Why you shouldn't install a pickup or upload music recorded via a pickup

...because it sounds bad.

There is something rotten in the state of UkeMark--the piezo pickup. It is a habit, a thing, a device, that threatens to steal from this beautiful instrument its primary advantage, its major strength, which is its sweet, charming tone. Because you see, the best ukulele, the Moorest Betterest uKamaKoaPineappleSundayKanileLE ever created will sound, plugged in, will sound worse than any run-of-the-mill import mic'ed up with a $50 USB mic or SM57.

I have spent most of my online time on classical guitar and flamenco guitar forums. I have never even heard a single participant in said forums upload a single thing with a pickup, at least not willingly. Such a thing is simply not done. A quick A-B between a mic'ed guitar and a pickerup'ed guitar quickly shows why. A similar test with a uke will prove that, as a uke is basically a tiny classical or flamenco guitar, the same principle applies.

Yes, I know that Jake and Herb Jr and Brittni and James and all the other young players, even Byron and Benny are "doing it". I am a bit mystified by that myself. You do not see serious players of CG or flamenco playing concerts with pickups. Gigs, yes--in the real world, a pickup is a necessity. But when you are on stage and have some ability to control sound levels, things change, and a using a pickup becomes an unnecessary degradation.

Because even when Jake and James and Brittni play with pickups live, it doesn't sound good. Again, a simple A-B test proves it. No pickup has yet been created that can do more than crudely emulate the beautiful sound of an acoustic ukulele.

Look, I love Jake. What a cool dude. But his instrument sounds about 32% of how good it should sound, simply because of pickup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gJJ3aDif5A

Listen to how bad it sounds when he strums. Not listen to how good you sound when you strum your uke. No, you aren't imagining it, you really do sound better. Let's stop inflicting piezo strumming on the world!

To sum up: If you are gigging often in noisy rooms with terrible acoustics, jet-plane levels of conversation, on noisy stages with drums and bands, by all means, plug that sucker in. But if you are primarily playing at your house or with buddies, save some money and improve the world and do not install a pickup!

That is all.

You do not see serious players of CG or flamenco playing concerts with pickups. Gigs, yes--in the real world, a pickup is a necessity. But when you are on stage and have some ability to control sound levels, things change, and a using a pickup becomes an unnecessary degradation.

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You also don't see terribly many classical guitar players moving around when they play.

I'm afraid we'll have to disagree on this - I don't find anything remotely bad about things recorded while using a piezo pickup. I prefer a transducer (K&K Twinspot) with a preamp ( K&K Pure), but that's my opinion, based on how it sounds not only to me, but to the guy who made my custom built uke.

So why shouldn't you use a pickup or up load music recorded with a pickup?

Only because you don't want to.

I think it sounds just fine.

When I play it's not the pick up that's the problem. :nana:

Icelander53 said:

When I play it's not the pick up that's the problem. :nana:

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Agreed! I can pick up my uke just fine. The trouble starts when I start messing with the strings. ;-P

I have come to really dislike the sound of pickups in acoustic instruments. I quit using the pickups in my guitar and mandolin. My ears hear the same unhappiness CactusWren is talking about coming from great players with great instruments. I'll take the SM57 any day.

Hmm.............................

CactusWren said:

...because it sounds bad....

That is all.

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Thank you for your opinion.

[I removed my previous text that was posted here, because in hindsight, after re-reading what CactusWren originally wrote, once again (and for a 3rd time), but after I already hit Submit, I felt that what I wrote was inappropriate. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers]

Please carry on... :shaka:

Nothing to regret there. What a diplomatic response. I like your style. I don't see how anyone could take offense and the fire will burn bright even if you're not fanning them. Plenty of others will. I'm no expert but when I read the OP I had a feeling there was more to it. Usually when someone is that adamant they don't have all the facts.

I have a D-TAR Timberline multi source.

LOVE IT!


Lot's of headroom, no "quackiness" and very natural sound . . . only louder

OP: sorry you don't like 'em. That's a lot of live acts you won't be enjoying.

Icelander53 said:

Nothing to regret there. What a diplomatic response. I like your style. I don't see how anyone could take offense and the fire will burn bright even if you're not fanning them. Plenty of others will. I'm no expert but when I read the OP I had a feeling there was more to it. Usually when someone is that adamant they don't have all the facts.

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Thank you, but I already modified my post (see above) because I felt that I, was in fact being close-minded and not respecting his opinion.

Please see my updated post above.

However, those folks subscribed to this thread via email will have seen what was written previously.

Well if you say so but that's not what I got from reading it. You made sure you let him know his opinion had value but as stated made further discussion difficult.

Well, not in the business of telling people what they should or shouldn't do, if they like what they are doing or not doing, but I'm admittedly not a fan of pickups on acoustic string instruments either. There's a huge difference between inexpensive and costly pickups, though, and there have been advancements. Contact microphones aren't so bad, either (they are somewhat like pickups), but good ones cost a bundle, like this one (I have their slightly cheaper Basik Pro model, which I like with my kalimbas, but not with the ukuleles). I'd spring for one of those before physically installing a permanent pickup into an expensive ukulele.

I do object to the comparison of a SM57 to a $50 USB microphone, however! The SM57 is an unusually good mic for its price, easily beating much more expensive ones. Certainly never seen a $50 USB one coming even close!

Wow Miguel, you are a true professional and I'm glad to see you on our forum. I know where you're coming from and I agree pickups don't sound as good as microphones but as you said, many of the performances require pickups. However, most time I listen to music for enjoyment and to be entertained. No matter what amplification you use, a soulful artist will be able to portray his or her passion. Finally, most of us don't have trained ears so might not hear what you hear.

I have a friend who works on many live tv shows and his wife complains they can't enjoy musicals since he's noticing all the technical aspects to make the sound better. Sometimes, it's good to stop and smell the roses or just enjoy the music.

nongdam said:

Wow Miguel, you are a true professional and I'm glad to see you on our forum. I know where you're coming from and I agree pickups don't sound as good as microphones but as you said, many of the performances require pickups. However, most time I listen to music for enjoyment and to be entertained. No matter what amplification you use, a soulful artist will be able to portray his or her passion. Finally, most of us don't have trained ears so might not hear what you hear.

I have a friend who works on many live tv shows and his wife complains they can't enjoy musicals since he's noticing all the technical aspects to make the sound better. Sometimes, it's good to stop and smell the roses or just enjoy the music.

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^Badabing! Bad live sound sucks. But it's only one part of the picture. Unless it's distractingly bad (which can and does happen with crappy pickups), not many people are going to notice. In a perfect world, people would actually listen to every note. But while one guy is focusing on not spilling his beer on the dancefloor and the next is checking out that one chick (who is wondering why her friend never texted back), I take the opportunity to plug in and assume that they won't notice the difference between a mic and a decent pickup. When in doubt - star power!!!!

Sort of a side note, when I recorded my EP I decided to use a DI track (LR Baggs Five-O for the pickup) as well as the mic (a Neumann KM184). The mic was always higher in the mix because it did sound better and capture more of the "true" sound, but using both allowed for a fuller tone that the mic alone wouldn't capture. Only one - the last - track got only the mic (for some reason or another) and you can tell. I like the combo best.

In 15 years of playing live I would always go acoustic through a mic than with a pickup and a DI when I had the choice. So yeah, I agree with CactusW. You will never get the true sound of an acoustic instrument by virtue of a pick up. It's that simple. Give intimate, raw and real over synthetic any day.

Even though I prefer acoustic recording, I have done many videos miking the sound of the room with an amplified ukulele and if you use quality speakers on your end (which is a big factor when comparing tones on you computer) I think you’ll find that the sound is not bad at all. In fact IMO it can sound very beautiful. Here is one of many examples-



I heard David Grisman play live with only a mic and it sounded great. But he knew how to use it, and his sound man was awesome, and it was a vintage Neumann KM84, not a SM57. If you are gonna dog on pickups at least use a true acoustic mic. The SM57 is very colored as is any $50 USB mic. If you’re seeking true acoustic tone to put through speakers or record with then you can’t settle for that!

His point, though, was that a SM57 will provide better recordings than the typical piezo pickup, not that it is the ideal microphone to record acoustic instruments with. It is more suitable than the average $50 USB microphone. The KM84 (which costs around $1200 more than a SM57) won't produce the best recordings either if the room is not suitable, and may well be a worse choice than the SM57 depending on the environment.

I don't have a problem with piezo pickup music I hear, and I've been a road manager for a singing group, stage director, and also a musician (for 50 years). When I saw Jake perform in Ventura over a year ago, I thought he sounded great, but I actually felt that the bass player was too loud and boomy.

I, myself, have never cared for the sound when pick ups are used. I understand that at times it is a necessity, but it makes quite a difference in the pleasure of hearing a performer play live for me.

Mivo said:

His point, though, was that a SM57 will provide better recordings than the typical piezo pickup.

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Well that’s true depending on what are we talking about here. Plugging directly into an interface? Yeah! But the Jake performance he is presenting as proof that great ukulele players don't sound good live because of their piezo is not even recorded well.

I’ve heard Jake's live tone sounding everywhere from not so great to amazing, and it really just depends on the room, the PA, the sound guy and those things. At Blaisdell concert hall his sound was glorious. An amplified uke with a piezo can sound great live if the sound and crew are great. And if it sounds great, then it can be recorded that way with the right setup. SM57’s wouldn’t do it but with the right setup you will hear close to what the listener did in the room and it would sound sweet.

But if Jake used an SM57 instead of a pickup would he have a better live sound? I don’t think so. I used to do live sound for an ukulele show we had once a week along with a weekly open mic night and we had a great sound system and board, but ukes are just hard to get a good sound from when you solely mic in a live setting with speakers and monitors turned up. They are much punchier than guitars with their focused frequency range. In contrast, a good pickup through a good DI into a good sound system with a great player will sound awesome!

I respect Miguel and everyone else here and don’t mean any friction. I agree that mics sound best for recording though I think a combo mic/pickup can sound good too when done right. There's a lot of factors. Brad chose to cut in some of the Baggs on his album for a reason. When Jake recorded his solo albums it was only miked but it’s a 4 high end mic setup and they are running into the best preamps and studio hardware. Live is another beast. He chooses to plugin because it’s the best option.