Inversions, Shapes and Positions

pluck

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I'm still pretty new to the ukulele. One thing I keep bumping into and can't quite get used to is (what appears to me to be) the use of the word "inversion" when actually talking about chord shapes and positions. In normal music theory "inversion" usually implies some specific concern for the relative positions of the notes within a chord. On the uke, we speak of changing inversions with no concern or even awareness of whether we are moving, say, from a first to third inversion or an noninverted voicing to a second inversion. We don't really care about the specific inversions but we seem to talk about inversions all the time. Seems to me it would be better to just say changing shapes.

I first noticed this looking thru Brad Bordessa's book. He keeps talking about "inversions" but nowhere did I notice him mentioning what inversions the specific shapes actually use.

Like I said, I'm kind of new so maybe I have things all messed up. If so, I'm sure someone will let me know.

Maybe I'm just being priggish. It happens.

Thanks.
 
I think that honestly they might mean just different chord positions and these chord positions throw up different .."inversions " or structures of the order the notes are played in..

GCEC 0001 1st position C

CEGC 5433 2nd position C....as you say just changing shapes.....I don't it really make much difference on a trebly little ukulele and sometimes believe that far too much theory is thrown at it ....but that's me happy as a pig in muck.....get as far as the 7th etc on a soprano...it really does not make a difference and beyond the 12th , well I think that I'm lucky to just keep the fingers of left and right hands apart ....:shaka:

I think that they mean chord position shapes....the inversion comes with the shape....


:uhoh:
 
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The very simple explanation my uke teacher gave me was that an inversion is a chord in which the root is not on the bottom (lowest note). Not sure how technically accurate this is; I just wanted a "big picture" explanation. But it makes sense, especially when factoring in reentrant vs. low G tuning.
 
CeeJay. I agree with you on all those counts. My next uke won't have frets above 12 so I won't have to think about it. It has occurred to me that on a uke the sound of proper inversions is probably irrelevant. It's best to grab the best shape that you can when you need it. I'm just get annoyed by using the term inversion because that's the way I am. A personal problem I guess.

Regarding Brad's book, he does encourage an awareness of which string the root lies on with each shape. I guess that would be a type of definition of inversion but I don't think it's the real one.
 
Yeah, technically a specific inversion has a designated bass note. So, a root inversion has the root of the chord as its lowest note, first inversion-the third, second-the fifth...
But on the ukulele we use the word, mostly, to designate a change, not to specify an inversion. We do change the inversion when we move a chord up to another position on the fretboard. You won't usually hear someone designating which inversion this is. More often we designate shapes. For example, change shapes of your G chord and you change the inversion as well (usually). But we don't commonly say "from first to second inversion" or "second to third". You don't have to use it if you don't want to. Go from one shape to another rather than from one inversion to another. (But, this is just a mental word game)
The thing to keep in mind is that Brad is absolutely correct when he uses the word as he does. Brad is possibly the best educated ukulele teacher we have. So, taking lessons from him, you'll have to get over it. If you asked an ukulele teacher to give you specific inversion designations for every chord, it would be one extra, completely unnecessary step. And even more problematic using re-entrant tuning!
 
But on the ukulele we use the word, mostly, to designate a change, not to specify an inversion. We do change the inversion when we move a chord up to another position on the fretboard. You won't usually hear someone designating which inversion this is. More often we designate shapes. For example, change shapes of your G chord and you change the inversion as well (usually). But we don't commonly say "from first to second inversion" or "second to third".

I hear "first position" or "second position" etc. sometimes - like CeeJay noted above; my instructor will do this. But more commonly from other players, I hear "play the C using the B-flat chord shape" or something along those lines.
 
Yeah, technically a specific inversion has a designated bass note. So, a root inversion has the root of the chord as its lowest note, first inversion-the third, second-the fifth...
But on the ukulele we use the word, mostly, to designate a change, not to specify an inversion. We do change the inversion when we move a chord up to another position on the fretboard. You won't usually hear someone designating which inversion this is. More often we designate shapes. For example, change shapes of your G chord and you change the inversion as well (usually). But we don't commonly say "from first to second inversion" or "second to third". You don't have to use it if you don't want to. Go from one shape to another rather than from one inversion to another. (But, this is just a mental word game)
The thing to keep in mind is that Brad is absolutely correct when he uses the word as he does. Brad is possibly the best educated ukulele teacher we have. So, taking lessons from him, you'll have to get over it. If you asked an ukulele teacher to give you specific inversion designations for every chord, it would be one extra, completely unnecessary step. And even more problematic using re-entrant tuning!

Clearly I need to just get over it. I can't expect to single handedly change 1000 years of uke history.
 
I hear "first position" or "second position" etc. sometimes - like CeeJay noted above; my instructor will do this. But more commonly from other players, I hear "play the C using the B-flat chord shape" or something along those lines.

Yes, I like this much better than "inversions". "Inversions" just seems like misusing a word with a very specific meaning. But as I said above, I'm getting over it.
 
Yeah, technically a specific inversion has a designated bass note. So, a root inversion has the root of the chord as its lowest note, first inversion-the third, second-the fifth...
But on the ukulele we use the word, mostly, to designate a change, not to specify an inversion. We do change the inversion when we move a chord up to another position on the fretboard. You won't usually hear someone designating which inversion this is. More often we designate shapes. For example, change shapes of your G chord and you change the inversion as well (usually). But we don't commonly say "from first to second inversion" or "second to third". You don't have to use it if you don't want to. Go from one shape to another rather than from one inversion to another. (But, this is just a mental word game)
The thing to keep in mind is that Brad is absolutely correct when he uses the word as he does. Brad is possibly the best educated ukulele teacher we have. So, taking lessons from him, you'll have to get over it. If you asked an ukulele teacher to give you specific inversion designations for every chord, it would be one extra, completely unnecessary step. And even more problematic using re-entrant tuning!

Yes .It's down to semantics I think ...the inversion occurs as and when you change position and shape of the chord ...so technically both are correct . I think also because ...now don't blast me if I get this not fully right ..most theory seems to be based on piano keyboard layout where there , arguably is no 1st 2nd 3rd POSITION* as the key board is laid out in blocks of octaves repeating and getting higher in pitch.

The inversions can be played in each octave exactly the same way and even straddle octaves if you start in the middle of one and finish the chord in the middle of the next . Perhaps the two terms are synonymous but apply particularly to specific instruments.

I think people can be forgiven for swapping one term with the other .
I also get Plucks slightly (he admitted it:nana:) compulsive desire to be strictly accurate in this matter ...


In England there are two football teams called Nottingham Forest (Nott'm Forest) and Nottinghamshire County (Nott's County) Woe betide anyone who calls either of them Notts Forest or Nottingham County.........it's subtle but distinct and I get Pluck's point of view.


* not as a fretted instrument player understands 1st 2nd etc
 
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Position refers to where your fretting hand is, on the fretboard. First position nearest the nut, second a bit farther up the neck, and so on. Using simple examples, a C chord in the first position would be 0003 (the "C" shape), in the second position it would be 5433, ( "B" shape).

To analyze these two further, the first one is a root inversion, the second is a first inversion. But, this is the case only using re-entrant tuning. Using a low G, the first position one is a second inversion (G is the lowest note) and the second position one is a root inversion. You see? It's too convoluted to use inversion specifications.

But, it is still perfectly correct to use the word inversion in the way most of us (including Brad Bordessa) do. We play different inversions all the time. It's just an exercise in stupidity to bother analyzing which inversions we're playing.
 
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I hear "first position" or "second position" etc. sometimes - like CeeJay noted above; my instructor will do this. But more commonly from other players, I hear "play the C using the B-flat chord shape" or something along those lines.


The same thing said a different way really.....at the seventh fret you can use a G shape to play C or C at the third position ...

in fact the official chord is given as 9787 but I often play the G string open as it is part of a C chord and gives it a nice sound .....it's probably not kosher...but hey so what ? i know what is right and choose to not.

My Hal Leonard Chord Finder explains the use of the word inversion much as Janeray40 did..........and then goes on to give examples of chords in three places on the neck ...which we refer to as positions ...

Hal Leonard Ukulele Chord Finder. Personally I think is the best book after Lew Stern 's Ukelele method. Three positions for all chords and over 1000 chords.....cool...all in A 5 size . No interest declared lol. Well, just yours.
 
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It's just an exercise in stupidity to bother analyzing which inversions we're playing.

I agree with this but in music theory isn't the whole point of inversions to specify which one you are playing in? That's my problem.
 
In keeping with the exercise in futility... I have to agree with a previous comment that this part of music theory does not extent very well to a fretted instrument where the use of semi-open chords can be employed.

Playing a G chord on a ukulele with linear tuning using semi-open does tend to complicate the lowest root approach when it does not change from shape to shape.

John
 
I'm still pretty new to the ukulele. One thing I keep bumping into and can't quite get used to is (what appears to me to be) the use of the word "inversion" when actually talking about chord shapes and positions. In normal music theory "inversion" usually implies some specific concern for the relative positions of the notes within a chord. On the uke, we speak of changing inversions with no concern or even awareness of whether we are moving, say, from a first to third inversion or an noninverted voicing to a second inversion. We don't really care about the specific inversions but we seem to talk about inversions all the time. Seems to me it would be better to just say changing shapes.

I first noticed this looking thru Brad Bordessa's book. He keeps talking about "inversions" but nowhere did I notice him mentioning what inversions the specific shapes actually use.

Like I said, I'm kind of new so maybe I have things all messed up. If so, I'm sure someone will let me know.

Maybe I'm just being priggish. It happens.

Thanks.

Have you contacted Brad regarding this question? Why not go to the source?
 
Thanks, ubulele. I'm going to need to read this several time, there's a lot in there. I can absolutely see that someday the voicing of chords will be very important in arranging. Not sure though that I'll ever go deep enough to get concerned with the literal inversions. But heck, I never thought I'd be a ukulele player either.
 
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I agree with this but in music theory isn't the whole point of inversions to specify which one you are playing in? That's my problem.

Not really. Playing the right chords is important. If the music asks you to play a specific inversion for a chord, your chances of fitting it in on an ukulele are very slim (impossible in reality). Inversion "theory" is really intended for piano, organ, or ensemble playing. If you see ukulele chord sheets specifying inversions, (never seen such a thing) the person writing those tabs either doesn't quite know what an inversion is (using the word to signify something else), or probably has no idea what an ukulele cannot do. I seriously doubt you'll find inversions specified for guitar chord music, either. Your asking about a problem that doesn't really exist.

If you see ukulele chord music specifying inversions, you must do one of three things: 1) Assume the creator meant "position" and try to figure that out, 2) get yourself a bass player to play the necessary bottom notes, or 3) ignore the inversions altogether. Unless you would like to play with a Bass player, the third choice is the only serious one.
 
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Learning to play chords in different places on the neck is essential to becoming a better player. Start with major chords and learn to play them up and down the neck. Roy Sakuma's chord book is excellent because it shows four positions for each chord.

Try 1-4-5 progressions using chords in different positions. You will hear and feel the advantages. You'll begin to see and hear melodic movement on various strings. You'll also be able to incorporate the melody in your playing.

A song will sound dramatically different and often better if the "right" inversions (positions) are found.

Roy Sakuma's chord book will help you get there. Start with simple songs. You'll get it. It's not that hard.
 
It is refreshing to see a discussion about the sound of notes played simultaneously. Those of us with a brass or woodwind background can only do one sound at a time, so this stuff is not relevant to our single tone. To be able to make multiple sounds at the same time is the charm of things with strings. Some people want to understand relationships of sounds, and some could care less. As you continue to develop, you will find yourself wanting to put the music in your head on paper. In some cases you will want to emphasize a tone by doubling it in a chord. It may mean that GCEC does not give the sound you want. Now you will begin to wonder where you can find a chord which will double one of the other two tones. Some people don't even care that such a thing is possible. I am blessed to have a daughter who is a university level piano teacher. Talking about this sort of stuff is not much different from talking about what we had for lunch. There is another website called Fretted Friends. They seem to be an association of explorers rather than those who have settled down to farm or run a business. They will open the top of your head and dribble or pour in information as rapidly or as slowly as you can take it. It doesn't seem to me that this part of UkuleleUnderground is where you will get your satisfaction. It does NOT mean that it is wrong...just different from what is your interest. Perhaps you will establish contact with someone on this site who will become an off site friend and mentor.

I play chess. It was something I taught to some of my students. One of them went on to become the California High School Chess Champion. His passion and abilities far exceeded my contentment with just pushing wood. Music is the same way. There are some content to never get above the 5th fret. I am glad you are getting so many encouragements and resources from others. You may even want to learn about such words as Ionian and Aeolian.
 
In another thread there is discussion of whether or not we have a ukulele boom still in 2015. Possibly one of the markers for the progress of a boom would be the response to the comment from ubulele, which basically says learn your fretboard and the chord shapes.
There are many ukulele players who just want to spend their recreation time playing their ukulele, not learning CAGED, not learning note names. Just watching videos or joining a group and following a leader for strum patterns and tunes and vocals etc. .If you ask them they wont have time for "technical stuff". Recreational music in a rote learned format. The marker statistic would be there if this is changing and noticeably more ukulele players are starting to actually care about stuff like the name of the inversion, actually learning the names of the notes on the fretboard and a few scales or such. This might signal a move into recreational music in a more educated and informed format, which includes some originality and creativity by a higher number of ukulele players. Instead of copying the leader or video by rote, they learn the piece from the material or example, and then know how to change it to suit themselves. Is there any evidence that in 2015 ukulele players are going to move into this sort of recreational music?

This is certainly possible given the abundance of information, instruction, music and performances online - and free. Also, now that recorded music is everywhere and practically free, maybe the best way for us to still connect with it is to make it ourselves?
 
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