The virtues of practice.

I want to use an analogy that I thought of when I read a comment by JustinJ in another thread. We got into a discussion, and I would like to continue it, just not there.

The real issue with most people is they are not willing to put the work in to get better. There is also a proper way to practice. You have to work on those things that give you trouble. You can google proper practice to get more of an idea. I can tell you that with efficient practice you improve much quicker.

Click to expand...

When I read that, I thought about a trip, as I often times refer to my ukulele experience as a journey of discovery. So my analogy is this, two people are leaving on a trip. One person goes to google maps, types in the destination, and gets directions that are the fastest, most direct, and one might say, the most efficient route to the destination. Another person, is taking a trip as well, and has not mapped out the route, but decides to wander off on the side roads, taking their time, stopping often, and enjoying the scenery along the way and arriving at their destination, when they get there. So which is the better traveler, but more importantly in this case, who learned the most? Well, if getting to the destination is of utmost important, then getting there fast is the ticket. But much is lost along the way when one takes the interstate. I contend that the latter has learned more from the trip. That they discovered things that make the experience richer, and that richness is reflected in what they do. And I feel the same way about the ukulele.

In the ukulele journey, technical proficiency, and the pursuit of technical proficiency is important of course, but it is only one aspect of the experience. This clinical focus to "practice" is likely to produce a shallow ukulele player, especially if they do not recognize the value of anything else. To me, saying that “playing”, is not “practicing”, which appears to mean specifically working on the technical skills, is failing to recognize another important aspect of learning to play the ukulele. The aspect of exploration and discovery. This so called “playing" is what gives the ukulele soul. It teaches the ukulele player to give their music emotion, to give it life. I find many instrumentalists lack that richness, and I attribute that to their narrow focus in their journey. The regiment becomes their guide, rather than the music. Their music, while technically dazzling, sounds dead.

I think that we do a disservice when we fail to recognize the importance of taking the back roads, and experiencing what can be found off the beaten path in route to our destination. I think that it is every bit as important, and every bit as beneficial to the final product, as learning the technical skills. I believe this enough to take exception when is minimized.

RE: The virtues of practice

Well, I hear what you are saying and I have a couple of thoughts. First of all, people are different and what works for one may not work for another. So some people have a goal of playing like Jake, and some people just want to know most of the chords at their local uke strumming group. There is room for all of us in life and in ukedom.

The other thought is that it is possible too swing too far in either direction. I don't want regimented scale practice, featuring a jack-booted instructor with a cattle prod for when I slow down or miss a note, but I also know that if all I ever do is play stuff that I already know, then I will not progress very much. On the other hand, sometimes I'm burned out, either by life or by uke, and just playing stuff I know is exactly what I need for that period of time.

So, try to remember, the only absolute is that everything is relative.

If you really want to become technically proficient, your practice will necessarily be different from someone who just wants to strum a few songs. Neither of them is right, neither of them is wrong. Everyone sees the world through their own eyes (their own viewpoint and beliefs), but if we try to be aware that other people are different, we can all get along.

Captain Obvious, signing off

Rllink said:

I want to use an analogy that I thought of when I read a comment by JustinJ in another thread. We got into a discussion, and I would like to continue it, just not there.

When I read that, I thought about a trip, as I often times refer to my ukulele experience as a journey of discovery. So my analogy is this, two people are leaving on a trip. One person goes to google maps, types in the destination, and gets directions that are the fastest, most direct, and one might say, the most efficient route to the destination. Another person, is taking a trip as well, and has not mapped out the route, but decides to wander off on the side roads, taking their time, stopping often, and enjoying the scenery along the way and arriving at their destination, when they get there. So which is the better traveler, but more importantly in this case, who learned the most? Well, if getting to the destination is of utmost important, then getting there fast is the ticket. But much is lost along the way when one takes the interstate. I contend that the latter has learned more from the trip. That they discovered things that make the experience richer, and that richness is reflected in what they do. And I feel the same way about the ukulele.

In the ukulele journey, technical proficiency, and the pursuit of technical proficiency is important of course, but it is only one aspect of the experience. This clinical focus to "practice" is likely to produce a shallow ukulele player, especially if they do not recognize the value of anything else. To me, saying that “playing”, is not “practicing”, which appears to mean specifically working on the technical skills, is failing to recognize another important aspect of learning to play the ukulele. The aspect of exploration and discovery. This so called “playing" is what gives the ukulele soul. It teaches the ukulele player to give their music emotion, to give it life. I find many instrumentalists lack that, and I attribute that to their narrow focus. Their music, while technically dazzling, sounds dead. I think that we do a disservice when we fail to recognize the importance of taking the back roads, and experiencing what can be found off the beaten path in route to our destination. I believe this enough to take exception when is minimized.

Click to expand...

Just as a background; I've been playing music in orchestras since 4th grade, so my concept of practice is what would be considered "traditional." I've also been called one of the most lyrical electric bassists many have heard.

That said, there is still a HUGE difference between practicing and playing. Practicing is, as mentioned, working on all of those different techniques, skills, learning chords, etc.. on your own. You're ingraining them into the muscle memory and your own memory as well (esp. when you try to start learning a large number of tunes). Playing is NOT that. Playing is putting all of that stuff into the context of a performance, whether it's a grand event and you're on a stage, sitting in a circle at your ukulele group or just in the comfort of your living room chair, saying "Hey, check this out!" to your spouse (or attentive animal friend).

Music is a journey; there is no doubt about that. And there needs to be a balance of practicing and playing to get the full experience. However, I find more often than not, that where most people fall short in that journey is more in their approach to that practicing aspect, opting to play something a couple of times and then say "Yeah, I got it" when in fact they don't. They spend far too much time taking the back roads (as per your analogy) that they forget where they were supposed to go in the first place.

This is very well put. When I first started playing ukulele about 2 years ago, even though I had been playing guitar for almost 50 years, I couldn't get the Iz strum for "Rainbow" for the life of me. In the frustration, I put that effort aside and just kept playing what I could play, having fun. Then a couple months later I tried again and just like that, I had it (or close to it).

Well, I am not saying that technical skills, and working on them is not important. They are. What I am saying, and perhaps it is simply a matter of semantics, but I really feel like when we call one practice, and the other playing around, we sort of raise one above the other. I agree that little will be accomplished if we get stuck in the back roads, so to speak, but I believe that getting stuck on the freeway is just as bad. It isn't that I think one is more important. But I feel like the exploration aspect that comes when we take the "less efficient" route should not be treated like recess. There is a lot to be learned there, and I feel like sometimes ukulele players are made to feel that going there is a waste of time, that could be better spent working on technique. I don't believe that, and that is the point that I'm trying to make. One is not more virtuous than the other. It isn't being lazy to go off the road.

Generally, the Main Thing is to have fun playing your uke.

Learning is involved, because if we don't know what to do, that can be very frustrating... not fun!

I agree with the general tenor of the thread = Balance. We probably need both, and some will
gravitate to one end of the spectrum and others to the other end Such is life... and human being-ness

Thank you all for the reminder to be balanced and to have fun along the way

keep uke'in,

As a noob, who has never learned to play any musical instrument before, I have to say that I get the most enjoyment out of playing songs (which, at the level I'm at, basically means strumming simple three chord progressions). I was inspired to pick up the ukulele in the first place because I love music and I felt that it would give me a lot of pleasure to be able to actually make music myself. And I was right

I read some of the other posts by people who seem intent on developing their skills through structured practice and I am truly impressed by their level of focus and self-discipline. But, at the same time, another part of me is like "jeez...", because I know it's an approach that absolutely would not suit me in the slightest. It would turn me off fast and I would feel as though something that was intended as play was becoming work.

On the other hand, I do wish to develop my playing, because I want to be able to make more better music. I already have chord sheets for a bunch of songs that I would like to be able to play through. And certain songs provide certain challenges - one might require fast chord changes, or contain several barre chords, or maybe there's a little melody line to learn. Different songs allow me to work on different aspects of my playing and develop my skills without it ever feeling like I'm attending boot camp. To me, I'm just playing my ukulele.

And yeah, what he said about the journey not the destination

First off, I would like to state that this discussion should be focused on those who want to continue learning and improving on the uke. Many people are satisfied with their playing. There is nothing wrong with this.


You need the technical proficiency to bring to a musical performance. Many times I will pick up the uke and start playing some notes. This morning I was working on various chords during my practice. I was listening to see how they fit.

So after my practice, I start just playing around on the uke and I hear the beginning of Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall when I play a chord. I then think, hmm, what chord would come next. I was able to deduce because of my chord practice. If I did not understand chords or have experience with them then it would have been more difficult to know what chord may be next.

I think another overlooked aspect of playing an instrument is listening. How do I sound? What does this chord sound like? I experiment all the time, maybe I slide my finger to a flat or sharp note. What's the difference in sound.

There is a surrendering to an instrument. The practice allows you freedom while playing. You're not struggling with finger placements, rhythm, etc… You can just play and be in the moment.

It does not have to be all practice or all play. To use your analogy, I can use practice to see the map and then explore those areas as I travel.

I think it is a good thing to experiment and play on an instrument. But you need both practice and playing, if you want to improve.

If someone has problems with 8th notes and just continues playing songs, the problem will continue. In fact, the mistakes become more ingrained and then it's a habit to play them wrong. Now, if this same person gets out the metronome and starts slowly and works on getting the 8th note right, they will learn 8th notes.

This site is interesting in the mix of "types" of players. I have spent most of my online time in classical guitar and flamenco guitar forums. Most of the posters on these forums are technically ambitious. By their very nature, these disciplines are about "picking", lots of work in the higher positions, contrapuntal music (music with multiple parts being played on the same instrument), and specialized and regimented strums. By contrast, the majority of folks on this site are focused on very simple music.

I think this is a good thing. Music is not just for pros and wannabe pros. It should be for everyone.

It's also a mistake to think that the only good music is complicated, high on the neck, or very fast. Simple music can also be good music. And sometimes it's not as simple as it appears to the "shredder".

A lot of times the people who are chasing the Jakes and Jimis and Yngvies have a hollow skillset. They may be able to sweep pick or play fast tremolos but not be able to play Happy Birthday. They might know lots of licks but not a single whole song. Worse, they might be missing the whole point and, in their obsession, don't really play music at all or are not really enjoying what they are playing due to physical and mental struggle. Trust me, I have been there.

The "type-A personality" approach can be damaging on so many levels. I feel it comes from a misguided attempt to emulate extremely developed professional virtuosos and what those virtuosos choose to present on recordings and at concerts. Take things slow. Make sure you can play the simple stuff really well, building the foundation before you fumble after advanced techniques. There is even a chance you might find the simple stuff ultimately more satisfying and effective to play. You may be able to play the advanced things and not even want to anymore. Half that stuff is just geeky tips of the hat to fellow music geeks anyway.

None of this is to say that an ambitious person should not practice with diligence, attention, precision, and serious intent. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a mountain climber and wanting to play like James Hill. Just don't forget that, at heart, it's about music. You don't learn fifty advanced techniques sloppily and heartlessly and, at the end of it, add emotion. You start by seeking out beauty in a single chord and build from there.

Cactuswren,

I agree about many of your points, especially playing many notes. I enjoy listening to Ben Webster more than John Coltrane. He's so soulful in his playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JS9WYeUGAo . I like some of John Coltrane early work but have more of Ben Webster's albums.

Technique for technique's sake is not playing. I do not enjoy some of the super technical players but to each his own. You need the chops to sound good.

Also, this topic is not about people only making music with their three chords. People make beautiful music with few chords.

This post is about the "The Virtue of Practice" . So let's get back to the topic.

If I understand rlink correctly, he does not like the idea of practice and would rather just play. I may be misunderstanding him. He seems to think that a person who just plays is going to be a better musician or more musical. This is simply not true.

If you look at famous sculptors and painters, they practiced their techniques. There are no shortcuts in life and learning an instrument well takes work and discipline.

Er, yes perhaps in my pontification, I missed the point I agree that practice is good. I have practiced about 2 hours a day seriously (guitar) for the last 15 years.

Right now, I am gigging a lot (for the summer--our offseason). Three steadies a week plus weddings, corporate events, etc. Two 3-hours and one 4-hour gigs. It is good to put in the time, to play your songs straight through, to jam out, to put on a show.

In no way does it take the place of practice. Only at home can I learn new songs, experiment with arrangements, improve my technique, clean up the fuzzy parts that crop up in your old songs when you just gig them, learn new licks. Things--especially complicated things--get sloppy if you only play them through. I tell my (six-year old daughter) it's like weeding. It sprouts up in the garden and just grows. If you don't attend to it, it becomes a big mess. I would go crazy if all I did was gig and never got to work on things in the practice studio.

JustinJ said:

This post is about the "The Virtue of Practice" . So let's get back to the topic.

If I understand rlink correctly, he does not like the idea of practice and would rather just play. I may be misunderstanding him. He seems to think that a person who just plays is going to be a better musician or more musical.

Click to expand...

No, you do not understand rllink correctly, but at this point, I don't think that you ever will. I'm not sure you want to. So if you are satisfied with what you are doing, that's OK.

Rllink said:

I think that we do a disservice when we fail to recognize the importance of taking the back roads, and experiencing what can be found off the beaten path in route to our destination. I think that it is every bit as important, and every bit as beneficial to the final product, as learning the technical skills. I believe this enough to take exception when is minimized.

Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly. The trick is that people make the opposite mistake, too. They get stuck walking in a circle. Then they complain they can't get anywhere!

I've rarely encountered uke players who are over-focused on technique. This is probably because, being a duffer myself, I mostly play with other duffers. Instead, I hear people bemoan their "lack of talent"... when it has nothing to do with talent. A bit of focused practice, like a glance at a roadmap, can work wonders if you're not satisfied with where you are right now.

Like we've all been saying, balance! As long as you're happy on the journey, that's the important thing. If you're not happy, that's when you need to correct your balance. I've had to correct many times, in both directions. How about you all ... do you tend to lean too far toward obsessive practice, or too far into a rut?

(Not addressed to anyone in particular.) What do you want from your 'uke playing? Virtuosity? Commercial success? Amusing / annoying the grandkids and pets? Relaxing (or ranting) at home? Weekend jams? Occasional busking? An album of photos showing yourself with an 'uke in many exotic locales? Mental-emotional therapy? How and when you practice depends on what you want.

Rllink said:

No, you do not understand rllink correctly, but at this point, I don't think that you ever will. I'm not sure you want to. So if you are satisfied with what you are doing, that's OK.

Click to expand...

I would have been much ruder ....but nicely put ....:biglaugh::stop:

I don't want to 'out' a member (I haven't talked to him about posting this so I will keep his name out of it) but I will use him as a example.

This UU member started playing the uke a little over a year ago for his own enjoyment.
Then he got more serious about disciplined practice and started buying books and watching videos.
His practice regiment varies from day to day and he puts in the time that he can when he can. But I know it is a daily ritual for him.

I have heard this member progress as a player and he does it for himself and no other reason.

Honestly, he blows me away with his playing sometimes. And I enjoy just sitting back and listening to him jam. He also helps me overcome some obstacles in my own playing. That is an added bonus of being a knowledgeable player, you can help others.

What made him a better player?
Practice. Pure and simple. (and also, he does his best to stay off the UU forum)

Just recently I heard him 'work out' the song "Sunshine of Your Love" by Cream while I was chatting with him.
I was amazed by his ability to hit the first chord and then move to the next and then he played through the intro like it was nothing.
I asked him, "When did you learn that?" He said, "I didn't learn it, I just worked it out just now by thinking about the sounds of the chords I knew."
So, on the virtue of practice:
If you do it, you will get better.

Much like my wife's venture into drawing. I bought her a sketch pad, drawing supplies and a book on beginner drawing.
The book clearly states in the first chapter: Buy a calendar and commit to practicing daily for 30 days and you will become at drawing.


I am a teacher and want to be a learner for life.
I never want to stop improving in my teaching skills, my photography skills, my boat-building skills, my parenting skills or my uke skills.
How do I become better at these things. Practicing, trying new things, pushing myself to be better.

Thanks for reading, if you got this far in my post.

Rllink said:

No, you do not understand rllink correctly, but at this point, I don't think that you ever will. I'm not sure you want to. So if you are satisfied with what you are doing, that's OK.

Click to expand...

I think you took me the wrong way. From you analogy, you implied that the person who goes without the map will often times have a deeper understanding. I've taken time out my schedule to understand your point. I've even missed some of my practice writing to you. So I do want to understand your point.

Perhaps, we just misunderstood each other. I say that there is a balance. I enjoy practicing. It's a form of meditation for me. At the same time, I practice so that I can play. I look at them as one thing. It's the yin and yang. I play the uke because I love the uke and music, not for any other reason.

I would like to hear what your problems are with practice.

JustinJ said:

I think you took me the wrong way. From you analogy, you implied that the person who goes without the map will often times have a deeper understanding. I've taken time out my schedule to understand your point. I've even missed some of my practice writing to you. So I do want to understand your point.

Perhaps, we just misunderstood each other. I say that there is a balance. I enjoy practicing. It's a form of meditation for me. At the same time, I practice so that I can play. I look at them as one thing. It's the yin and yang. I play the uke because I love the uke and music, not for any other reason.

I would like to hear what your problems are with practice.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry you missed practice time. I think that you need to go practice, then when you have the time, re-read my posts, because I can not explain it any better. Either that, or just forget it. I can't keep this up, and I'm beginning to regret even starting the thread.

For me, both roads lead to Rome. Focus on technique and theory are important. Focus on experimentation and playing with different rhythms, chord voices, melody runs etc outside of that formal practice is a learning experience too. The former informs the latter and gives greater richness and capacity for one's creativity and individual expression to be more fully realised.

And always remember, whatever your level: If it sounds good it is good.

Rllink said:

I'm sorry you missed practice time. I think that you need to go practice, then when you have the time, re-read my posts, because I can not explain it any better. Either that, or just forget it. I can't keep this up, and I'm beginning to regret even starting the thread.

Click to expand...

For some reason, my computer was kicking up malware from trying to get into the first page of this, so apologies in advance for missing some comments.

But c'mon now. You started this thread to state your thoughts on the "Virtues of Practicing" and then are getting upset when people disagree with you? You used a pretty broad brush to state that most instrumentalists (of which I am one) that practice are shallow players, so naturally there will be some residual kickback from that.

As someone that gets paid to perform, practicing for me is not only required maintenance and upkeep but has a meditative quality as well. I enjoy learning new techniques (and in the day and age of the internet, talking directly with the people that created said techniques), as well as implementing them when playing with others. But again, it's a balance of practice and playing with others.

Remember, a map is no good if you lack the skills to use it. Some of the best stories I have with friends are when we took the road less traveled, but also had the knowledge to pull the map out, get our bearings and get back on course.