opinion (and I only have two ukuleles with friction tuners - a Kamaka concert and a tenor pineapple ukulele from Rick Turner's ukulele building class). I don't know much it will help, but I thought it would be fair to see the statement quoted by the OP in the context of the statements surrounding it in Dan Ho's article (entitled "The State of the Ukulele"). For convenience, I've italicized the statement quoted by the OP.

"One fascinating indicator of the evolution of ukulele design is intonation. While a big, beautiful tone is impressive, if it is out of tune, it would be the instrumental equivalent of a tone-deaf singer with a huge operatic voice. Accurate intonation could elevate a $30 laminated sapele ukulele to recording-quality status. Conversely, poor intonation can relegate a Brazilian rosewood ukulele to a beach instrument you don’t mind leaving in your
hot car while you surf.

"Precise intonation is not easily achieved on a low-tension, short-scale instrument. As I browse the walls of ukuleles in music stores, I notice that this tricky issue is being addressed—enter geared tuners, which don’t slip like the traditionally equipped friction tuners. With ratios of up to 17:1 (17 turns of the handle equal one revolution of the tuning peg), geared tuners allow minute adjustments of string tension to accurately tune open strings.

"In recent years, more and more brands are fine-tuning the intonation of fretted notes with compensated saddles, which are shaped to lengthen and shorten individual strings at the bridge (lengthening the string flattens the fretted pitches and shorting the string raises them). It is highly unlikely that you’ll find a compensated saddle on a ukulele with friction tuners, because their 1:1 ratio makes it virtually impossible to tune the open strings, which are the fundamental pitch references.

Refinements like these have inspired musicians to explore the uke’s expanded potential. Now that the ukulele is capable of playing everything from pure unisons to dissonant extended chords, its repertoire blooms in every direction. You can find printed music and recordings in almost every genre. Music supervisors are regularly programming ukulele music in films and TV programs. Commercial agencies recognize the value of the ukulele’s happy vibe when selling products. As arts-education budgets are cut, the relatively inexpensive ukulele is finding its way into elementary school classrooms
across the States, as has long been the case in Canada. Instrumentalists from across the musical spectrum have incorporated the ukulele into their sound."
 
I'm not buying it either. Until I'm enlightened, the statement makes no sense at all to me. Maybe he's saying that it's so hard to accurately tune an uke with friction tuners that compensating the saddle would be futile. But I'm not buying that one either.

Is it possible he could be talking about the amount of time the string will stay in tune?

I'm grasping at straws here, I know.
 
I apologize for not being more careful with my wording. I shouldn't be making generalizations about compensated saddles and friction tuners. I'm sure there are 'ukuleles with friction tuners and accurate intonation.

On a personal note, I look for ukes that have unisons and octaves without beats, perfect 5ths - basically, intonation that produces accurate intervals. I don't have any ukuleles with perfect intonation, but I have two recording instruments that are very close. They have 18:1 tuners and I check tuning between every take as it changes with temperature and how they are being played (for example, if I bend the string slightly or press too hard, the pitch goes sharp). Pitch is not subjective, but its range of acceptability is.

The owners of Kiwaya are good friends of mine and their instruments are the gold standard of intonation. They QC every single instrument that leaves their shop!
 
Welcome to the forum. It is an honor to have you here!
 
Wow, Daniel Ho in the flesh! Welcome and hope to see you here more often.
 
Thank you, guys! I don't know why it took me so long. Guess I'm a little behind the times. Believe it or not, I still use a flip phone. But it is no ordinary flip phone, it is Ohta-san's old phone!
 
Welcome Daniel! Check in every now and then!
 
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