Nut & Saddle Material Influence on Tone?

I'm curious to hear from the luthiers how much importance they see in the material used for the nut and saddle? From what I can tell, tusq seems to be the go-to for practically all ukes I have come across (production builds though not custom builds). Could a higher end uke whether production or custom benefit from other materials such as bone or (fossilized) ivory?

And what about bridge pins? I was amazed to find cheapie plastic bridge pins on my Kanilea - not even cheapie rosewood bridge pins lol.

I play a lot of classical guitar as well and I do think there is a noticeable difference (particularly in sustain) using more optimal density materials for the nut and saddle. Not so much for the bridge pins though thats more a cosmetic thing although I know others that insist there is a tonal improvement.

Anyway just curious. I may try getting some fossilized ivory for my Kamaka tenor and go from there.

IMO, saddle material affects tone, the nut not so much. Not a big fan of Tusq or other synthetics, including Corian. I 've tried them but keep going back to bone.

mzuch, mind if I ask where you are getting your bone saddles or are you just shaping them yourself say from guitar bone saddles?

I am increasingly tempted to try this at least at first on my tenor and see if there's a notable change. But I agree, the nut material may not inform tone as much as the saddle material the same with guitar.

Hi the.ronin. I buy bone nut and saddle blanks off of ebay and shape them to final dimensions myself.

Thanks mzuch. I get my materials from Bob Colosi. But I've always just done this with my classical guitars (all have hard west african ivory nuts and saddles). Just got provide very specific dimensions and you shape down from there. I'm going to give this shot.

This is a topic that crops up on the cigar box nation all the time. They tend to get a little wilder in choice of materials than most uke builders but the comments there tend to be arroud harder, like steel bolts, or capping with fret wire being brighter and softer woods being more mellow.
If you want to hear how much difference in tone there can be between try using your existing nut and then use a metal nut, conveniently installed on your fret board.

A vid i did a while a go-

I think of nut/saddle material as i do tonewood (top/back/fingerboard)- it it taps well, it is better then material that doesn't tap well. Bone saddles are better on overly bright instruments. Tusq saddles can reinvigorate dull instruments. I usually tusq saddles and bone nuts but im not fussed if a customer wants bone- it still sounds good

Beau Hannam Ukuleles said:

A vid i did a while a go-

I think of nut/saddle material as i do tonewood (top/back/fingerboard)- it it taps well, it is better then material that doesn't tap well. Bone saddles are better on overly bright instruments. Tusq saddles can reinvigorate dull instruments. I usually tusq saddles and bone nuts but im not fussed if a customer wants bone- it still sounds good

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What if an already bright instrument use Tusq saddle? Have you done that and the result? Thanks

If a sound is too bright for you, then changing to a bone saddle will dull/round out the sound a bit- plastic more so.

Thanks. I ask because I have some black Tusq blanks (they called it "Tusq XL"), I am curious to try Tusq on bright instrument.

I have cut and sand it to fit for uke.





I also tried ebony saddle, there was some projection lost, sound was less bright & soft.

That is very interesting that a bone will soften a bright instrument over tusq. I actually thought bone was more dense than tusq (therefore allowing more pass through to the soundboard therefore increasing quality of volume as well as tone and definition / sustain).

Have you tried other materials like hard west african ivory or fossilized mammoth ivory?

I plan to replace all my tusq nuts and saddles with bone (the ivory would have been too expensive for me for 3 ukes). But now I'm concerned because one of them is comparatively dull sounding to my ears and I was hoping the bone would add a little life to it.

[edit] I ought to clarify, I know density alone is not the determining factor. Otherwise, we'd be using platinum nuts and saddles LOL. When I refer to density I mean within that optimal range of sonic resonance. I would not ever have thought tusq was higher up on that range than bone.

Interesting thread. I have a cheap baritone 'uke with a small voice -- too much Chinese laminate and lacquer, no doubt. Replacing the factory fishing line with Martin wrapped-D+G fluorocarbons helped a little. I wonder if replacing the nut and saddle would 1) make it brighter and 2) be worth the expenditure? How can I tell if the current material is plastic, as I suspect? What would be a good low-cost replacement? I see various offerings on eBay of nut+saddle sets of buffalo bone. Are these any good?

I would recommend trying just the saddle. Comparatively, the saddle informs much more of the tone than the nut. Personally, I tend to replace the nut just to keep the material look consistent and in some cases, so I can define the string spacing. Also, the nut is much more involved to install particularly since it is best slotted while on the instrument itself - I would avoid buying pre-slotted nuts.

Whether it's worth the expenditure depends on the material. You can spend over $100 on hard west african ivory. I would recommend just getting a bone saddle. I picked up a few from Stew Mac for cheap. You can even pick between bleached (white) or non-bleached (tan-ish). Take measurements of your saddle and get the one that is the closest size but bigger.

In a nutshell, heres the process (everyone does it a little differently though) ... take measurements of your action at the 12th and at the 1st frets for your G and A strings before removing the existing saddle. Then you need to shape the new saddle by sanding it to match your existing one. Use a digital caliper - don't just eyeball it. And the first rule is never to sand from the bottom. Saddles must have a near prefect flat bottom for optimal performance. (Yes, I do sand from the bottom sometimes and I use a marble block as my sanding base.) Sand from the top until you get it to size. I'd leave some buffer before you hit your target, string up, let it settle, and take some action measurements. You should still be higher than your stock measurements. Play it and see if you like it. You might find the added volume is worth the extra fingertip callouses LOL. If not, take a bit more off the saddle, rinse, repeat until you get it just right. Just keep in mind your looking for action at or around the 4th and up. Below that, you likely need to adjust the action at the nut which just means filing down the slots little by little.

Again, everyone does it a little differently but this should give you an idea.

"West African Ivory".

Really?

I was plenty surprised to see that too!

Thank you, Kekani and resoman, for bringing this up. Please, please do not buy or use ivory in any form. The elephants will thank you.

Kekani said:

"West African Ivory".

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I prefer NNW ivory

But seriously, the ivory saddles ive done a drop test on didn't sound as "good" as bone- ie- they sounded duller

Kekani said:

"West African Ivory".

Really?

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resoman said:

I was plenty surprised to see that too!

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Beau Hannam Ukuleles said:

I prefer NNW ivory

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really.

More common with high end steel strings.

And please, let's not pull out the pitch forks just yet. Bob Colosi is a very reputable source for materials. Any of you from AGF will know the name. There is nothing shady going on here.

the.ronin said:

really.

More common with high end steel strings.

And please, let's not pull out the pitch forks just yet. Bob Colosi is a very reputable source for materials. Any of you from AGF will know the name. There is nothing shady going on here.

Click to expand...

I didn't see any pitchforks. You feel using Ivory from West Africa is not shady, that's on you. I don't think you'll find many around here that can provide a comparison.

You also feel that Tusq is not "proper" compared to bone or ivory, that's your opinion as well. I use it exclusively, mostly because of the Graph Tech family, but also because LRBaggs (iirc) recommends composite material for their UST's.

I may be wrong, but it seems your view, application and usage of ivory puts it at the top, in bragging rights sort of way. That's cool, I like to brag as well.
Personally, I've used documented Mastodon Ivory. I wasn't going to comment on "fossilized" ivory, but when that turned into West African Ivory, I thought I'd at least mention the elephant in the room. Yes, pun intended.

My guess is that you're eventually going to install ivory anyway. I think others think the same which is why there's really no in depth discussion. Again, I may be wrong and others may have something to add regarding nut & saddle material.

Tusq is definalty better for under saddle pickups