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resoman
10-28-2015, 08:56 AM
Have any of y'all tried this General Finishes Waterbase Lacquer that StewMac is touting? I'm REALLY wanting to get away from the standard lacquer but after my last experience with changing finishes I'm a little gun shy. I'm getting really great finishes with the Cardinal but I'd like to start using something "friendlier".
http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Finishing_Supplies/General_Finishes_Waterbase_Topcoat.html
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Beau Hannam Ukuleles
10-28-2015, 11:16 AM
John Greven uses it on his guitars and gets decent results (so i've heard).

I'd like to try it to for health reasons.

sequoia
10-28-2015, 04:57 PM
I'd like to try it to for health reasons.

I hear you Beau. After getting a respirator failure with nitro cellulose the other day, I'm done with it... Yes, I've used both the SMD product and the LMI waterbased lacquers. I've gotten good results with the SMD stuff. Not so much with the LMI prep although maybe it was just me. The finish goes on well and finishes out good with a nice gloss. Good hardness when it finally cures out. There might be issues with sweat on the neck areas with a lot of playing. However, it just doesn't pop the grain like nitro or shellac based lacquers in my opinion. It does have an odor however and it does gas off...something although it is much less toxic. Like all of these different finishing techniques and media, there are pluses and minuses. Pick your poison.

Pictures below of shellac on the left, SMD water based lacquer on the right. The photo doesn't show it well, but the waterbase is much less "warmer" and didn't pop the grain as well. I think this is because the penetration was less. Some wash coats of dilute shellac before applying the waterbase might fix this. I don't know. The eternal search for the perfect lacquer finish continues...

84763

Beau Hannam Ukuleles
10-29-2015, 03:49 AM
I've heard some water based finishes have a blueish tint- not sure if that are older formulas or the current ones.

A way to combat this would be to do a washcoat of tinted shellac, the opposite colour of blue, which is orange, ie normal amber shellac.- just to add a bit of warmth etc.

Frankly, my honest opinion of finish is that if people are worrying about a finish, they are not playing enough.

Of course, it is different for collectors and i understand that, but for all the other people, finish really shouldn't be an issue.

resoman
10-29-2015, 05:10 AM
I'm gonna order up some of the General waterbase today and give it a try. I need to build one for myself anyways and that would be a pretty good test as I'm pretty hard on instruments! Also, it's just what is it gonna look like in 20 years
Beau, It's the health thing and the enviro stuff that has me thinkin in this direction

sequoia
10-29-2015, 06:12 AM
I've heard some water based finishes have a blueish tint- not sure if that are older formulas or the current ones.

No, no blue tint. That was the older stuff.

Beau Hannam Ukuleles
10-29-2015, 07:27 AM
No, no blue tint. That was the older stuff.

Good to know!!!!!!!

I think a mate of mine special orders the General waterbase finish that stewmac sell through homedepo and pays less.- but its per gallon.

oud272
10-29-2015, 10:43 AM
Good to know!!!!!!!

I think a mate of mine special orders the General waterbase finish that stewmac sell through homedepo and pays less.- but its per gallon.

Rockler sells it, maybe there is a store local to you.

Dave

little timber
11-05-2015, 10:07 AM
I had pretty good results with KTM9, no noticeable blue tint. the problem I had with that finish is that it seems to have a rather short shelf life- I had a can of it that spanned 2 builds, the first turned out great, the second, about 4 months later had some pretty bad adhesion problems to both the pore-filled Spanish cedar neck as well as the ABS binding. I hadn't sprayed it over abs previously and thought that was the issue but about a week after final buffing, a big bubble appeared on the neck.

dustartist
11-06-2015, 07:01 PM
I have used the EnduroVar from General Finishes on some cabinets. Definitely no blue tint, if anything it is a little yellow. Have not tried it on instruments. Looks great on cabinets and is very durable.

resoman
11-07-2015, 02:41 AM
I got this stuff in a couple of days ago. One thing, on the can is says 1 to 2 hrs drying time. That's a long time when you don't have a dedicated spray booth. I'll try it and see

chuck in ny
11-07-2015, 03:34 AM
the standard way volume woodworkers have handled the issue is with UV coatings. i assume at kanilea that they have a hand held UV light that they hold up to the freshly sprayed instrument. same procedure they used on my fillings at the dentist btw, mini little light they stuck in my mouth and effected curing the resin. for a large outfit the equipment is costly. in a casual way for small pieces the light is probably quite affordable. what you really have in your way are material costs, whether you need both a primer and a topcoat, whether they are responsive to small volume guys and package gallons or only fives which you couldn't use up before they're expired and it's too much to buy at one time anyway. problematic but if you can get this together you have the spray process sans smell and good sexy material too including polyesters all the good resins and none of the solvents.
the waterborne coatings continue to improve. i used benjamin moore 'stays clear' on my floors and it is drop dead gorgeous and indistinguishable from a good lacquer coating in a brush job. they continue to struggle getting excellence to mix in water.