One man's 6th is another man's minor 7th.

P

pluck

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
320
Reaction score
1
I finally had read it too many times: "Whether it's C6 or Am7 depends on the context." Finally I had to figure out what this "context" is that everyone keeps talking about. I did an internet search and found surprisingly little about this but what I did find suggested that the difference between a C6 and an Am7 is determined by the lowest note in the inversion (assuming that the lowest note is either C or A, if it's E or G then all bets are off). If this is true then in normal music theory "context" has nothing to do with it. By this definition the 4 open strings on the uke would be a C6 and not an Am7 regardless of context.

Now I understand that we are talking about the Ukulele here and sometimes normal music theory goes out the window (see Hawaiian D7). Given the limitations of the uke it makes sense we should use the names C6 and Am7 interchangeably but I'm no closer to understanding this idea of "context" than I was before.

At this point I'm inclined to think that the naming of the chord either C6 or Am7 is pretty arbitrary but if you can explain to me what is meant by "context" I'm all ears, um, eyes. Thanks.
 
We had a heated discussion about this subject a long time ago. I got lambasted, but I still believe that C6 and Am7 are the same sound. However, in my opinion nothing was ever settled and never admitted defeat. I don't use m7 s!

Maybe you can find the thread in "Search Thread". I wash my hands of it.

What ever happened to ubulele? I miss his pages long explanations. :eek:ld:
 
It depends on what the bass player is playing.
 
I'm a min7th guy myself. 6ths are an abomination.
 
It's a C6, and you could also play an Am7 like that if you don't care about the root. Lazy man's Am7.
 
Rodney. said:
It's a C6, and you could also play an Am7 like that if you don't care about the root. Lazy man's Am7.
Click to expand...

That makes sense based on what I read. I guess to play a true Am7 you would need a low G or play pretty far up the neck.
 
Rodney. said:
It's a C6, and you could also play an Am7 like that if you don't care about the root. Lazy man's Am7.
Click to expand...
I agree, it's easiest to see an ukulele tuned gCEA and played with all open strings as a C6 first. With a little creative thinking, then it can be seen as an Am7. With more creative thinking, I suppose an Em sus4 dim6(?) or a G6 sus4 add9(?). I stand to be corrected.
 
What about 2433 ? Is that C6 or Am7? hehe

Petey
 
pluck said:
I don't think I can afford a bass player.
Click to expand...

When you analyze an object "in context", it implies there is something else surrounding the object in question. This is common in normal language when we say things like "you took that phrase I said out of context and tried to make it mean something I didn't mean if you have quoted the whole thing". Music is also a language so the the same thing applies.

Let's take your open strings reentrant chord with the notes C,E,G, and A (low to high). If you play this by itself, there is no context, and it must be called C6. It can't be called Am7. You can't really even call it Am7/C since A,E,G do not make Am7.

Now let's add some context. Say you have a bass player (or piano or singer, whatever) playing a low A note. Now you and the bass player *together* are playing an Am7 chord.

I could probably go on, but that's what "in context" means.
 
Another thing to keep in mind here - everything I just said is true in musical theory. Musical practice is quite a different matter and full of half truths and shortcuts. That's why we call 2000 Am instead of Am/C and why 2020 is D7 instead of "three fourths of a real D7 cuz we can't play the C and D on the same string".
 
I thought the context would be what key the piece of music is in. I mean, a Ab note could equally well be a G#, a C#= Db etc, depends on the key as to what it is called & how it is written. I therefore assumed it'd be the same with chords.
 
The way I understand it is that C6 is a variation on a C major chord. An Am7 is a variation on an Am chord.

A C6 is a tonic chord, the chord you come back to to complete a phrase, the chord that is the home base.

In the key of C, an Am is the relative minor. You move back to the C from the Am.

Try playing 0003/0000/2010/0212. C Am7 F G7


Then, 5757/5453/2013/4535. C6 Am F G7

You should here how Am7 functions as a relative minor and C6 as a tonic in these contexts.
 
all about the key... same notes (names at least) but different voicing...


playing something in Am vs C Maj is very very different sounding... even if you are using the same notes... all part of the cord progression play a I>IV>V progression in each key one is the 1 chord of the C scale with the 6th note of the scale put on top and the other is the 1 chord of the Am Scale with a 7th on top... at least on keys... but if voicing for vocals or keys or strings (or because of lack of strings... only having 4 means you're going to be making lots of voicing compromises anyway) means it'll sound more smoothly with a different voicing it's still an Am7 or a C6 based on they key... no different than a Gb when playing in Db... it is always a Gb, even though it's pitch is the same as a F#... sure you could notate it differently but it would be part of the wrong progression for the music although it would sound right...

side note... wow it's been a long time since I've though anything about my music theory lol... wish I studied harder and could remember more...
 
This is pretty helpful. Thanks to all. I'm picking up that "context" may have something to do with the movement from chord to chord. When I play C --> Am7 I can hear the movement on the first string from C to A. When I play G7 --> C6 I pick up the movement on the 3rd string from D to C. So with a C6 the progression may not be completely resolved but the movement from the D to C in the progression gives you a sense of resolution.

I guess another way of looking at it would be that "context" refers to where the chord lies within a musical phrase.

Thanks for all the input.
 
"I guess another way of looking at it would be that "context" refers to where the chord lies within a musical phrase"

Yes!!! Music is a continuum of sound, a beautiful river of moving energy.
Am7 and C6 sound the same, but the "context" is where they fit into the flow - not how they sound or are named in isolation.
The name the same chord is given contains clues to the nature of the "flow" of the music around it.... So - in isolation - what a chord is called doesn't matter, but relative to what's happening before and after, it is an encryption of the alchemy....
Beautiful, isn't it? Poetry in motion...
 
I can't stand it any more! C'mon people, if one plays a Uke all strings open, it will sound a C6, but if he/she plays a Uke with all strings open and calls the sound Am7, it will sound the same sound as before--C6.

Context or not, an open C6 is an open C6 is an open C6, There's no such thing as an open Am7 on the Uke!

Record an open C6, and then record an open "Am7". Do you hear two different sounds? If so, your recorder's broken.

I rest my case. Down with ukulele Xm7s!! :eek:ld:
 
Down Up Dick said:
I can't stand it any more! C'mon people, if one plays a Uke all strings open, it will sound a C6, but if he/she plays a Uke with all strings open and calls the sound Am7, it will sound the same sound as before--C6.

Context or not, an open C6 is an open C6 is an open C6, There's no such thing as an open Am7 on the Uke!
Click to expand...

On reentrant gCEA the correct Am7 in the first position would be (counted from the first string) 7 8 9 12. So we cheat. Or avoid playing it.
 
Jim that's a good explanation. Context does matter. Music is a language, and theory is its grammar. You could say that the notes in G A B C D E F# G or you could say they are G A B C D E Gb G, but the first is proper grammar and the second is not. It's the same with chords, only more complicated. Often a word means more than one thing, and context gives it meaning. On the other hand often two words sort of mean the same thing, but choosing the right one gives a slightly different meaning. Having a common grammar and vocabulary enables communication and sharing. It's the same for music. It doesn't matter what you think in your head, but it does matter when you write music down or communicate with another musician whether you say Am7 or C6. And, depending upon the voicing of the chord it may make a difference how it sounds musically within the piece (context).

I don't "get" why people are so put off by music theory and its concepts. It's all pretty much just counting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
The Hawaiian steel guitar changed American music. Can one man keep that tradition alive?
Replies
9
Views
312
Canada Jim
Canada Jim
J
Middle-aged man picks up a ukulele and gets hooked
Replies
14
Views
378
PTRarch.
PTRarch.
hoji
poor man's thickness sander
Replies
4
Views
423
David Higham
D
scrambled_eggs
Piano Man ukulele fingerstyle solo
Replies
2
Views
193
ploverwing
ploverwing
Eggs_n_Ham
Tabs/Chords Working on "Old Man" by Neil Young, tabbed by uketabs.com but there's a Dm9 chord...whut the heck...
Replies
6
Views
477
merlin666
M
Top Bottom