Random thoughts

Nickie

Nickie

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I found out that supposedly, the luthier I want to talk to about having a uke made for me is out of aged wood, and is using "new" stuff. Another builder has wood as old as me (wow). I guess the newer wood that hasn't aged as long isn't as good? He said it took him a year to build three ukes, while building guitars and mandolins. The ukes are "neck heavy", which he said makes them louder. He used ash. I don't like a heavy neck. Wouldn't mahog be a better choice?
I also heard that some builders are using "kiln dried" (although it isn't called that anymore) wood, which has the water sucked slowly out of the cells, which doesn't sound too good. He said he has 3 "piles" of spruce for soundwood. One pile is "dead" when you thump it, one pile has a slight "ring" which dies rapidly, and another pile rings and sustains when thumped. I think I need to make the drive again and listen to it for myself.
And is it true that the thickness should be 1/32nd"?
Other than the heavy necks/thick headstocks, the ukes are quite lovely and feel good to hold and strum. No glue sticking left on any surfaces, no frets sticking out, it's quality work, I think. One is made of African blackwood (?) and is very dark and has a bright tone. One is made of red oak and white oak. I called it an "oakalele".
He told me that it might take him a year to build what I want, as long as he uses wood he already stocks, because he also does a lot of repairs for customers. The other luthier in the area has a year wait list for start dates....I think I'd be happy with either luthier, but one would cost me more. (I really don't need to pay for a fancy name)
But I would be able to drive over once in a while to see the progress, and would be able to personally pick out the wood pieces. I feel like a bit of a guinea pig, in a way, but with him knowing I'm not far away and know LOTS of ukers, he would probably try to do his best work. The repair work he has done for me has been excellent and pretty cheap.
Both ways would give me time to save up the money....
Any thoughts?
 
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Think about it, Nickie. Do you want a heavy neck? Really???


I don't like them, personally.
 
Nickie said:
I found out that supposedly, the luthier I want to talk to about having a uke made for me is out of aged wood, and is using "new" stuff. Another builder has wood as old as me (wow). I guess the newer wood that hasn't aged as long isn't as good? Not necessarily. There are many factors involved in judging the quality and stability of instrument wood. It's not something that can be explained to you with a few lines of text. The builders knowledge, experience and reputation should be foremost on you shopping list.

He said it took him a year to build three ukes, while building guitars and mandolins. The ukes are "neck heavy", which he said makes them louder.

Necks can be stiffened by the use of carbon fiber rods with out gaining much weight. Also tuners play a role. Don't use fully enclosed tuners if you want to keep the weight down. Peghead brand tuners are nice and are very light.


He used ash. I don't like a heavy neck. Wouldn't mahog be a better choice?


I also heard that some builders are using "kiln dried" (although it isn't called that anymore) wood, which has the water sucked slowly out of the cells, which doesn't sound too good. Air dried tends to be more stable but kiln dried that has been sitting around for a couple years is likely just as stable. Kiln drying does not damage the wood.

He said he has 3 "piles" of spruce for soundwood. One pile is "dead" when you thump it, one pile has a slight "ring" which dies rapidly, and another pile rings and sustains when thumped. I think I need to make the drive again and listen to it for myself.

All factors must be exactly the same to make any real comparison. All wood same size, same thickness, held in exactly the same manner then thumped with exactly the same force and after all that when it gets braced you might not be able to tell any difference at all.


And is it true that the thickness should be 1/32nd"?

It depends on the type of wood, the bracing pattern, size of the instrument. 1/32 would be way too thin for top, sides or back. But again these are things that you should not be even thinking about. If you have a good builder then he or she will know how to get the best from the particular pieces of wood.

Other than the heavy necks/thick headstocks, the ukes are quite lovely and feel good to hold and strum. No glue sticking left on any surfaces, no frets sticking out, it's quality work,


I think. One is made of African blackwood (?) and is very dark and has a bright tone. One is made of red oak and white oak. I called it an "oakalele".
He told me that it might take him a year to build what I want, as long as he uses wood he already stocks, because he also does a lot of repairs for customers. The other luthier in the area has a year wait list for start dates....I think I'd be happy with either luthier, but one would cost me more. (I really don't need to pay for a fancy name)

But I would be able to drive over once in a while to see the progress, and would be able to personally pick out the wood pieces. I feel like a bit of a guinea pig, in a way, but with him knowing I'm not far away and know LOTS of ukers, he would probably try to do his best work. The repair work he has done for me has been excellent and pretty cheap.
Both ways would give me time to save up the money....
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Please state the reasons you want a custom instrument and what you think you will be getting.
 
sukie said:
Think about it, Nickie. Do you want a heavy neck? Really???


I don't like them, personally.
Click to expand...

The neck on my Uke is on the heavier side. It is heavier with the purpose of increasing sustain. If you trust your luthier, let them do what they feel is best and I'm sure you'll have a fantastic instrument.
 
All sounds pretty dodgy to me Nickie. Why would you want a heavy neck. It is more than possible to have a light, well balanced instrument without a chunky neck that is loud with great sustain. Seriously. And a year to build "the kind of uke you want"? Doesn't sound like he's overly hurried about it. My alarm bells are ringing. I would order through a guy who has experience building ukuleles and with an established reputation.

The above just amounts to my instinctive reaction to reading your post. As Michael said, I'd like to know more about what you're after and more about the builder. For starters, if I expressly requested a neck that was on the lighter side and was told what you've been told, I'd walk straight away. A "neck heavy" uke suggests to me an unbalanced instrument. And likely to be overbuilt in other ways that may impact on sound.
 
Too many red flags for me.
Forced wood, neck heavy, takes a year to build....naw, it just doesn't feel right.
The uke I just built, my first build, is a bit neck heavy which was the result of my inexperience as a builder. It's not that big a deal on that uke but on my next build I will shape a lighter neck.

I wouldn't mind waiting for a build to start but once it's started wouldn't expect to wait much more than about a month for completion.
 
That does not sound like a good situation. I commissioned a flamenco guitar several years ago, but the builder was in Oregon and I am in Arizona. I bought it because he was a former player, people I know had bought his guitars, and the guitars were known to play like butter. I could thus reasonably assume the instrument would be a good one. During the process, he let me make a couple decisions about the wood and sent me pictures along the way. As he was nearly retired, it took a good 8 months to build. While it would have been fun to come over and see it with my own eyes, I decided to choose someone likely to make a good guitar and leave him alone to do his work.
 
Have not built a uke yet, want to but I really should finish the guitars I have going right now. Built a half dozen so far so I am not the most experienced builder but I have tried different things to learn how much give or take there is. As far as aged wood is concerned (in my opinion), as long as the moisture level is down to the 6-8% range or less the wood be ready to build from. With air drying wood you needed years for it to finally get down to that level, kiln drying can be preferred depending on the species. I built a guitar with a dense neck, wonderful sustain. Not sure how much sustain you want in a uke though. Along with a longer sustain you normally get a slower attack also. A heavier instrument will help a little in the volume department, but the mass would be better placed in the body.

A builder may be working on a number of instruments at the same time having each at different stages. While the glue is drying on this one work can be done on another. Some stages take more time than others so the amount of time spent on each is not the same depending on the stage. Finishing can take half the actual time of the build. Depending on finish, the number of coats, the time between coats, the leveling and buffing all takes time. Some finishes need to sit a month after it is applied before you even think to level and buff. Lot of methods being used with different results. Each builder finds a way that works for them, no real right or wrong way (unless it really is a wrong way).
 
Nickie said:
I found out that supposedly, the luthier I want to talk to about having a uke made for me is out of aged wood, and is using "new" stuff. Another builder has wood as old as me (wow). I guess the newer wood that hasn't aged as long isn't as good? He said it took him a year to build three ukes, while building guitars and mandolins. The ukes are "neck heavy", which he said makes them louder. He used ash. I don't like a heavy neck. Wouldn't mahog be a better choice?Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

If I was shopping for a ukulele builder, I would find one that specializes in ukuleles. Find a maker that takes a year to build three guitars or mandolins while building ukuleles. I'd bet you'll find the necks not so heavy that way. By the way, most of the wood in my shop is older than you as well...Some is even older than Christopher Columbus-It just wasn't cut into lumber that long ago :)
 
Any of the builders who post here will do an equally good job, if not better in half the time and without the misdirection. He either has a side line in snake oil, is genuinely ignorant, is a rank amateur or simply doesn't want the work. Go to a ukulele maker to get a ukulele - you wouldn't go to a florist to buy a fish would you?
 
Pete Howlett said:
Any of the builders who post here will do an equally good job, if not better in half the time and without the misdirection. He either has a side line in snake oil, is genuinely ignorant, is a rank amateur or simply doesn't want the work. Go to a ukulele maker to get a ukulele - you wouldn't go to a florist to buy a fish would you?
Click to expand...

Haha. I love you Pete!
 
All that stuff about old wood, kiln dried, thickness, tap tone. Forget it. That's not your concern. That's the concern of the guy who is making the instrument.
If you use a strap the heavy neck shouldn't be a problem. If you don't use a strap it could be a problem.
Your post reads like you don't put much trust in either of these guys. Which might tell it's own story.
 
Your post reminds me of something that i've suspected for a while, ie- giving the customer too much information to ponder isn't a good idea.
It isn't the customers position to worry about wood thickness, density or age and how those affect each other. That is the luthiers job.

All you need to know is if you enjoy his past instruments, you will probably enjoy his future instruments. The wait time always sucks, but a one year wait for a good hand made instrument ain't that long. Some classical guitar makers have a 15 year wait list.

Hope that helps your decision.
 
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Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
Haha. I love you Pete!
Click to expand...
Pete says what most of us are thinking, and we need that, especially here in the Lounge.

Okay, we may not be thinking the exact adjectives that he uses, but the path, I think, is the same nevertheless.

Personally, I have a wait list, and with McFadden's once upon a time, 1 month was just the dry time AFTER finishing. Cardinal cuts that down quite a bit.
 
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Thanks everyone, for chiming in. If I can afford it, I'm going to talk seriously to my repair luthier upon his return from looking for wood out west. He's a "wood freak", and we've established a rapport, so I think I can trust him to do a right good job for me. He's built some guitars, mandolins, and ukes that sound pretty damn good.
I'm just a bit snake bit cause my 1st attempt with a custom built uke was less than satisfying. (By a fairly well known builder I've never met)
 
Pete Howlett said:
Any of the builders who post here will do an equally good job, if not better in half the time and without the misdirection. He either has a side line in snake oil, is genuinely ignorant, is a rank amateur or simply doesn't want the work. Go to a ukulele maker to get a ukulele - you wouldn't go to a florist to buy a fish would you?
Click to expand...

There's a shop in San Francisco that sells both aquarium fish and flowers.

We now return you to your regular programming.
 
Yeah but not many 'florists' that I know of :)

So we all got sucker punched again: I'm gonna ask this question but I've already made up my mind! We fall for it every time :(

I honestly do not understand those who want the thrill of commissioning a piece without any idea of what they want. They shop around and are bewildered by the (surprise surprise) differing views and ideas of those they speak to. An evening on the internet will give you a solid idea of what to expect and should help you focus. Better still, the personal recommendation from someone you know and respect the judgement of will also be a great benefit. The wit and wisdom of those who post here I would suggest be the last and final if not desperate place to seek help. But please do not keep asking questions, the answers of which you will neither listen to or consider because you have already made up your mind what you are gonna do. There is a facility on this forum to conduct a poll if you truly need validation for your decisions. Failing that, ask your mom!

And before you reach for the flame thrower read this post again - it is not a personal attack on anyone - it's a repeat observation of something that regularly occurs here and regularly gets this response from me... I don't mind giving advice. I do mind wasting my time doing so. Not because my advice has ben ignored - I don't mind that at all. It's because you already had decided what you were going to do - you just required someone to say, "Go ahead. Make that dumb, uninformed choice. Or you can go to a place I know where some people have informed and honest ideas..."

As you can tell - I am not a fan of commissioned work which is why I am gradually discontinuing it and instead of offering a 'build a bear' approach will simply sell what I love to make - I got some really nice wood for that and clients who trust me to do a good job.
 
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