un-UAS

tbeltrans

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After dropping my wife off at JoAnn Fabric, I walked over to Guitar Center to wander around a bit. I did not need/buy anything, but I did get interested in checking out a used Kamaka Soprano ukulele hanging on the wall in the acoustic section.

I think it was an HF-1 (since it looked exactly like the one on Kamaka's site and seems to be the only Soprano they showed), with a hard shell case and from the 1990s (according to the sales guy). It had a white label inside, so I assume that is what people mean when they talk here about "white label" Kamakas. It was selling for $499, and they would let it go for closer to $400.

Anyway, I tried it (not that I have $400 to spend anyway...) and did not care for it. It is quite different from my Ohta-San. The Ohta-San has really smooth tuners, called "Planetary" tuners that make tuning really easy. The Soprano had tuners that looked somewhat like the tuners on my Ohta-San, but seemed too sensitive, making tuning more difficult than on my Ohta-San. I could not seem to get the entire ukulele in tune. If it was in tune with the open strings, it was a bit out of tune playing chords a few frets up the neck. The E string seemed to have a slight intonation problem.

The out-of-tuneness was subtle, but really bothersome to me. Electric guitars often seem to have that same sort of thing going on, which may be one reason I have never wanted to own one.

Edit: I tried a couple of different ways of tuning, as has been discussed in other threads and none of them seemed to resolve the issues completely. Often, you can compensate for certain issues when tuning, but none of that seemed to completely clear up the problem. I am wondering if the very short size/scale contributes to the problem. It wasn't a quality issue, from what I could tell. Kamaka is a quality instrument.

What I don't know is if this sort of thing is common with Soprano ukuleles in general, since I have no experience with them. The Kamaka apparently sells for $995 new, so it must be a pretty darn nice ukulele in the Soprano market segment.

Even if the issues I mentioned were non-existent, I realize that the Concert size is probably as small as I would care to go. For me, the Soprano is too small. Maybe there is a different way of holding them that I don't yet know about. Reading in these forums, it is clear to me that there is a lot I don't know about ukuleles and, as I readily admit, my sample size of experience with different ukuleles is rather small since I don't make it a habit to go around shopping for new instruments to add to my admittedly small collection.

On the positive side, this little Soprano has a big sound and looked very, very nice. I don't care for the all-Koa look on guitars, but find it quite appealing on ukuleles.

I think that sometimes, we can avoid UAS by realizing that we already did it "right" with the instruments we may already have. I have a concert size (Ohta-San) that is low G, and a Ko'olau Tenor size (re-entrant high G), and now I know for sure that I don't need a Soprano (any Soprano, because it is too small for me to handle comfortably).

My ukuleles play in tune and don't seem to exhibit intonation issues. I have not played many other ukuleles, and only one Soprano, so I really don't know what other ukuleles are like in terms of how well they play and remain in tune, how easy to get around the fretboard they are, etc.

Those things are important to me, so I am fortunate that my two ukuleles don't have those types of issues. Sometimes, it is good to reflect on what we have and be grateful for it. If what we have seems good to us, then maybe the urge to get something else may thankfully fade, to be replaced by a sense of satisfaction and the desire to simply play. I don't think this sense of satisfaction and being grateful for what we have needs to be tied at all to how much we paid for our ukuleles, but instead with how suitable they are for the music we want to make. There will always be something out there that is better than what we have, but also plenty that are not as good (at least for our individual needs).

Tony
 
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Tony, I get it. I've never tried a soprano I liked, not even a white label Kamaka a TBUS member has. I did try one Kala solid mahog that wasn't bad, but I didn't like it well enough to pay 300+. I didn't even care for a LoPrinzi soprano a friend of mine had....
I guess you and I aren't soprano people....it's a matter of taste I suppose.
 
Tony, I get it. I've never tried a soprano I liked, not even a white label Kamaka a TBUS member has. I did try one Kala solid mahog that wasn't bad, but I didn't like it well enough to pay 300+. I didn't even care for a LoPrinzi soprano a friend of mine had....
I guess you and I aren't soprano people....it's a matter of taste I suppose.

Definitely. A lot of people here like Soprano ukuleles. I know some people don't care for tenor ukuleles. It really is a matter of what works for a given person. I would be curious to know if that out-of-tuneness is common among Soprano ukuleles due to their very short scale or if might have just been that particular one that I played. It wasn't awfully out of tune, but just enough to be bothersome. It always seems to me that certain types of solid body electric guitars have that same thing going on, and they certainly have a much longer scale.

Tony
 
Sopranos are generally played differently to Tenors which tend to be finger picked like (please excuse,this is not belittling ) small guitars and are a little better with intonation because they are a bit larger and longer in the scale .

I find that Sopranos are the "speedsters" of the uke world and tend to be strummed ...you can finger pick a Soprano but you have to be more aware of the range limitation (after about the 7th fret they get a bit strangled sounding) and the intonation issues .

I believe Ohta - san does this with some success. As do I. Though,probably not as well as as the aforementioned gentleman.

I personally go opposite to T-bell , I don't "get" the Tenor (I have one from Bruce Wei).

..and have just purchased a guilele which I play like a guitar . Which I think is the point (?) as it gives some oomph at the bass end.

My Tenor IS re-entrant tuned , so that may be why I moved on to guilele .(I have actually variously tuned the tenor from GCEA to DGBE ,
too slack then to EADbGb, which is better but odd so may try F etc......)

I also have two Banjo Ukes ...one soprano necked 9" pot resonater which I have had man and boy since I was about 14, so that's 43 years and it is a bit older , mainly a strum machine . And a much newer (1 this munf) Kala concert necked 8" pot which I use for picking and strumming as the neck is a bit more spacious.

So I have tasted the apple at various different sizes , 2 Sops ,3 Concerts ,1 Tenor ,1 Guilele (Just this week ...Jury ...still urmmmmmm), 2 Banjo Ukes in the last 5 years having solely owned and played a Sop BU for the past 40 odd on and off.

It has been nice to dip a toe in the water in the last five years on returning to the uke to see what all the other sizes are about , but the Soprano remains my favourite. Horses for Courses I suppose.

I don't actually have UAS , I find that a strange thing ...I had curiosity ..that is now mostly curbed ....
 
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Definitely. A lot of people here like Soprano ukuleles. I know some people don't care for tenor ukuleles. It really is a matter of what works for a given person. I would be curious to know if that out-of-tuneness is common among Soprano ukuleles due to their very short scale or if might have just been that particular one that I played. It wasn't awfully out of tune, but just enough to be bothersome. It always seems to me that certain types of solid body electric guitars have that same thing going on, and they certainly have a much longer scale.

Tony
Sopranos are less forgiving to your fretting hand. You have to be both soft and precise with your finger placements as you move further up the neck. Any string bending is always exaggerated on a shorter scale.
 
I think you pretty much said it all mate. You're not a soprano player. You're not used to fretting on a shorter scale nor tuning with standard friction tuners. That's fine. However, I think you taking that very limited experience and broadly identifying intonation issues existing predominantly with soprano ukes - given you've played only one - and electric git fiddles (played daily by gazillions) is ridiculous. But yeah, beyond that, your general point is well made: it's as good to know what you don't like as much as it is to know what you do.
 
.....I think that sometimes, we can avoid UAS by realizing that we already did it "right" with the instruments we may already have.......Tony

Have to agree with the "did it right." However, getting to that point did take some experimentation. However, _AS (fill in the letter, depending in the instrument) still happens. For me, it's more curiosity that looking for the ultimate instrument. There have been a number of instruments that have come-and-gone, and that trend still continues.

I enjoy trying something new. An electric solid-body joined the stable last week. A steel-stringed KonaBlaster came before that, and a tenor-scale banjo uke is forthcoming. Sometimes the instrument stays for a long while or is sold/traded after the curiosity is satisfied. I've been lucky in that the total cash outgo has not been bad, thanks to decent/fair trades and sales.

_AS only becomes a problem when it becomes an obsession and the household suffers because if it.
 
Anyway, I tried it (not that I have $400 to spend anyway...) and did not care for it. It is quite different from my Ohta-San. The Ohta-San has really smooth tuners, called "Planetary" tuners that make tuning really easy. The Soprano had tuners that looked somewhat like the tuners on my Ohta-San, but seemed too sensitive, making tuning more difficult than on my Ohta-San. I could not seem to get the entire ukulele in tune. If it was in tune with the open strings, it was a bit out of tune playing chords a few frets up the neck. The E string seemed to have a slight intonation problem.

...

What I don't know is if this sort of thing is common with Soprano ukuleles in general, since I have no experience with them. The Kamaka apparently sells for $995 new, so it must be a pretty darn nice ukulele in the Soprano market segment.

A few thoughts on this... in my experience, as the owner of 6 Kamakas over as many years - intonation issues are not typical, even on sopranos. I've owned two of their sopranos (and one super-soprano) and played many more, and have never noticed an intonation issue on any of them. I did once own a Kamaka concert that had intonation issues, but I bought it second-hand and sight-unseen, so - who knows how it got that way. I play high up the neck a lot, and am really sensitive to the intonation being off.

As for the tuners - yeah, the UPTs on your Ohta-San are what all Kamakas come with now, and they are fantastic (and account for about $100 of the price increase, I'd estimate). I still own two older (2000s) Kamakas with the old Schaller (I think) friction tuners, and while they don't really bother me, I do think from time to time of retrofitting them with the UPTs.

As for Kamakas of the era the one you encountered was - I dunno, I've heard they aren't the greatest. I've never owned one, I've encountered a few, and - personally I'd rather buy new. Not to say they're bad, but - don't let it color your judgment of sopranos, or Kamaka in general, because the 2000s and later ones are a lot better as players (rather than collector instruments) IMO. Knowing it's too small for you to play is a good reason to write off sopranos (just as I have done with tenors, for the opposite reason), but to me it sounds like you just encountered a less-than-stellar example all around.
 
There's nothing wrong with not getting into sopranos. I didn't think I would like them either. I have a little jangly Ohana that is perfect when I want something a little more plunky sounding.
 
I think you pretty much said it all mate. You're not a soprano player. You're not used to fretting on a shorter scale nor tuning with standard friction tuners. That's fine. However, I think you taking that very limited experience and broadly identifying intonation issues existing predominantly with soprano ukes - given you've played only one - and electric git fiddles (played daily by gazillions) is ridiculous. But yeah, beyond that, your general point is well made: it's as good to know what you don't like as much as it is to know what you do.

I had hoped I made myself clear in saying that I did not know if such an issue is true with all Sopranos or with just the one I played. I made no general statement about all Sopranos, but I did ask the question. I have received an answer from Hippie Dribble saying that I would have to adapt a technique for playing a Soprano. That is helpful information and I may reconsider and have another look.

Tony
 
Just preference. I have several different sizes depending on the song and my emotional whim.

When I am working and need a quick pick me up ... I enjoy my Super Soprano Keli'i A LOT ... it is the 100% Mahogany solid wood ... I had the nut and saddle traded out for one made of Tulip Wood ... and it is sweet, mellow and full sounding ... just awesome.

At night or when I want to be a little mellow, I enjoy my Baritone Pono Pro Classic Spruce top ... it is mellow, bright and has Pro D'Arte strings on it which make for lovely finger style playing.

I enjoy my Tenors ... all of them for different reasons and seasons. My LFdM is my favourite.

Next on my list is a Clara ... it will be the only concert I get ... or a Kinnard Concert ...
 
A few thoughts on this... in my experience, as the owner of 6 Kamakas over as many years - intonation issues are not typical, even on sopranos. I've owned two of their sopranos (and one super-soprano) and played many more, and have never noticed an intonation issue on any of them. I did once own a Kamaka concert that had intonation issues, but I bought it second-hand and sight-unseen, so - who knows how it got that way. I play high up the neck a lot, and am really sensitive to the intonation being off.

As for the tuners - yeah, the UPTs on your Ohta-San are what all Kamakas come with now, and they are fantastic (and account for about $100 of the price increase, I'd estimate). I still own two older (2000s) Kamakas with the old Schaller (I think) friction tuners, and while they don't really bother me, I do think from time to time of retrofitting them with the UPTs.

As for Kamakas of the era the one you encountered was - I dunno, I've heard they aren't the greatest. I've never owned one, I've encountered a few, and - personally I'd rather buy new. Not to say they're bad, but - don't let it color your judgment of sopranos, or Kamaka in general, because the 2000s and later ones are a lot better as players (rather than collector instruments) IMO. Knowing it's too small for you to play is a good reason to write off sopranos (just as I have done with tenors, for the opposite reason), but to me it sounds like you just encountered a less-than-stellar example all around.

Thanks Janeray. I was curious about the tuners, and you answered that. As mentioned, I do own a Kamaka Ohta-San and think highly of it. I definitely have a lot to learn about playing a Soprano as Hippie Dribble pointed out, so maybe I will have to give that Soprano another look at some point. I have seen enough Youtube videos of people playing Sopranos, and they seem to get a lot of music out of them. I definitely was not comfortable trying to figure out how to hold the Soprano, so I figure I probably have more to learn about holding such a small instrument.

Your comment about that particular era of Kamaka is interesting. Are there good and not-so-good eras of Kamaka ukuleles? That would be an important data point to know about.

Tony
 
Sopranos are generally played differently to Tenors which tend to be finger picked like (please excuse,this is not belittling ) small guitars and are a little better with intonation because they are a bit larger and longer in the scale .

I find that Sopranos are the "speedsters" of the uke world and tend to be strummed ...you can finger pick a Soprano but you have to be more aware of the range limitation (after about the 7th fret they get a bit strangled sounding) and the intonation issues .

I believe Ohta - san does this with some success. As do I. Though,probably not as well as as the aforementioned gentleman.

I personally go opposite to T-bell , I don't "get" the Tenor (I have one from Bruce Wei).

..and have just purchased a guilele which I play like a guitar . Which I think is the point (?) as it gives some oomph at the bass end.

My Tenor IS re-entrant tuned , so that may be why I moved on to guilele .(I have actually variously tuned the tenor from GCEA to DGBE ,
too slack then to EADbGb, which is better but odd so may try F etc......)

I also have two Banjo Ukes ...one soprano necked 9" pot resonater which I have had man and boy since I was about 14, so that's 43 years and it is a bit older , mainly a strum machine . And a much newer (1 this munf) Kala concert necked 8" pot which I use for picking and strumming as the neck is a bit more spacious.

So I have tasted the apple at various different sizes , 2 Sops ,3 Concerts ,1 Tenor ,1 Guilele (Just this week ...Jury ...still urmmmmmm), 2 Banjo Ukes in the last 5 years having solely owned and played a Sop BU for the past 40 odd on and off.

It has been nice to dip a toe in the water in the last five years on returning to the uke to see what all the other sizes are about , but the Soprano remains my favourite. Horses for Courses I suppose.

I don't actually have UAS , I find that a strange thing ...I had curiosity ..that is now mostly curbed ....


Thanks CeeJay! The part of your post I marked in bold is definitely some information I obviously did not know. I am learning some good stuff in this thread about Soprano ukuleles.

Lie your tenor, mine is also re-entrant tuned. I am finding that I really like that tuning. Since I am starting to get into the campanella style of playing, the re-entrant is perfect for that. The Ohta-San is a bit smaller than a tenor, since it is concert sized. So having the tenor in re-entrant and the smaller concert size ukulele in low G, both sounds nice and full.

What I did really like about the Soprano I tried today is that it is high and clear - it really sings. With you folks have been telling me in this thread, I just may have to check it out again rather than deciding it isn't for me. I clearly did not know what to do with it.

I have yet to see a Banjo Ukulele, but I woudl bet it is an interesting instrument with a sound all its own.

Tony
 
I had hoped I made myself clear in saying that I did not know if such an issue is true with all Sopranos or with just the one I played. I made no general statement about all Sopranos, but I did ask the question. I have received an answer from Hippie Dribble saying that I would have to adapt a technique for playing a Soprano. That is helpful information and I may reconsider and have another look.

Tony
Fair enough mate. Guess I was trying to say that to ask the question itself is crazy given sopranos are the original scale length and have stood the test of time through all eras. Not sure they would have done so if they weren't intonated well.

To your other question about Kamaka sops and white labels v 200s: the two white labels I owned were absolute sound cannons; light and loud and gorgeous to play. The newer ones in my opinion are a little mellower sounding. Cheers!
 
Have to agree with the "did it right." However, getting to that point did take some experimentation. However, _AS (fill in the letter, depending in the instrument) still happens. For me, it's more curiosity that looking for the ultimate instrument. There have been a number of instruments that have come-and-gone, and that trend still continues.

I enjoy trying something new. An electric solid-body joined the stable last week. A steel-stringed KonaBlaster came before that, and a tenor-scale banjo uke is forthcoming. Sometimes the instrument stays for a long while or is sold/traded after the curiosity is satisfied. I've been lucky in that the total cash outgo has not been bad, thanks to decent/fair trades and sales.

_AS only becomes a problem when it becomes an obsession and the household suffers because if it.

I definitely agree with you on this. That is the problem - we don't know what we want to settle with until we have tried enough instruments to know. I don't know either that UAS is a "bad" thing, but some in these forums speak of it as something they can't stop. My suggestions are really about just slowing down and recognizing what we may already have. Everybody here is in a different place with their instruments. Some are still looking, so what I said would be completely irrelevant to them. Others enjoy collecting and have no interest in doing otherwise. Some enjoy buying and selling, keeping things fresh. So, really, my comments may apply to some who are getting a bit concerned about UAS. However, each of us has to decide that for ourselves. I suppose I was really reminding myself of that as much as saying it to anybody else. :)

Tony
 
There's nothing wrong with not getting into sopranos. I didn't think I would like them either. I have a little jangly Ohana that is perfect when I want something a little more plunky sounding.

Based on responses in this thread, I am starting to think my judgment of Soprano ukuleles is based on not enough knowledge about them. I have learned that they are largely for strumming, though you can finger pick them if you are careful, and in general the technique to play them is a bit different from what I have been used to playing with larger instruments. So I will, as a result of this thread, keep an open mid about Sopranos and may just add one someday to my own small collection.

Tony
 
Thanks Janeray. I was curious about the tuners, and you answered that. As mentioned, I do own a Kamaka Ohta-San and think highly of it. I definitely have a lot to learn about playing a Soprano as Hippie Dribble pointed out, so maybe I will have to give that Soprano another look at some point. I have seen enough Youtube videos of people playing Sopranos, and they seem to get a lot of music out of them. I definitely was not comfortable trying to figure out how to hold the Soprano, so I figure I probably have more to learn about holding such a small instrument.

Your comment about that particular era of Kamaka is interesting. Are there good and not-so-good eras of Kamaka ukuleles? That would be an important data point to know about.

Tony

Hey Tony - this is just my opinion, based on what I've encountered in the wild, and what I've heard from players with similar taste in instruments, but - I was advised early on in my uke journey to steer clear of the 1980s and 1990s models. No idea if this is documented anywhere, but my guess is that the manufacturing process got a lot more consistent as technology developed in more recent years. I've heard some 1950s and earlier Kamaka sopranos that had really sweet tones, and my 2011 HP-1 is pretty near perfect, but when I first started playing, I ran across a few white label Kamakas with tempting price tags and was consistently underwhelmed. So much so, in fact, that my first "good" uke was a Koaloha, even though my heart had been set on a Kamaka :)

Another thing about sopranos in general - again, my opinion only - is that they aren't always a great choice for fingerstyle playing. Of course it can be done (hello, John King and Ohta-San!) but in my experience, in my much-less-than-virtuoso hands, the notes played higher up the neck just don't have the sustain and clarity that a longer scale uke has. Also, it's really easy to accidentally bend those soprano strings so that notes are a bit sharp or flat higher up the neck - even with my little hands, I tend to play a bit sharp when playing past the 12th fret because those frets are so tiny at that point.

Truth be told, if I didn't have such a nice soprano I'd probably have sold it long ago, and would solely play concert scale - for what I do, concerts are pretty perfect. As others have said, it's perfectly okay to write off "whatever"-scale as "just not for you!" And yes, it's even better to know that you appreciate and play what you have, and to not be on the lookout for something else. I've learned to never say never, but for now, that's where I am, and it's a pretty great place to be.
 
You might like a longneck soprano better, with more room on the fretboard it may not seem so small, but it will sound mostly like a soprano. Sounds like the Kamaka on the wall had a reason for hanging there. Not all ukes from Kamaka are amazing, and some have been through the wringer.

Yes, sopranos are different; I have two sopranos and a concert, and one of the sopranos is a Kamaka pineapple. It has great intonation and tone, but it doesn't have the sustain and depth of my concert uke. But it doesn't have to. It's supposed to be punchy and percussive, not ring out like the bigger sizes do at the higher frets. But the big ukes don't have that classic sound that I also love, and certain songs seem to work better on a soprano. It's why so many UUers have different sizes, though I do think things can get out of hand. The size and relatively low cost of ukes make them easier to accumulate than other instruments, I think.

I plan on getting a tenor, but I was just in Sam Ash today playing random ukes, and I am wondering if I shouldn't just get another concert (for high G fingerpicking; current concert is strung low G). The tenors didn't feel too big overall, they were comfortable to hold, but the fretboard is a good bit longer. I'll try them again soon, see how far I stretch. Tenor may not be for me. But then again, I was nervous when I got my concert after playing soprano exclusively. It seemed so big when I got it, but now it's no problem. Tenors are soooo popular, though, and sound so nice. I think my wee hands can do it. In any case, it might be the first uke I buy with the idea that I might sell it later.

Oh, and I tried out a 2014 Kamaka HF-1 last year before buying my pineapple. It had the Schaller tuners (seems not all have the Gotohs) and I thought they just plain sucked. The uke was fine, the tuners stunk.
 
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Another thing about sopranos in general - again, my opinion only - is that they aren't always a great choice for fingerstyle playing. Of course it can be done (hello, John King and Ohta-San!) but in my experience, in my much-less-than-virtuoso hands, the notes played higher up the neck just don't have the sustain and clarity that a longer scale uke has. Also, it's really easy to accidentally bend those soprano strings so that notes are a bit sharp or flat higher up the neck - even with my little hands, I tend to play a bit sharp when playing past the 12th fret because those frets are so tiny at that point.

.

Many Sopranos don't have more than the twelve frets or possibly just one or two above, because that is where they meet the body. They definitely require some thought aforehand if you are going to go up the stave and scale...you may need to adapt and go "across" the neck ....or alter the arrangement to suit ....or just hum LOL (sorry JRay, that's nearly strum and sing :) )
 
Many Sopranos don't have more than the twelve frets or possibly just one or two above, because that is where they meet the body. They definitely require some thought aforehand if you are going to go up the stave and scale...you may need to adapt and go "across" the neck ....or alter the arrangement to suit ....or just hum LOL (sorry JRay, that's nearly strum and sing :) )

Trust me, nobody wants to hear me hum OR sing :)

I learned within my first three months of playing that 12 frets were not going to be enough - since then, I've had a pretty easy time finding sopranos that ranged from 15 to 19 frets. What made the greatest difference in tone and playability for me was having a 14-fret join rather than the standard 12-fret join you just described, but then I've only seen that on concert-neck/longneck/super sopranos.
 
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